History Community ~ All Empires Homepage


This is the Archive on WORLD Historia, the old original forum.

 You cannot post here - you can only read.

 

Here is the link to the new forum:

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Calendar   Register Register  Login Login


Forum LockedWould an invasion of Japan worked?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Illuminati View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 08-Dec-2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 949
Post Options Post Options   Quote Illuminati Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Would an invasion of Japan worked?
    Posted: 26-Feb-2006 at 23:24
Supposing that the atomic bombs had not been dropped. Would a land invasion of the japanese home islands been effective. We saw how ferociously the Japanese fought on Saipan. One can only imagine what it would avhe been like on the three big Islands fighting millions more soldiers and civilians. Not to mention the tens of thousans of Kamikaze pilots.

I'm not 100% convinced an Allied invasion would have worked.  The Japanese would have fought ferociously for every inch of land. Tokyo would probably have been comparable to Stalingrad in terms of ferocity of combat and the number of casualties. Would the Allies have been willing to accept that amount of casualties?


Edited by Illuminati
Back to Top
Constantine XI View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar
Lord of Hut River Province Principality

Joined: 01-May-2005
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5714
Post Options Post Options   Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Feb-2006 at 00:56
Considering that this was a total war, the Allies would have had to have destroyed every last bit of Japanese resistance. If that meant lots of dead "Japs", the Allied civilian population had no scruples about it. 13% of Americans were in favour of wiping out the Japanese race completely according to one wartime poll, regardless of whether Japan surrendered now or never. Anti-Japanese propaganda had been dehumanising the Pacific enemy for years and the Allied military would have done whatever it took to achieve absolute victory. Today's political reservations about civilians casualties would not have applied, the Allied civilian bloc would have given their military all the backing it needed to achieve victory, preferably total victory.

So to answer your question, yes.
It is not the challenges a people face which define who they are, but rather the way in which they respond to those challenges.

Back to Top
Maljkovic View Drop Down
Earl
Earl
Avatar

Joined: 27-Feb-2006
Location: Croatia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 294
Post Options Post Options   Quote Maljkovic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Feb-2006 at 09:29

Japan did not surrender because of the A-bombs, it was because their army was defeated in Mandjuria by the Red Army. The consensus in the Jap high command was that the Americans didn't have enough A-bombs in stock to level Japan, which thank god was true. By the time the A-bombs were droped, Japan had lost both it's military and commerical ships to American subs and their airforce was capable only of kamikaze attacks. Their cities were already destroyed with napalm.

Japanesee war industry was dependant on resouces that were non-existant in Japan, like sulfur and oil. The invasion would have been unnecesary, because a simple neval blocade would have done the trick. 

Back to Top
Laelius View Drop Down
Consul
Consul


Joined: 22-Oct-2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 354
Post Options Post Options   Quote Laelius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Feb-2006 at 11:27

Japan did not surrender because of the A-bombs, it was because their army was defeated in Mandjuria by the Red Army. The consensus in the Jap high command was that the Americans didn't have enough A-bombs in stock to level Japan, which thank god was true.

 

Utter nonsense, the Japanese had been steadily allocating supplies and men from their forces in Manchuria to their home island.  Even after the defeat of the their forces in Manchuria the Japanese still had 5 million soldiers and around 18,000 aircraft.  They had also begun to mobilize the entirety of their civilian population arming them with whatever implements they could find.  Just ask Tobodei, he recounts his grandmother being trained to fight with a bamboo stick. 

Back to Top
Maljkovic View Drop Down
Earl
Earl
Avatar

Joined: 27-Feb-2006
Location: Croatia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 294
Post Options Post Options   Quote Maljkovic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Feb-2006 at 12:04
Originally posted by Laelius

Japan did not surrender because of the A-bombs, it was because their army was defeated in Mandjuria by the Red Army. The consensus in the Jap high command was that the Americans didn't have enough A-bombs in stock to level Japan, which thank god was true.

 

Utter nonsense, the Japanese had been steadily allocating supplies and men from their forces in Manchuria to their home island.  Even after the defeat of the their forces in Manchuria the Japanese still had 5 million soldiers and around 18,000 aircraft.  They had also begun to mobilize the entirety of their civilian population arming them with whatever implements they could find.  Just ask Tobodei, he recounts his grandmother being trained to fight with a bamboo stick. 

18.000 totally useless aircrafts, since they had run out of fuel. Last oil field under Japaneese control were in Manchuria. The training you speak of was a propaganda stunt, high command had proposed a peace treaty, even before the invasion of Saipan. Only condition the Japaneese wouldn't of agree to was the abdication of Hirohito. Americans refused and needlesly continued the war for another several months.  

Back to Top
Illuminati View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 08-Dec-2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 949
Post Options Post Options   Quote Illuminati Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Feb-2006 at 12:54
Originally posted by Maljkovic

Originally posted by Laelius

Japan did not surrender because of the A-bombs, it was because their army was defeated in Mandjuria by the Red Army. The consensus in the Jap high command was that the Americans didn't have enough A-bombs in stock to level Japan, which thank god was true.

 

Utter nonsense, the Japanese had been steadily allocating supplies and men from their forces in Manchuria to their home island.  Even after the defeat of the their forces in Manchuria the Japanese still had 5 million soldiers and around 18,000 aircraft.  They had also begun to mobilize the entirety of their civilian population arming them with whatever implements they could find.  Just ask Tobodei, he recounts his grandmother being trained to fight with a bamboo stick. 

18.000 totally useless aircrafts, since they had run out of fuel. Last oil field under Japaneese control were in Manchuria. The training you speak of was a propaganda stunt, high command had proposed a peace treaty, even before the invasion of Saipan. Only condition the Japaneese wouldn't of agree to was the abdication of Hirohito. Americans refused and needlesly continued the war for another several months.  



yeah, you really have no clue as to the situation in japan. Hirohito was the one who wanted to surrender. The Japanese military refused to, and deadlocked the government. The japanese were not out of fuel as you claim. They had stockpiles in Japan for exactly this reason. They had enough fuel to power their tens of thousands of kamikaze pilots. Women and childred were being armed to fend off a possible invasion. The Japanese showed NO signs of surrender until the A-Bombs showed them that they could never win. The Japanese high command was not going to surrender, and Hirohito powerless to do much of anything at this point, let alone order a surrender.


Edited by Illuminati
Back to Top
Maljkovic View Drop Down
Earl
Earl
Avatar

Joined: 27-Feb-2006
Location: Croatia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 294
Post Options Post Options   Quote Maljkovic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Feb-2006 at 13:21
Originally posted by Illuminati

Originally posted by Maljkovic

Originally posted by Laelius

Japan did not surrender because of the A-bombs, it was because their army was defeated in Mandjuria by the Red Army. The consensus in the Jap high command was that the Americans didn't have enough A-bombs in stock to level Japan, which thank god was true.

Utter nonsense, the Japanese had been steadily allocating supplies and men from their forces in Manchuria to their home island.  Even after the defeat of the their forces in Manchuria the Japanese still had 5 million soldiers and around 18,000 aircraft.  They had also begun to mobilize the entirety of their civilian population arming them with whatever implements they could find.  Just ask Tobodei, he recounts his grandmother being trained to fight with a bamboo stick. 

18.000 totally useless aircrafts, since they had run out of fuel. Last oil field under Japaneese control were in Manchuria. The training you speak of was a propaganda stunt, high command had proposed a peace treaty, even before the invasion of Saipan. Only condition the Japaneese wouldn't of agree to was the abdication of Hirohito. Americans refused and needlesly continued the war for another several months.  



yeah, you really have no clue as to the situation in japan. Hirohito was the one who wanted to surrender. The Japanese military refused to, and deadlocked the government. The japanese were not out of fuel as you claim. They had stockpiles in Japan for exactly this reason. They had enough fuel to power their tens of thousands of kamikaze pilots. Women and childred were being armed to fend off a possible invasion. The Japanese showed NO signs of surrender until the A-Bombs showed them that they could never win. The Japanese high command was not going to surrender, and Hirohito powerless to do much of anything at this point, let alone order a surrender.

Hirohito wanted to surrender and abdicate, but the high command didn't let him, that's true. But it didn't take the A-bomb for the high command to realise that the war was lost. They knew that since the American invasion of the Philliphines. What do you think Leyte was all about?

And the "invasion preparations" were nothing more then a propaganda stunt to boost morale of the populace and intimidate the allies. 

Back to Top
Illuminati View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 08-Dec-2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 949
Post Options Post Options   Quote Illuminati Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Feb-2006 at 13:37
The invasion preparations were as real as anything. The Japanese were not going to surrender. A naval blockade would not ahve done anything. Allies soldiers were already getting orders to possibly jump on Tokyo. The Russians were already attacking Japanese positions in teh north, and were not going to stop.

I'm not sure you can jsut shrug off the thousands of Kamikaze pilots and mass arming and training of Japanese civilians as "propaganda"

I think you underestamate the japanese. Losing territories that they had taken over the last decasde was one thing. Allowing an invasion of the Japanese HOME islands was completely different. This is very evident when looking at the Battle for Saipan. The Japanese fought more ferociously on Saipan than they had anywhere else. The Japanese were not going to surrender their home Islands without a fight. The A-bomb changed that. And the Allies were not going to accept a treaty that allowed Japan to get off to easily, and remain in charge fo their home islands. Not after what Japan had done.
Back to Top
Maljkovic View Drop Down
Earl
Earl
Avatar

Joined: 27-Feb-2006
Location: Croatia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 294
Post Options Post Options   Quote Maljkovic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Feb-2006 at 14:23
This debate is pointless. Your not going to budge, and neither am I. BTW, is that McArthur on your avatar?
Back to Top
Illuminati View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 08-Dec-2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 949
Post Options Post Options   Quote Illuminati Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Feb-2006 at 14:37
lol, some debates do lead nowhere

It's Patton in my avatar
Back to Top
Killabee View Drop Down
Earl
Earl


Joined: 01-Feb-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 274
Post Options Post Options   Quote Killabee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Mar-2006 at 15:51

Illuminati, Can I invite you to join the debate in imdb.com?  I wholeheartedly agree with what you said in the above and I need  more able body  like you to join me. There is one America-phobe fanatic  name "Gyaldhart" bashing US for dropping atomic bombs to end war. He claimed that there are many evidence showed Japan was about to surrender prior to the atomic bombing so he said that purpose of dropping atomic bomb was to show off to the world ,especially the Russian and the beginning of  American imperialism. He also pointed finger at US for murdering hundred of thousands "innocent"civilian.

Here is what he wrote:

"Germany and Italy had already fallen by the time the bombs were dropped in Japan. It was a matter of time that Japan would give up as well. The atomic Bombs were NOT necessary, it was just plain sadistic and there is a name to describe that: Genocide.

Genocide just like the one that germans made against jews.

USA dropped the bombs mainly to demonstrate that they were ready to become the next big empire on earth, NOT because it was necessary. After the war, there were 2 main powers"

Here is the link:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0397535/board/thread/36731418?d= 36731418#36731418

Thanks



Edited by Killabee
Back to Top
pogy366 View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard


Joined: 01-Mar-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 28
Post Options Post Options   Quote pogy366 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Mar-2006 at 16:52
... there's no doubt in my mind that the Allies, the US in particular who were fueled by revenge, would have invaded the Japanese Home Islands and made one hell of a fight to say the least.

But even in light of how the US, as a whole, felt about Japan, would (and could) the country been able to withstand the heavy loss of American lives? The fight for the Japanese Home Islands would have taken time, a lot of time and every inch would have been payed for in blood. Think of Saipan and Okinawa combined, then multiply that by like a 100.

Could the US stomach a protracted and costly battle like that? The US has always placed a great deal of emphasis on the individual life of each soldier, a concept that has become even stronger since WWII. But even in WWII, was there a limit to what the US could actually stomach?

On the other side of it, the invasion of Japan would have been the bread and butter of the Soviets: a bloody, knock-down-drag-out fight.

The preperations of the Japanese people was not propaganda. They were prepared and would have put up one hell of a serious resistance. How can you question a culture where soldiers remained in the hills and jungles, refusing to surrender until the 1960's and 1970's?

IMO, i think the invasion would have succeeded, but not by a straight up military victory. I think it would have been a hard fight combined with blockade.



"Better to be a geek than an idiot. "
Back to Top
Genghis View Drop Down
Sultan
Sultan
Avatar

Joined: 02-Aug-2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2657
Post Options Post Options   Quote Genghis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Mar-2006 at 19:46
Even though the Japanese would have fought hard, there's no way they could have succeeded.  They were completely blockaded, their industry had been wrecked, there would have been mass starvation after the war.  Regardless of their fanaticism, any sort of organized defence would have collapsed and the big American inkblot would have spread across Japan.  In some places, the only defence was civilans with wooden sticks and suicide bombs.  Also, don't forget the American lust for revenge, as someone pointed out, one in eight wanted a genocide of the entire Japanese race, I'm sure enough people would have then wanted to at least conquer their homeland.
Member of IAEA
Back to Top
Maljkovic View Drop Down
Earl
Earl
Avatar

Joined: 27-Feb-2006
Location: Croatia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 294
Post Options Post Options   Quote Maljkovic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Mar-2006 at 06:54
Another thing, the bombing of Japan was not as extensive as it was of Germany. A longer campaign of bombing, say from bases in Korea would have gone a long way in softening their defences.
Back to Top
BlindOne View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar

Joined: 21-Aug-2005
Location: Greece
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 120
Post Options Post Options   Quote BlindOne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Mar-2006 at 09:44

Originally posted by Genghis

Even though the Japanese would have fought hard, there's no way they could have succeeded.  They were completely blockaded, their industry had been wrecked, there would have been mass starvation after the war.  Regardless of their fanaticism, any sort of organized defence would have collapsed and the big American inkblot would have spread across Japan.  In some places, the only defence was civilans with wooden sticks and suicide bombs.  Also, don't forget the American lust for revenge, as someone pointed out, one in eight wanted a genocide of the entire Japanese race, I'm sure enough people would have then wanted to at least conquer their homeland.

 Finally an american that i can agree with him in the WW2(japan) matter.  Well said genkhis.

 In my opinion the 2 bomb where drops only do be showen that America had win in the race of the creation of the moss devastating weapon. They want just an exuse to show it to the rest world. Japan could been conquered easily with the right tactic. As genkhis said japan could easily been blockaded, bombed everyday, and lead them to starvation in a couple of months they would surrented.

 It is true that an invation would have a lot of victims. But with the drop of the nukes there are still victims, inosent people, people that they dye every day of them is a living hell. What i believe better 100.000 dead soldiers that a million civilians...

 

That I am stricken and can't let you go
When the heart is cold, there's no hope, and we know
That I am crippled by all that you've done
Into the abyss, will I run


Back to Top
Illuminati View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 08-Dec-2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 949
Post Options Post Options   Quote Illuminati Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Mar-2006 at 11:01
Originally posted by BlindOne

Originally posted by Genghis

Even though the Japanese would have fought hard, there's no way they could have succeeded.  They were completely blockaded, their industry had been wrecked, there would have been mass starvation after the war.  Regardless of their fanaticism, any sort of organized defence would have collapsed and the big American inkblot would have spread across Japan.  In some places, the only defence was civilans with wooden sticks and suicide bombs.  Also, don't forget the American lust for revenge, as someone pointed out, one in eight wanted a genocide of the entire Japanese race, I'm sure enough people would have then wanted to at least conquer their homeland.

 Finally an american that i can agree with him in the WW2(japan) matter.  Well said genkhis.

 In my opinion the 2 bomb where drops only do be showen that America had win in the race of the creation of the moss devastating weapon. They want just an exuse to show it to the rest world. Japan could been conquered easily with the right tactic. As genkhis said japan could easily been blockaded, bombed everyday, and lead them to starvation in a couple of months they would surrented.

 It is true that an invation would have a lot of victims. But with the drop of the nukes there are still victims, inosent people, people that they dye every day of them is a living hell. What i believe better 100.000 dead soldiers that a million civilians...

 



Your facts are off. There were not even a million victims of the the A-bombs. I don't know where you're getting "millions" from.

I can tell, that should there have been an invasion, there would have been millions more civilians killed. Look how many hundreds of thousands of German civiliand died during the invasion of Germany. Japan is more densely crowded, the civilians were more fanatical, and hundreds of thousands of civilians were armed and ready to fight. Japanese civilians committed suicide as US troops approached villages all over the Pacific. They believed that they'd be slaughtered, because the japanese military had been feeding them propaganda.

No one can deny that moe civilians would died in an invasion than the A-bombs killed.


Edited by Illuminati
Back to Top
Genghis View Drop Down
Sultan
Sultan
Avatar

Joined: 02-Aug-2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2657
Post Options Post Options   Quote Genghis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Mar-2006 at 11:23
Originally posted by Illuminati

Originally posted by BlindOne

Originally posted by Genghis

Even though the Japanese would have fought hard, there's no way they could have succeeded.  They were completely blockaded, their industry had been wrecked, there would have been mass starvation after the war.  Regardless of their fanaticism, any sort of organized defence would have collapsed and the big American inkblot would have spread across Japan.  In some places, the only defence was civilans with wooden sticks and suicide bombs.  Also, don't forget the American lust for revenge, as someone pointed out, one in eight wanted a genocide of the entire Japanese race, I'm sure enough people would have then wanted to at least conquer their homeland.

 Finally an american that i can agree with him in the WW2(japan) matter.  Well said genkhis.

 In my opinion the 2 bomb where drops only do be showen that America had win in the race of the creation of the moss devastating weapon. They want just an exuse to show it to the rest world. Japan could been conquered easily with the right tactic. As genkhis said japan could easily been blockaded, bombed everyday, and lead them to starvation in a couple of months they would surrented.

 It is true that an invation would have a lot of victims. But with the drop of the nukes there are still victims, inosent people, people that they dye every day of them is a living hell. What i believe better 100.000 dead soldiers that a million civilians...

 



Your facts are off. There were not even a million victims of the the A-bombs. I don't know where you're getting "millions" from.

I can tell, that should there have been an invasion, there would have been millions more civilians killed. Look how many hundreds of thousands of German civiliand died during the invasion of Germany. Japan is more densely crowded, the civilians were more fanatical, and hundreds of thousands of civilians were armed and ready to fight. Japanese civilians committed suicide as US troops approached villages all over the Pacific. They believed that they'd be slaughtered, because the japanese military had been feeding them propaganda.

No one can deny that moe civilians would died in an invasion than the A-bombs killed.

A million civilians alone would have died of starvation.  An invasion of Japan would have cost millions of Japanese civilian lives and hundreds of thousands of dead American and Japanese GI's.  The bombs were the most humane way to end the war, unless you make a distinction between different kinds of death.

Member of IAEA
Back to Top
pogy366 View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard


Joined: 01-Mar-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 28
Post Options Post Options   Quote pogy366 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Mar-2006 at 12:18
Plans for Operation DOWNFALL were finalized by the summer of 1945 and it would have been a two phase operation.

Operation OLYMPIC would have been the first phase of the invasion of the Japanese Home Islands, kicking off on 01 November 1945. It would have been made up of 14 divisions, all landing on Kyushu, following an enormous naval and aerial bombardment.

Operation CORONET, slated for 01 March 1946, would be the second phase consisting of 22 divisions, landing on Honshu, with the main focus of Tokyo.

The order of battle for the operation would be comprised entirely of American forces, aside from elements of the British Pacific Fleet. In all, 1.5 million Allied combat soldiers with 3 million more for support operations.

The Japanese plan to defend their homeland, code named Ketsu-Go, would have relied heavily on the very real threat of kamikaze attacks. 20 airstrips were constructed on southern Kyushu along with 35 airfields and 9 seaplane bases. There were 58 more airfields in Korea, western Honshu and Shikoku. Over 200 suicide planes would have attacked the invasion fleet on the first day. There were over 12,700 planes, of various types, in the Japanese arsenal.

The Japanese planned on fighter support by 2,000 planes, while 330 IJN planes would attack the main body of the invasion fleet. Then another 825 suicide planes would attack the transports. The initial suicide attack would be followed by waves of 200-300 planes every hour.

The odds came down to 3-to-2 in favor of the Japanese for the Kyushu invasion. 28 million Japanese joined the National Volunteer Combat Force and were armed with anything from rifles and sachel charges to axes and spears. Their slogan was “One Hundred Million Will Die for the Emperor and Nation”.


(Source: James Martin Davis and  Lt.Col.A.E.Roberts, ret.)


Edited by pogy366

"Better to be a geek than an idiot. "
Back to Top
Ikki View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
Guanarteme

Joined: 31-Dec-2004
Location: Spain
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1359
Post Options Post Options   Quote Ikki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Mar-2006 at 20:21
Nukes..., please don't try to justify the unjustified.

Negotiation, diplomacy, by this time Japan was searching a good way to surrender. The A-bombs was only an exhibition, a crude exibition.

About the invasion of Japan: total victory for the allies in a good target practice for the invasion armies. A fast stroll if you count a collaboration with the soviets (naval aid for transport), landing in the western side of the islands at the time that the americans do it in the eastern side... of a country totally destroyed.

good night


Edited by Ikki
Back to Top
Illuminati View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 08-Dec-2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 949
Post Options Post Options   Quote Illuminati Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Mar-2006 at 21:19
Originally posted by Ikki

Nukes..., please don't try to justify the unjustified.

Negotiation, diplomacy, by this time Japan was searching a good way to surrender. The A-bombs was only an exhibition, a crude exibition.

About the invasion of Japan: total victory for the allies in a good target practice for the invasion armies. A fast stroll if you count a collaboration with the soviets (naval aid for transport), landing in the western side of the islands at the time that the americans do it in the eastern side... of a country totally destroyed.

good night


The allies weren't going to go into the home islands with the russians. That was never the plan, and both the allies, and the russians knew that would never work. Russians taking japanese territories in the north is one thing, but a join invasion of the home islands is something else

you didn't put forth any reasonable points about how an invasion would lead to less japanese dead. Any sensible person knows it would have resulted in more japanese deaths, not to mention allied soldiers.

and the japanese were not going to surrender. Hirohito had no power, and the military was training every woman and child in sight to fight the allies. Welcome to reality


Edited by Illuminati
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.109 seconds.