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Forum LockedWould you start creation or not?

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Poll Question: Would you bring everything into existence
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
16 [66.67%]
8 [33.33%]
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Decebal View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Decebal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2006 at 16:54

One question which desrves to be asked is whether suffering and cruelty are really just human constructs. Not that I'm defending organized religion (which I'm not), but I'm just playing devil's advocate (no pun intended)...

Let's pretend that the world is indeed created by some sort of divinity who is omnipotent and omniscient. To this divinity, suffering and cruelty are just human interpretations of phenomenona which in themselves may or may not (probably the latter) carry any moral meaning. In fact, divine morality may be inexistent (only a human construct), or so different for an omnipotent and omniscient divinity that it is unrecognizable and uncomprehensible to us as humans.

To me, the true tragedy of creation (if that is indeed what happened), is that the creator divinity for all intents and purposes does not care, at least not in the way we humans understand.
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Cezar View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cezar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2006 at 06:16
Originally posted by Decebal Decebal wrote:

One question which desrves to be asked is whether suffering and cruelty are really just human constructs. Not that I'm defending organized religion (which I'm not), but I'm just playing devil's advocate (no pun intended)...

Let's pretend that the world is indeed created by some sort of divinity who is omnipotent and omniscient. To this divinity, suffering and cruelty are just human interpretations of phenomenona which in themselves may or may not (probably the latter) carry any moral meaning. In fact, divine morality may be inexistent (only a human construct), or so different for an omnipotent and omniscient divinity that it is unrecognizable and uncomprehensible to us as humans.

To me, the true tragedy of creation (if that is indeed what happened), is that the creator divinity for all intents and purposes does not care, at least not in the way we humans understand.
 
A perfect creation would be boring. If it's perfect, there would be nothing happening to make it entertaining. But if you make poor and wealthy, sick and healthy, generous and greedy, and so on, you certainly are in for a good show. Is there any fun in watching a Star Wars without Vader or Palpatine? Star Wars Universe is some kind of creation. And it is perfect for not being perfect.
There is no tragedy of the creation Decebal, it's just the fun of it and the envy of us humans that we can't do anything about it.
BTW if there is no creation, therefore infinity, where did this ∞ came fromConfused?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BMC21113 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2006 at 04:06

-This is a very difficult question, so where to begin........

-Let us first ask the question of "why" would/should have the creation taken place? I believe the answer to this question is to simply experience. An omnipotent God, one whom transcends space, time, matter, energy, anything and everything imaginable and unimaginable for the human mind, creates to experience itself. From the wonders of  gravity and a newly forming star to a beautiful rendition of Beethoven's "Moonlight Sonata," God would experience that within the infinite potential that is God rather than that which could never be if not for God. We as humans are part of that creation and therefore are one with the creator. It is unimaginable to the human mind, the existence of something which is beyond existence. That which is everything and nothing all in the same. As the creation experiences, the creator shares the experience because the creator IS the experience. I use the term "experience" here very broadly; that is, experience not only refers to experience in a human sense but in a universal sense. Imagine all dimensions (perhaps many more than we are aware of) as a mere extension to the infinite. Think of wonders here on Earth. What would it be like to experience a thunderstorm as the thunderstorm? The pure adrenaline as a base jumper makes a leap? The energy of the crowd when a winning home run is belted to win a World Series. Imagine experiencing everything that is with no limits or boundaries. Knowing everything and experiencing everything that was, is, or will be........an infinite wisdom that underlies existence and non-existence. From this viewpoint, in the simplest of terms, we have to conclude that existence is much more exciting than non-existence.....
 
-Now, given all of the suffering throughout the existence of humanity, should the creation have taken place? I believe the answer is yes. One of the greatest gifts that God could give to man would be that of free-will. This means we have the power and understanding to make decisions and live as you wish to live. A God which transcends anything and everything already knows what you are going to do, but you always have and will have the free-will to make your own choices.
 
-These are just some basic ideas to generate some more thought on the topic........
 
-This may be a good time to recommend a very good book. It is entitled "The God Theory" by Bernard Haisch. This book is well written and informative and serves as a great reference point for those who may be looking for something beyond organized religion and strict reductionist science and gives us another way of attempting to answer these questions.
"To be prepared for war is one of the most effective means of preserving peace"-George Washington
"The art of war is, in the last result, the art of keeping one's freedom of action."-Xenophon
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Serge L View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Serge L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2006 at 09:46
I would have created the world, but different from what it actually is.
Let
Let's say I would have took the care to be sure all creatures would have liked their lives.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Philosopher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Sep-2006 at 16:52
well, first of all, when you think of it, asking if you would have started creation is a somewhat ridiculous question. God trancends all time and space, thus, He knew that we would mess up. Obviously, if God trancends all time, He knows what is going to happen next right? So, if God himself, who knows all, and is the wisest in existence, and is in Him is all understanding still created us, knowing all of the strife that would come of our creation, all the death, famine, and the eventual destruction of his perfect creation. But, living in a perfect creation, the way it was meant to be by God, would not have been boring. We all would not care about all the things that we consider "fun" today, thus, would we not have a different definition of all that we know of today? So, if God still created us all, knowing what would happen, how can we, as mere humans, say that we would not then??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Philosopher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Sep-2006 at 16:53
also, Serge L, if everything was perfect, would not every creature enjoy their lives??   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivek Sharma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Sep-2006 at 00:48
God would definitely invent us, because he needs something to play around, to pass his time & something to make him feel great. Otherwise who would worship him ?
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The Philosopher View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Philosopher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Sep-2006 at 16:49
The reason God created us wasn't because He was bored, far from it, He could have all the fun He wanted in Heaven. He created us because He wanted to be worshiped. but, then again, He created the angels before us, and do not the angels also worship God??    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Sep-2006 at 17:42
If I had a baby, and raised the baby to worship me. By the time it was 3 years old, I'd be surrounded by social workers, on criminal charges and probably make the sunday papers.


Edited by Paul - 12-Sep-2006 at 17:43
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The Philosopher View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Philosopher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Sep-2006 at 16:54
yes probably......
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