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Forum Lockedwhy didn't arabs conquer India?

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    Posted: 23-Feb-2008 at 19:43
why didn't arabs go towards India with full force? I mean they only sent Muhammad bin Qasim to sindh and after that no one came. India was known as a very rich area of the world where they could have made a lot of wealth. why did arabs instead go west towards Europe and Spain, which was generally poor at the time?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Feb-2008 at 19:57
Why is your name Seko, that name is copyrighted on this forum Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lmprs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Feb-2008 at 19:59
Maybe they couldn't have done that. What was the population of India back then?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Feb-2008 at 20:58
Hello to you all
 
Well there are many reasons for this, first was the civil war and then fall of the Ummayyads. The Umayyads were agressive conquerors, they succeeded in conquering all the lands they sent armies to except Byzantium. Muhammad bin Al-Qasim wante to go to India because of the enormous wealth there and because pagans accepted Islam much easier than Christians or Zoroastrians. Native population of Sindh and southern Punjab welcomed Arabs and allied themselves with them, this no doubt encouraged Muhammad to plan for further incursion into India especially after the successful naval operations against Gujurat and the arrival of new troops. But the death of Al-Walid I spelt doom for ibn Al-Qasin and his conquest. For a very weak charge he was tried and killed. His troops were withdrawn for war effort in the Byzantine front and even after the failure of the siege of 717, new problem started, civil war in spain, major revolts in Khurasan, Mazandran and transoxania and then the great Khazar invasion which threatened the very existance of the Ummayyad empire. All that lead to the withdrawall of all the troops in Sindh. When the Abbasids came, they had little attention payed to conquest and focused on preserving what was already in their hands. Later, they allowed the existance of client dynasties that became responsible for securing the realm of Islam, these clients soon became fully independet and started the long and bloody process of conquering India.
 
Al-Jassas 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sparten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Feb-2008 at 21:26

Arab rule was from what is now Karachi to the confluence of the Chanab and Indus, that is Multan.

The Germans also take vacations in Paris; especially during the periods they call "blitzkrieg".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bilal_ali_2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Feb-2008 at 09:02

           There is an arab proverb which will give some insight as to the reason

"Persia is known for its archers, Turks for their cavalry and India for its armies"

      And Al-Jassas about your assertion that pagans accepted  Islam more quickly than Zoarastrians or christians is interesting. Persians became muslims rather quickly however the Pagan Indonesians accepted Islam almost without any effort. But most countries of South East Asia are still mostly pagan. And it should be in your notice that many people of the mid-east and Egypt were christians under Roman rule and in most of these countries with the odd exception of Lebanon there is not a sizeable christian community. And Modern India despite being under about 800 years of muslim rule is still largely pagan. 

     I think that your assertion is a bit of an over-generalization.  


Edited by bilal_ali_2000 - 26-Feb-2008 at 09:06
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Feb-2008 at 14:33
Hello Bilal
 
First, I never heard of the proverb you said however there are other quotes by several leaders which are close to what you said.
 
As for Pagans accepting Islam, it is true. Persians were majority Zoroastrians till the 10th century then there were some forced conversions to Shiism in certain places. Several provinces like Kashan and Yazd had upto 25% of its population Zoroasrians when the Safavids forced the rest of Persia to convert to Shiism in the 16th century. Indonesians were Hindu and were peacefully converted so was most Sindhis, Kashmiris, Punjabis etc. It was only when later dynasties resorted to bloody attacks n hindus did the conversion rate became static. Dynasties wanted to rule more tha to spread Islam and if they did that peacefully India woud hve been majority muslim long ago.
 
Al-Jassas
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bilal_ali_2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Mar-2008 at 20:07
Originally posted by Al Jassas Al Jassas wrote:

Hello Bilal
 
First, I never heard of the proverb you said however there are other quotes by several leaders which are close to what you said.
 
As for Pagans accepting Islam, it is true. Persians were majority Zoroastrians till the 10th century then there were some forced conversions to Shiism in certain places. Several provinces like Kashan and Yazd had upto 25% of its population Zoroasrians when the Safavids forced the rest of Persia to convert to Shiism in the 16th century. Indonesians were Hindu and were peacefully converted so was most Sindhis, Kashmiris, Punjabis etc. It was only when later dynasties resorted to bloody attacks n hindus did the conversion rate became static. Dynasties wanted to rule more tha to spread Islam and if they did that peacefully India woud hve been majority muslim long ago.
 
Al-Jassas
 
 
 
     That proverb is hosted on this site.
 
       And most of the population which was converted to Islam was actually Bhuddist. And the population which was converted to Islam was converted to Sufi islam, of which most arabs are not very big fans, who prefer Wahabism instead. 


Edited by bilal_ali_2000 - 01-Mar-2008 at 20:09
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Mar-2008 at 15:52
Hello Bilal
 
Obviously you no nothing about Arabs so I will explain some things to you. First, Arabs are not Wahhabis because there is no such thing. Second, he first people who attacked the Wahhabi movement were neighbouring Arabs wether they be in Nejd or in Egypt or Iraq, Sunni or Shia. The Wahhabis were puritanical reformers simmilar to the English puritans. The movement ceased to exist a long time ago because its goals were accomplished, purifying religion from pagan influences. In the rest of the Islamic world, Sufism is still strong, there are some 20% of the population of Egypt and up to 90% of that of Morocco and Sudan. The rest of the population whil not sharing the same creed of Sufis have been influenced by them and many celebration and practices that are not acceptable by Sunni scholars are widely practised among non Sufis. Islam entered India before Sufis began to have the upper hand there. Sufism started to grow rapidly after the ongolian hordes distroyed much of the Islamic world. The collapse of the Islamic system of education and the advent of illiterate rulers surrounded by sufis meant that sufism not traditional sunni Islam was to gain followers that is why many Indians are sufis but most are still Sunnis with sufi infuences.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bilal_ali_2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Mar-2008 at 13:14
Originally posted by Al Jassas Al Jassas wrote:

Hello Bilal
 
Obviously you no nothing about Arabs so I will explain some things to you. First, Arabs are not Wahhabis because there is no such thing. Second, he first people who attacked the Wahhabi movement were neighbouring Arabs wether they be in Nejd or in Egypt or Iraq, Sunni or Shia. The Wahhabis were puritanical reformers simmilar to the English puritans. The movement ceased to exist a long time ago because its goals were accomplished, purifying religion from pagan influences. In the rest of the Islamic world, Sufism is still strong, there are some 20% of the population of Egypt and up to 90% of that of Morocco and Sudan. The rest of the population whil not sharing the same creed of Sufis have been influenced by them and many celebration and practices that are not acceptable by Sunni scholars are widely practised among non Sufis. Islam entered India before Sufis began to have the upper hand there. Sufism started to grow rapidly after the ongolian hordes distroyed much of the Islamic world. The collapse of the Islamic system of education and the advent of illiterate rulers surrounded by sufis meant that sufism not traditional sunni Islam was to gain followers that is why many Indians are sufis but most are still Sunnis with sufi infuences.
 
AL-Jassas
 
          I have to say that you also know very little about the subcontient culture. Islam did enter India before the Sufis but it was the Sufis who really converted the local poulation. Since you are not a Pakistani therefore you don't the know the Sufi influence here, it is everywhere from music to shrines and folk poetry and all. And i know for a fact that many so called teachers of Islam went to the Arab countries and were greatly influenced by Wahabism and then going back to the subcontinent caused immense social strife there. 
 
         And about your claim that Persia was not really mostly muslim until about 1000 A.D. Well that is strange, i have read 1001 Arabian nights, which is actually 1001 Persian nights from around 800 A.D and Persia is as Muslim as it could be there with no signs of Zoarastrianism anywhere. Read it, you will know what i mean. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Mar-2008 at 15:41

Hello Bilal

Here is the problem, which version of the Nights you mean, if you don't know it by now, there is some 3 main versions if not more and many have completely different themes. The version that I read a long time ago was in 7 volumes and the Egyptian influence, nicknames, jockes etc is much more appareant than any other influence. 8th century Baghdad was actually 15th century Cairo.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AGMS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-May-2009 at 04:58
How dare you say that India is still pagan, Hinduism is hardly pagan being the oldest religion of this world. Christianity, Judaism, and Islam are new when compared to Hinduism. You seemed to glance over the fact that Hinduism is the oldest religion of this world and 3rd largest in terms of followers following Christianity, and Islam. Furthermore Hinduism is the last true polytheistic religion left. I would consider that next time you said any statements even suggesting that India is largely pagan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-May-2009 at 06:35
Originally posted by AGMS AGMS wrote:

How dare you say that India is still pagan, Hinduism is hardly pagan being the oldest religion of this world. Christianity, Judaism, and Islam are new when compared to Hinduism. You seemed to glance over the fact that Hinduism is the oldest religion of this world and 3rd largest in terms of followers following Christianity, and Islam. Furthermore Hinduism is the last true polytheistic religion left. I would consider that next time you said any statements even suggesting that India is largely pagan
I don't know what you think Pagan means. According to the dictionary it means:
"One who is not a Christian, Muslim, or Jew, especially an adherent of a polytheistic religion in antiquity."
I don't know about you, but I'm quite content with calling Hindus people who aren't Christian, Muslim or Jew and are polytheist. In the context of Muhammed bin Qasim, they were also in antiquity.
 
I don't think the age of a religion has anything to do with it being pagan or not.


Edited by Omar al Hashim - 15-May-2009 at 06:40
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-May-2009 at 06:38
Originally posted by Al Jassas Al Jassas wrote:

Native population of Sindh and southern Punjab welcomed Arabs and allied themselves with them
Only the Buddhists actually, who were quite happy to get rid of the Brahmin rule. Nearly the whole of the Buddhist population converted over time, that is still evident in the demographics of india. The current muslim population is quite proportional to ancient buddhist populations.
I think the effect of Sufis is greatly overstated.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ikki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-May-2009 at 16:47
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim Omar al Hashim wrote:

Originally posted by Al Jassas Al Jassas wrote:

Native population of Sindh and southern Punjab welcomed Arabs and allied themselves with them
Only the Buddhists actually, who were quite happy to get rid of the Brahmin rule. Nearly the whole of the Buddhist population converted over time, that is still evident in the demographics of india. The current muslim population is quite proportional to ancient buddhist populations.
 
 
This is specially useful explaining why Bengal became muslim, relativelly isolated from the rest of the islamic world.


Edited by Ikki - 15-May-2009 at 16:48
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AGMS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-May-2009 at 01:06
lol at least Hindu's aren't so tied in their conflicting beliefs and viewpoints. The only true religion left in this world. Christianity, Islam and Judaism all got it wrong
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AGMS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-May-2009 at 01:10
Furthermore Hinduism is a mixture of monotheistic and polytheistic ideals, so it goes to show that the dictionary definition is misguided.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-May-2009 at 02:06
Originally posted by Ikki Ikki wrote:

Originally posted by Omar al Hashim Omar al Hashim wrote:

Originally posted by Al Jassas Al Jassas wrote:

Native population of Sindh and southern Punjab welcomed Arabs and allied themselves with them
Only the Buddhists actually, who were quite happy to get rid of the Brahmin rule. Nearly the whole of the Buddhist population converted over time, that is still evident in the demographics of india. The current muslim population is quite proportional to ancient buddhist populations.
This is specially useful explaining why Bengal became muslim, relativelly isolated from the rest of the islamic world.

Its not really isolated, there are muslim minorities in Bhutan, Burma, Vietnam, Cambodia, Thailand, Yunnan (Currently part of China), and even a small minority in Laos. Not to mention India.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ruffian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-May-2009 at 04:53
Other records suggest arabs tried their best for many hundred years but could not succeed:

http://voiceofdharma.org/books/hhrmi/ch2.htm

Qasim according to local indic sources suffered a defeat at the hands of Bappa Rawal:
http://hindurajput.blogspot.com/#Bappa_Rawal

Qasims' Arabs were overpowered by Gurajara-Pratiharas and the only reason they were not completely routed because whenever the Indian army approached the arabs threatened to burn a big temple in their region.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ruffian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-May-2009 at 04:54
Originally posted by bilal_ali_2000 bilal_ali_2000 wrote:

           There is an arab proverb which will give some insight as to the reason

"Persia is known for its archers, Turks for their cavalry and India for its armies"



What is the source of this quote?


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