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Forum LockedWorld Folk/Traditional/Roots Music

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Post Options Post Options   Quote King Kang of Mu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: World Folk/Traditional/Roots Music
    Posted: 23-Jun-2008 at 22:18
Well, this thread is another music sharing thread but focusing on Folk/Traditional/Root music from different cultures around the world.  I guess you could call it an Ethnomusicology thread though I don't know if we have any Ethnomusicologist in AE.  I'm certainly not.  But I do think it is an worthy endeavor for a history forum.
 
If you are familiar with other music threads I've been involved in you would have pretty good idea how I would contribute to this thread, an amateur enthusiast point of view.  I will be relying heavily on Wiki for descriptions and YouTube for sample clips.  But don't let my limitation stop you from bringing in other sources though.
 
First, we should touch on the definitions of Folk Music, Traditional Music and Roots Music.  I really not even qualified to do this, so I'll start out Wiki first to open the thread and do some more research as the thread develops.
 
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Folk song can have a number of different meanings, including:

  • Traditional music: The original meaning of the term "folk music" was synonymous with the term "Traditional music", also often including World Music and Roots music; the term "Traditional music" was given its more specific meaning to distinguish it from the other definitions that "Folk music" is now considered to encompass.
  • Folk music can also describe a particular kind of popular music which is based on traditional music. In contemporary times, this kind of folk music is often performed by professional musicians. Related genres include Folk rock and Progressive folk music.
  • In American culture, folk music refers to the American folk music revival, music exemplified by such musicians as Woody Guthrie, who is most noted for "This Land is Your Land, This Land is My Land," Pete Seeger, Bob Dylan and Joan Baez, who popularized and encouraged the lyrical style in the 1950s and 1960s

.......The Tech Multimedia Music Dictionary defines it as "music of the common people that has been passed on by memorization or repetition rather than by writing, and has deep roots in its own culture."[1] It is still being passed on in this way today.

According to Webster's dictionary, folk music is the "traditional and typically anonymous music that is an expression of the life of the people in a community". People play and sing together rather than watching others perform.......

.......There was a vogue for folk music during the start of the Romantic period. One of the first to use it was Josef Haydn (see Haydn and folk music). Beethoven made arrangements of Irish, Welsh and Scottish folk songs (over 150 settings) (see List of compositions by Ludwig van Beethoven). Later composers used the material more liberally. Liszt, Brahms, Bruch, Tchaikovsky and Dvorak wrote folk dances that are often indistinguishable from tunes that come from the authentic tradition........
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A roots revival (folk revival) is a trend which includes young performers popularizing the traditional musical styles of their ancestors. Often, roots revivals include an addition of newly-composed songs with socially and politically aware lyrics, as well as a general modernization of the folk sound. After an American folk music revival in the 1950s, a wave of roots revival swept the world in the 1960s and 70s. In most cases, the folk music being revived were not quite extinct, though some hadn't been played for years or were moribund; such cases include the Celtic music of Cornwall and the Isle of Man, for example. In other cases, such as Cameroon and the Dominican Republic, no revival was necessary as the music remained common, and was merely popularized and adapted for mainstream audiences at home and abroad.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The term world music includes

  • Traditional music (sometimes called folk music or roots music) of any culture that are created and played by indigenous musicians or that are "closely informed or guided by indigenous music of the regions of their origin,"[1] including Western music (i.e. Celtic music). Most typically, the term world music has now replaced folk music as a shorthand description for the very broad range of recordings of traditional indigenous music and song from around the world.
  • Other non-Western music (including non-Western popular music and non-Western classical music)

World music does not include

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

......While musicology's traditional subject has been the history and literature of Western art music, ethnomusicologists study all music as a human social and cultural phenomenon.....

......Ethnomusicologists often apply theories and methods from cultural anthropology, cultural studies and sociology as well as other disciplines in the social sciences and humanities. Though some ethnomusicologists primarily conduct historical studies, the majority are involved in long-term participant observation. Therefore, ethnomusicological work can be characterized as featuring a substantial, intensive ethnographic component......

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Here is a National Geographic page on different genres of World Music
 
 
American Folk Music Revival is something interesting and should be touched on also.   Though I have no problem discussing Bob Dylan or Joan Baez in this thread but that might lead to blurring the line between Pop Music or CMT style Country Music with Folk Music.  But I'm not the one to draw the line so do as you please.  However I welcome the discussions  on Leo Kottke like Bluegrass Country, some early Blues or Jazz like Delta Blues or Ragtime, even early Gospel.
 
My wish for this thread is to introduce traditional music from different parts of the world along with their history, instruments, cultural references, religious or communal rituals/ceremonies associated to them.  To even take it farther a comparative study among what is introduced in the thread, especially for the cultures that are related historically or geographically. 
 
I hope that was enough to get this thread going for now and I'll be back with my first entry Bulgarian Women's Choir.
 
 


Edited by King Kang of Mu - 26-Jun-2008 at 04:15
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Post Options Post Options   Quote es_bih Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jun-2008 at 22:37
Good thread! I will contribute shortly. I am on the pda at work right now. I have some Bosnian Sevdah Music, etc.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote King Kang of Mu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jun-2008 at 01:58
The Bulgarian Women's Choir
 
Some of you might think it's rather random that I picked The Bulgarian Women's Choir to be introduced first by me but I have my reasons and hopefully that will reveal itself before this posting is over. 
 
How I came across to them is actually rather random.  As some of you already have noticed that I am a big Progressive Rock enthusiast.  One of the band I like is King Crimson I admire their guitarist Robert Fripp more than a musician.  I've read somewhere that Mr. Fripp has great fondness for this music.  So I had to check it out.
 
Let's start out with a sample clip.  This is from Johnny Carson Show when they were touring U.S. maybe in th 80's.
 
Amazing!  There are three songs in the clip.  The first one grabs me the most.  Of course they create amazing harmony but any well trained choir would be able to create great harmony,  I mean that is kinda whole point.  But rhythmically they are unique.  I think some of that comes from the language itself, unique diction and syncopation of their accents in the language.  Second song reminded me of more traditional, maybe medieval/Byzantine church music/hymn.  Still wonderful harmony though. 
 
Third one is  probably 'The' American Folk song by Stephen Foster, 'Oh! Susanna'.  I learned this song in Korean translation when I was in elementary school in South Korea.  Before I came to America, when I thought about the word 'America' in musical sense other than Pop, Rap or Heavy Metal, etc I could hum 'Oh! Susanna' and 'Rhapsody in Blue'.  I just thought that they picked this song because they were in U.S. TV show, but when I looked up the song in Wiki for this posting I found something interesting.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Oh! Susanna" is a song written by Stephen Foster in 1847. Popularly associated with the California Gold Rush, the song is occasionally (incorrectly) called "Banjo on My Knee".

In 1843, the year Dan Emmett established The Virginia Minstrels as the first blackface troupe in New York, Foster, 16, was working as a bookkeeper for his brother Morrison's business in Pittsburgh. Morrison was a friend of the early circus blackface clown, Dan Rice, and the young Stephen came under his influence.

Foster also became aware of the new fad of "Ethiopian" songs......

......Probably by fortuitous coincidence rather than design, the song appeared in the public eye at the same time as the new polka fad was arriving from Europe. While minstrel songs prior to this time were considered uncouth, "Oh! Susanna!" thus provided an entre to the middle-class market......

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Hmmm, I didn't know that there was such 'dark' history to the song.  Another thing about my childhood memory is also that since Korean language does not have 'F' in their alphabet, 'F' becomes 'P'.  That would make 'Folk' music, 'Po K' music and 'Polka' music becomes 'Po Ka' music.  Now I think about it as I write actually, is the word 'Folk' and 'Polka' related, Etymologically?  That would make sense wouldn't it? 
 
Wiki says something about Open Throat singing which I don't know what that exactly means.  It does make me wonder though about any possible relation to Mongolian or Tuvan Overtone Throat singing.  But I am planning to introduce Overtone Throat singing also, so hope that question will be answered by then.
 
I couldn't find any article on The Bulgarian Women's Choir alone but it does get mentioned in the Music of Bulgaria article.
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Bulgarian music is part of the Balkan tradition, which stretches across Southeastern Europe, and has its own distinctive cosmic sound. The Trachians ( ancestors of the Bulgarian nation) had knowledge of cosmic music, brought by Orpheus, who was born in the Bulgarian Mountain Rhodope.[citation needed] Furthermore, they were aware of the mathematical theory of sounds.[citation needed] This has all resulted in the wide variety of folklore sounds and music and the distinctive voices in Bulgaria today.[citation needed] Traditional Bulgarian music has had more international success than its neighbors due to the breakout international success of Le Mystère des Voix Bulgares, a woman's choir that has topped world music charts across Europe and even farther abroad.

  • NOTE: Bulgarian is written using the Cyrillic alphabet, so transliterations into the Roman alphabet will result in minor variations of spelling (e.g., paidushko and padushka, gadulka and g'dulka).

Bulgarian vocals are said to be "open-throated", though this is somewhat of a misnomer. Singers actually focus their voices in a way that gives the sound a distinctive "edge", and makes the voice carry over long distances........

.......Singing has always been a tradition for both men and women. Songs were often sung by women at work parties such as the sedenka (often attended by young men and women in search of partners to court), betrothal ceremonies, and just for fun. Women had an extensive repertoire of songs that they sang while working in the fields. Young women eligible for marriage played a particularly important role at the dancing in the village square ..........
 

.......The distinctive sounds of women's choirs in Bulgarian folk music come partly from their unique rhythms, harmony and polyphony, such as the use of close intervals like the major second and the singing of a drone accompaniment underneath the melody, especially common in songs from the Shope region around the Bulgarian capital Sofia and the Pirin region. In addition to Koutev, who pioneered many of the harmonies, and composed several songs that were covered by other groups, (especially Tedora), various women's vocal groups gained popularity, including Trio Bulgarka, consisting of Yanka Roupkina, Eva Georgieva, and Stoyanka Boneva, some of whom were included in the "Mystery of the Bulgarian Voices" tours.........

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Hmmm, Polyphony!  That sounds similar to 'Overtone' doesn't it?   I might be on to something here.   
 
Well, I gotta leave right now for a second but I will pick right back up at the 'Polyphony'.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote es_bih Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jun-2008 at 04:52
Here is an introduction to Sevdah in english, it is a bit lenghty but a good description.

www.sevdalinke.com

www.eveningofsevdah.com




Forst some pictures of Bosnia prior to the 20th century in spirit of the age of these songs.






Janissaries in Bosnia in the 1800s



Videos:

www.mostarsevdahreunion.com

Here is a rather recent interpretation - all these songs up anywhere from a century to two or more old -  of Sevdah. The group formed after the war and their name is Mostar Sevdah Reunion. Very popular in Europe; they performed in various countries and were presented in a few magazines as well.


The video is presented in a more traditional way in Mostar's old town.

Mostar Sevdah Reunion - Cuda jada od Mostara grada - A strange pain in the city of Mostar


http://youtube.com/watch?v=lr7vFb-5d7g


-------------------------------


Sevdah North America - Evening of Sevdah
http://youtube.com/watch?v=As5IPC8_mrg


-------------------------------

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhezAf4BprM&feature=related

Features a compliation of pictures with Sevdah in background


------------------------------
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8K00dGSBAA

Hari Varesanovic - Bosno Moja - My Bosnia

This is a popular and older Sevdah song performed by Hari; who is a popular soft rock/ balad singer in the Balkans.



-------------------------------

This is Bosnian Sevdah - Perfomed in Turkey

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiIfhpPihB0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSIBK-pSW38&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ufPA65Yels&feature=related


Enough for an initial show. I will post some more later on.





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Post Options Post Options   Quote King Kang of Mu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jun-2008 at 06:16
Originally posted by es_bih

Good thread! I will contribute shortly. I am on the pda at work right now. I have some Bosnian Sevdah Music, etc.
 
Thanks es-bih.  Bosnian music would be great to compare to the one I'm working on right now, Bulgarian, I would assume.  Music is easier to appreciate than write about as I'm finding out more and more, especially for an amateur like me.  But anything you introduce I will try to give my honest opinion and try to find connection to little that I know.
 
Having said that I think I bit off something way bigger than I can chew with this 'Polyphony' thing.  I was trying to do some research on it but I was getting into music theories that I can't even begin to understand.  I don't wanna claim anything more than I know and i wanted this to be more of an Music sharing thread than Music theory thread so I will try to watch myself getting in too deep where I don't belong.  But if anyone feels confident or compelled enough, comparative Music theory discussion will be greatly appreciated.
 
But I couldn't just give up on 'Polyphony' so here is a brief description.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Within the context of Western music tradition the term is usually used in reference to music of the late Middle Ages and Renaissance. Baroque forms such as the fugue which might be called polyphonic are usually described instead as contrapuntal. Also, as opposed to the species terminology of counterpoint, polyphony was generally either "pitch-against-pitch" / "point-against-point" or "sustained-pitch" in one part with melismas of varying lengths in another (van der Werf, 1997). In all cases the conception was likely what Margaret Bent (1999) calls "dyadic counterpoint", with each part being written generally against one other part, with all parts modified if needed in the end. This point-against-point conception is opposed to "successive composition", where voices were written in an order with each new voice fitting into the whole so far constructed, which was previously assumed.....

European polyphony rose out of melismatic organum, the earliest harmonization of the chant. Twelfth century composers, such as Léonin and Pérotin developed the organum that was introduced centuries earlier, and also added a third and fourth voice to the now homophonic chant. In the thirteenth century, the chant-based tenor was becoming altered, fragmented, and hidden beneath secular tunes, obscuring the sacred texts as composers continued to play with this new invention called polyphony. The lyrics of love poems might be sung above sacred texts in the form of a trope, or the sacred text might be placed within a familiar secular melody......

.......These musical innovations appeared in a greater context of societal change. After the first millennium, European monks decided to start translating the works of Greek philosophers into the vernacular, following in the footsteps of the Muslims who did that 500 years earlier. Western Europeans were aware of Plato, Socrates, and Hippocrates during the Middle Ages. However they had largely lost touch with the content of their surviving works because the use of Greek as a living language was restricted to the lands of the Eastern Roman Empire (Byzantium). The ancient works, as well as Muslim commentaries, started then being translated. Once they were accessible, the philosophies had a great impact on the mind of Western Europe. Faced with new ideas, society was forced to view itself in a different light as secular ideas competed with the doctrine of the Roman church.

This sparked a number of innovations in medicine, science, art, and music.

The oldest surviving piece of six-part music is the English rota Sumer is icumen in (ca. 1240). (Albright, 2004)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In music, homophony (pronounced /hoʊˈmɒfəni/, from Greek "homófonos", where ομοιο = the same, and φωνή = a sound, tone) is a texture in which two or more parts move together in harmony, the relationship between them creating chords. This is distinct from polyphony, in which parts move with rhythmic independence, and monophony, in which all parts (if there are multiple parts) move in parallel rhythm and pitch. A homophonic texture is also homorhythmic[1] (or uses a "very similar rhythm").
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
I couldn't quite understand how Polyphony is different from any harmonic structure in traditional Western Music.  But looking at the description of Homophony actually gave me a better understanding in comparison.  But in relation to Open Throat Singing and Overtone Throat singing I'm gonna need more research.   I don't wanna bore you with this Music Theory mumble jumble so I'm moving on to another clip of the Bulgarian Women's Choir.
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Mystery Of Bulgarian Voices - The project Voyager part 8
 
 
This song is recorded on golden CDs and is on the spacecrafts Voyager 1 and 2 as a message of the human nation to other civilizations. The song is from the Rhodope region
The Voyager Golden Record is a phonograph record included in the two Voyager spacecraft launched in 1977. It contains sounds and images selected to portray the diversity of life and culture on Earth. It is intended for any intelligent extraterrestrial life form, or far future humans, that may find it. The Voyager spacecraft will take about 40,000 years to come near another star, 'near' meaning in this case within around 1.7 light-years' distance; .......
 
.......The 115 images are encoded in analog form. The remainder of the record is audio, designed to be played at 16â…” revolutions per minute. It contains spoken greetings beginning with Akkadian, which was spoken in Sumer about six thousand years ago, and ending with Wu, a modern Chinese dialect.

Following the section on the sounds of Earth, there is an eclectic 90-minute selection of music from many cultures, including Eastern and Western classics. The selections include:Bulgaria "Излел е Делю хайдутин" ("Izlel je Delyo Hajdutin") traditional Valya Balkanska
Macedonia, Bulgaria, Greece, Rome, Turkey,Serbia, Thracians, Byzantium......
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
I hope that gave you guys better understanding on why I have picked them to open the thread.  I don't need to ramble about how Music is universal and I don't need to get into the String Theory(well, I'm not qualified on that either, you know) to explain how the Universe is an elegant music.  As abstract and metaphysically Music comes to our ears, it is just particles coming in waves of different frequency just like everything else, just as physical.  Comically I think of the scene from 'Back to the Future' when Michael J. fox get blown back by the giant speaker(wouldn't that have blown his ear drums too?).  Biblically I think of the Music that tore down the walls of Jericho.   But most of all I think of Music that is so moving, that even the soldiers in battlefields would drop their guns and forget to fight, can't help themselves but look at one another and feel each other's pain and hope.   
 
When I heard last clip I couldn't help myself but to think about all the mothers in the world, their pain and hope.  Something so private yet so universal.  I know somehow if some alien civilization listens to it in the future they too will think of their mothers.  If they can't, I know they will envy us for us being able to.
 
I will end the night with a couple of more clips from the Bulgarian women.  Because you know I can't get enough of them.  And I will think of the enormity of the Universe and our Earthly mothers.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote King Kang of Mu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jun-2008 at 06:58
Originally posted by es_bih


www.sevdalinke.com
www.eveningofsevdah.com

Videos:
www.mostarsevdahreunion.com
http://youtube.com/watch?v=lr7vFb-5d7g
-------------------------------
Sevdah North America - Evening of Sevdah
http://youtube.com/watch?v=As5IPC8_mrg
-------------------------------
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhezAf4BprM&feature=related
------------------------------
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8K00dGSBAA
-------------------------------
This is Bosnian Sevdah - Perfomed in Turkey
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiIfhpPihB0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSIBK-pSW38&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ufPA65Yels&feature=related
 
Hey eh-bih, Thanks for your post again.  Once again it will take me least a couple of days to read through, listen, watch and digest what you have posted.  Good thing the Euro doesn't have games everyday any more, hah?Cry
 
Anyway, your links didn't show up as automatic links on my screen. Is it just me? I used to have same problem too, though I don't know how I fixed it.  So I consoildated your just your links as a quote, so lazy forumers like me can access more easily. 
 
I hope I have more to respond to your links next time and maybe we can even compare Bosnian music to Bulgarian, other Balkan. maybe Turkic music and more.
 
Thanks again
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Post Options Post Options   Quote es_bih Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jun-2008 at 07:00
I was rushing to get some content for your thread, I'll edit my post later on and include direct links. 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote King Kang of Mu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jun-2008 at 09:03

Hey, eh-bih.  Finally got around to check out everything you've posted least a couple of times.

First I really enjoyed reading the introduction to Sevdah in this; www.sevdalinke.com .  But I will come back to that later.
 
Out of the sample clips I enjoyed this the most; www.mostarsevdahreunion.com .  First the voice was so unadulterated and soulful to my ears.  It sounded as if I had a Bosnian uncle uncle and he sang to me about my family history.  But as down to earth and intimate as the voice sounded, the instrumentation was rather intricate and refined, especially the interplay between the horn,  the accordion(organ?) and the fiddle.  At times almost they were chasing one another.  The horn did remind me of some Mariachi horn sound.  Indeed even in rest of the clips I've found some Latin elements as well as strong Turkic/Islamic elements.  When I say Latin though, I mean Latin American as well as Mediterranean.  It was the actually the horn that embodied both elements, shifting in and out of both elements with splendid rhythmic quality.
 
Sevdah North America - Evening of Sevdah
http://youtube.com/watch?v=As5IPC8_mrg
In this performance I've also felt similar intimacy especially in the vocal.  That instrument Saz(?) was also very interesting to me.  It almost sounded like a 12 string guitar.  The pear shape of the body reminded me of Oud.  I used to date a Lebanese/Irish girl, though her Oud had almost 90 degree bent neck.  She used to play that for me.  Though Oud seems to me more of a finger picking instrument than a strumming instrument like your footage shows but my ex wasn't that skilled so she strummed it more which made Oud and Saz sound more similar(she's gonna visit me from New Orleans this weekend actually, kinda funny coincident).  Oud=Wood? Maybe Cyrus Shahmiri can answer this.
 
But I thought maybe I was comparing two isolated examples so looked up more footage on Saz and Oud to compare, especially the finger picking style of Saz.
 
Baglama-Saz & Hasan Genc
OMG, Joe SAZtriani!  Amazing!
 
Oud Music By Ali Hassan
 
Based on above two footages Oud seem to have little warmer and fuller tone but I'm pretty sure there are many different variations of both instruments and more different style of playing them.  It will be interesting to get into that by different regions also.  Maybe some other time.
 
Well it's getting late again for me so I'm gonna have get back to the rest of the list later.  Maybe after the Euro semifinals.  But I would still like to get deeper into some of the cultural concepts that are mentioned in www.sevdalinke.com.
 
Again, thanks for your enthusiasm, patience and contribution in this thread and good luck with whoever you support in Euro 08.  Take care 
 
   

 


Edited by King Kang of Mu - 25-Jun-2008 at 09:08
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Post Options Post Options   Quote es_bih Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jun-2008 at 19:22
No problem, I will post more in here, I am getting ready for the Euro match, getting my Turkiye jersey out Smile

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Post Options Post Options   Quote xristar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jun-2008 at 22:16
http://youtube.com/watch?v=AYV3ml4AT3g
A polyphonic song from Greece (as a matter of fact from Albania, but it is in greek). It speaks of World War 2. It says: "One Sunday morning, war reached down Droviani; Come, let's go there, for you to see what's happening, how the blood of the Greeks is being spilled".


Edited by xristar - 25-Jun-2008 at 22:17

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Post Options Post Options   Quote es_bih Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jun-2008 at 23:05
Here are some more of Mostar Sevdah Reunion

Gondze Ruzo
Same as the first of their clips that I posted with a very powerful vocal supported by instrumentals that match.


Cije je ono djevojce This is a more relaxed and upbeat song, but with a familiar sevdah tone.


Oci moje kletvom bih vas kleo


Here is another



This is Arabeske featuring instrumentals by Zabranjeno Pusenje (No Smoking - a popular Yugoslavian rock band). There are some clips of a recent and popular movie in between in the video, too, for which the song had been re-made.

Arabeske & Zabranjeno Pusenje - Kad procvatu Behari






Here are some clips from Himzo Polovina
He is a legendary sevdah interpreter and has recorded and collected sevdah songs for decades up to his death in 1981.

This particular song is much more soulful as the first clip of Mostar Sevdah Reunion that i posted initially:

Himzo -Emina

Version 2


Himzo - Sunce tone dan se kloni (The sun is setting the day is winding)

Himzo - Askam geldi









Edited by es_bih - 26-Jun-2008 at 06:05

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Post Options Post Options   Quote King Kang of Mu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jun-2008 at 06:11
Originally posted by xristar

http://youtube.com/watch?v=AYV3ml4AT3g
A polyphonic song from Greece (as a matter of fact from Albania, but it is in greek). It speaks of World War 2. It says: "One Sunday morning, war reached down Droviani; Come, let's go there, for you to see what's happening, how the blood of the Greeks is being spilled".
 
Hello, xristar!  Welcome to this thread.  Thanks for your posting.  It was great to listen to a polyphonic song from Greece right after I just introduced the Bulgarian style of it. It was one of the main reasons of what I wished this thread to be, a comparative sharing from posting to posting , region to region, culture to culture.
 
Your post definitely gave me a better understanding of what Polyphony is.  I thought I bit off more than I can chew and bore people with this music theory stuff, but I'm glad someone could relate to it in any way. 
 
I could tell how in both traditions, the different parts came in different time in the passage and held certain note until they made harmonic unison and then stop or broke off, only to do the same process again.  I can't tell you exactly what time signatures or harmonic chords are played but I could tell there are more then 2-3 involved. 
 
One thing very noticeable is, first the male female interplay compare to the Bulgarian Women's choir but I think they have mixed sex polyphonic in Bulgaria too, though i can't confirm it right now.  But when you had mixed sex singing there was definitely the division of labor as far as male part was lower and held longer notes with fewer and stretched out words though they seemed to come in behind the women's part.  Female parts seems carry shorter and higher notes with more lyrical content.  It would be actually interesting hear just womens parts with just more parts.  I think it would actually sound lot like the Bulgarian Women's Choir. 
 
There you go, you got me into all that music theory mumble jumble again.  It's so hard to be analytical with so little knowledge.  I wish there was a musicologist in this thread  to sort this all out.  I'm trying best I can.
 
The singers in your post seem more of your everyday village folks than trained choir, which is what really the 'folk' music is all about.  But i thought it would still interesting to see any artform in more refined manner least as a reference point. So I try to find similar Greek Albanian polyphonic performance. 
 
If you speak the language would you mind to take time to tell me what they are singing about or what you think of it?
 
Πολυφωνικό Χιμάρας
 
Speaking of Greek music and Bulgarian music I would also like to do a brief introduction of Orppheus when I get around to it.  So stay tuned if you would.
Thanks again and see you in this thread again.
 
 
    
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Theodore Felix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jun-2008 at 06:29
The polyphonic music shown in those videos is from southern Albania. Himara is a largely mixed Greco-Albanian village near Vlora while Droviani is a Greek village from the complete south. Its a very very common type of music found there and especially popular among Lab Albanians. There are many different types played by the various Tosk subgroups:

Here is some more info:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=DSa1mZrBq1g&feature=related
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=yblItWZPG9Y
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=mriwgIlJDnQ
This is from Lab Albanians: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=mPYDwGxZHlI

This is a modern type by an Albanian singer in Italy, Anna Hoxha, it uses a polyphinic background:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=C22KX37jmW4

This polyphony is mostly the southern Albanian one, the Gheg(northern Albanian) differs quite a bit.

You can read more about it here:
http://worldmusiccentral.org/article.php/20041228040955584

I have never heard of Polyphonic music from Bulgaria. This is quite interesting, up until now I thought it was unique to the region I was from. Do you have any samples of it?

Edited by Theodore Felix - 26-Jun-2008 at 08:16
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Post Options Post Options   Quote King Kang of Mu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jun-2008 at 07:50
Hello, Theodore Felix.  Thanks for your post.
 
Now, I'm just learning about the concept of Polyphony after I started this thread.  Actually i was just introducing The Bulgarian Women's Choir and doing some research in Wiki and the concept came up. 
 
I did however post a couple long posting on them and the concept.  But I'm not a Musicologist or ever have been to the Balkan penninsula, so I highly doubt that I have good understanding of the concept. 
 
I know those were rather long and boring postings by me and  don't blame you if you overlooked them.Big%20smile
 
So I will quote myself about The Bulgarian Women's Choir and Polyphony parts from my previous posts.  But there a couple of long posts by me in the begining of the thread so you should check them out if you feel compelled to ,after reading this post. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Originally posted by King Kang of Mu

The Bulgarian Women's Choir
 ........
 .......
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bulgarian music is part of the Balkan tradition, which stretches across Southeastern Europe, and has its own distinctive cosmic sound. The Trachians ( ancestors of the Bulgarian nation) had knowledge of cosmic music, brought by Orpheus, who was born in the Bulgarian Mountain Rhodope.[citation needed] Furthermore, they were aware of the mathematical theory of sounds.[citation needed] This has all resulted in the wide variety of folklore sounds and music and the distinctive voices in Bulgaria today.[citation needed] Traditional Bulgarian music has had more international success than its neighbors due to the breakout international success of Le Mystère des Voix Bulgares, a woman's choir that has topped world music charts across Europe and even farther abroad.

  • NOTE: Bulgarian is written using the Cyrillic alphabet, so transliterations into the Roman alphabet will result in minor variations of spelling (e.g., paidushko and padushka, gadulka and g'dulka).

Bulgarian vocals are said to be "open-throated", though this is somewhat of a misnomer. Singers actually focus their voices in a way that gives the sound a distinctive "edge", and makes the voice carry over long distances........

.......Singing has always been a tradition for both men and women. Songs were often sung by women at work parties such as the sedenka (often attended by young men and women in search of partners to court), betrothal ceremonies, and just for fun. Women had an extensive repertoire of songs that they sang while working in the fields. Young women eligible for marriage played a particularly important role at the dancing in the village square ..........
 

.......The distinctive sounds of women's choirs in Bulgarian folk music come partly from their unique rhythms, harmony and polyphony, such as the use of close intervals like the major second and the singing of a drone accompaniment underneath the melody, especially common in songs from the Shope region around the Bulgarian capital Sofia and the Pirin region. In addition to Koutev, who pioneered many of the harmonies, and composed several songs that were covered by other groups, (especially Tedora), various women's vocal groups gained popularity, including Trio Bulgarka, consisting of Yanka Roupkina, Eva Georgieva, and Stoyanka Boneva, some of whom were included in the "Mystery of the Bulgarian Voices" tours.........

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Hmmm, Polyphony!  That sounds similar to 'Overtone' doesn't it?   I might be on to something here.   
 
Well, I gotta leave right now for a second but I will pick right back up at the 'Polyphony'.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote es_bih Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jun-2008 at 08:04
This is becoming a very good thread Thumbs%20Up. I like your contribution Theodore and xristar

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Post Options Post Options   Quote King Kang of Mu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jun-2008 at 09:19

Alright, es_bih.  This is gonna be the last one for me for the night/morning.  I'm gonna make it a short one.  This is gonna be actually little off the topic.

SEVDAH Jusuf Stari i Sandzak
 
^^^That one you posted(see I'm still working through your first list), I don't know if it's the picture slide show or it's late and I'm delirious but it reminded me of this song from an Italian film called 'Cinema Paradiso'.  The music was composed by the famous Italian film composer Annio Morricone.  However the particular track I wanted post I couldn't find with the film footage.  But I did find it with someone's home movie footage.
 
'Childhood and Manhood'  from Cinema Paradiso by Annio Morricone 
 
I don't know, is it just me or the accordion on later part of 'Jusuf Stari i Sandzak' remind you of the violin in the beginning part of 'Childhood and Manhood'?  Maybe it is way past my bed time.
 
Maybe it's the Mediterranian elements I was talking about in the earlier post.  Anyway if you haven't seen the movie, it's a great movie.
 
I also found the same track played by this crazy Korean American kid who plays with two electric guitars at once that I couldn't pass up.  Freaking freak!
 
Childhood & Manhood (OST: Cinema Paradiso)
 
This is a trailer for the movie with the footages so you guys can get a sense of what the movie is about and why it reminded me of the picture slide show in Jusuf Stari i Sandzak.
 
 
 
 
 


Edited by King Kang of Mu - 26-Jun-2008 at 09:21
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Post Options Post Options   Quote xristar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jun-2008 at 13:44
If you speak the language would you mind to take time to tell me what they are singing about or what you think of it?
 
Πολυφωνικό Χιμάρας

This song is apparently sung by a man's perspective and roughly says "there were three beautiful girls, walking on the road alone. If someone went there he would take all three. I'd storm and take one, even if they cut my "wings" [not sure]. I'd storm and take two, even if they would cut my throat. I'd storm and take three, even if they put me to prison".

EDIT: Theodore, many of your links don't work.


Edited by xristar - 26-Jun-2008 at 13:52

Defeat allows no explanation
Victory needs none.
It insults the dead when you treat life carelessly.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote vranakonti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jun-2008 at 13:57
Originally posted by xristar

http://youtube.com/watch?v=AYV3ml4AT3g
A polyphonic song from Greece (as a matter of fact from Albania, but it is in greek). It speaks of World War 2. It says: "One Sunday morning, war reached down Droviani; Come, let's go there, for you to see what's happening, how the blood of the Greeks is being spilled".
 
So xristar this is a typical example of Greek music?!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote vranakonti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jun-2008 at 14:23

This is the masterpiece of the Albanian polyphony(in my opinion).

Janino.
Live version,from a local group.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote King Kang of Mu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jun-2008 at 16:54
Originally posted by vranakonti

This is the masterpiece of the Albanian polyphony(in my opinion).

Janino.
Live version,from a local group.
 
They are both excellent clips.  Thanks vranakonti! 
 
I don't exactly know what you meant by 'a local group' for the second clip but those men seemed way too refined to be just village folks.  I meant that as a complement like they should be professionals and revered like cultural idols.
 
The first clip was truly a masterpiece though.  I don't know if it was the difference in the audio qualities in both footages but the first clip had clear harmonic unison and better rhythmic syncopation.  But it's always easier to syncopate with less people.
Both seemed good example of the art form they represent.  Thanks for posting them.
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