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Forum LockedWho was the best Mongol general?

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Poll Question: Who was the best Mongol general?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
12 [46.15%]
3 [11.54%]
2 [7.69%]
1 [3.85%]
0 [0.00%]
2 [7.69%]
0 [0.00%]
1 [3.85%]
4 [15.38%]
1 [3.85%]
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Post Options Post Options   Quote poirot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Who was the best Mongol general?
    Posted: 04-Aug-2005 at 00:24

I read a thread about Subutai and pose the question:

Is the highly acclaimed Subutai the best Mongol general?

Who, in your opinion, is the best Mongol commander?

Subutai's fame arised mainly from the European campaign led in name by Batu Khan.  Despite the brutality of Mongol forces, one cannot deny Subutai's brillance in manuvering his troops and using hit and run tactics.

Yet, the second European campaign occurred after Genghis Khan's death.  Was Subutai Genghis Khan's top general?  He was one of the best, but was he the best?

The poll does not include Genghis Khan and other Mongol rulers, unless the Mongol ruler, such as Batu, Hulegu, and Kublai, participated in campaigns prior to or during his rule.

I personally vote Jebe (just to spite Subutai admirers in Europe and beyond!)

Oh, please do not say Tamerlane because he is only a self-acclaimed Mongol!  He does not count in this poll.



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Post Options Post Options   Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Aug-2005 at 00:36
Subedei of course, and not just for Europe mind you! His campaings against the Kwarezems(hate writing thaT) and Russia plus early career under Chinggis is all great as well.  His cross desert march to outflank the Kwarezem shahs forces was the first sogn of greatness, Europe was just the culmination.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote poirot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Aug-2005 at 00:46

TO Tobodai:

Yes, you make a good point about K. and earlier campaigns.  However, Jebe was with Subutai during the K. campaigns and the march into Kipchak territory.  Subutai was more memorable because of the European campaign and because he lived longer.  Subutai's brother Jeleme was equally brave and brilliant.  Subutai was one of Genghis Khan's trusted and brave Four Hounds: Subutai, Jeleme, Kubulei, and Jebe.  Other great generals under Genghis were the Four Stallions: Muquali, Borrachu, Borrahu, and Chilaowen.

Genghis Khan's left and righthand commanders of ten thousands were Borrachu and Muquali.  In terms of seniority, Borrachu and Jeleme were ranked as high as Subutai.  In terms of ability, Muquali, Jebe, and Subutai were equally brillant.

Oh, forgot to include Subutai's sons and grandson Achu, all brillant generals.



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Post Options Post Options   Quote vulkan02 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Aug-2005 at 01:03
subedei of course but who was muqali and bayan??
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Imperator Invictus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Aug-2005 at 01:21
Muqali was the General who carried out operations against the Jin Empire after Chingiz himself got bored of fighting there and wanted to invade west instead. He was reasonably successful. Bayan was one of Hulegu's lieutenants. After Hulegu's campiagn, he went East and became an important commander to Kublai. His victories in China were imporant in brining the region under Mongol rule.

Of those in the List, I think Subedei was the greatest, since he had the most distinguished career. The campiagn towards europe is probably the second greatest campaign in history, second only to Alexander's. Needless to say, he also had a distinguished career in the Khwarezmian/kalkha campaign, and also in China as well.

The Second greatest is probably Jebe, who had as good of a career as Subedei, until he died on the kalkha campaign. Following him, I would say, is Hulegu. The main problem with Hulegu is that he is improperly blamed for the defeat at Ain Jalut. Even though he didn't even command the Mongol army there. More severely though, was the fact that during his civil war against Berke Khan, he lost most of his men trying to cross a frozen river to invade the Golden Horde.



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Post Options Post Options   Quote Arvedui Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Aug-2005 at 06:31
Subeday of course
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Kenaney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Aug-2005 at 10:32
Ive never heard of kaidu and guo kan, who are they, wich victorys do they have?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote poirot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Aug-2005 at 17:09

Kaidu was the grandson of Ogedei Khan.  He participated in the second Mongol campaign in Europe.  Kaidu and Baidar invaded Lithuania and Poland while Subutai and Batu marched to Hungary.  Kaidu was able to caputre Crakow, and defeat a larger joint Teutonic Knight/Polish army in a decisive victory at Liegnitz

Guo Kan was a senior general under Hulegu in the Mongol campaign to Persia and Mesopotomia.  He was responsible for storming Alamut and destroying the Assassins.  Guo Kan participated in the sacking of Baghdad and later marched toward Syria and Cyprus.  After taking Damascus, Guo Kan also launched attacks on Crusader states in the Outremer.  After the death of Mongke Khan, Guo Kan returned to the Mongol heartland; thus he was not responsible for the defeat at Ain Jalut.



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Post Options Post Options   Quote BigL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Oct-2005 at 01:31
Didnt jebe go out hunting on the reconaisance mission agaisnt russia and was late to the metting point 2 weeks late?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chingis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Oct-2005 at 04:01
i voted for Subedei,
muhlai , zev was second i think(as general)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-May-2006 at 10:00
wasn't bayan  hun?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Seömis of Arierep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-May-2006 at 12:41
I think and from what i have read the best mongol general as Subutai.
Othe good general as Jebe but he dies to soon.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Seömis of Arierep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-May-2006 at 12:49
I have other question: Borchu could be considered as a general or simply as the main advisor of Genghis Khan?
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