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Forum LockedWho started first? Japan or US?

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    Posted: 18-Dec-2006 at 08:57
I have heard on more than one occassion that Pearl Harbor was not a declaration of War against the U.S but retaliation for attack that happened earlier that year.

Does anyone know any more about this or could find possible information on this?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Qin Dynasty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Dec-2006 at 03:13
Then, what kinda attack made Japanese so furious that they were determined to have a total war for retailiation?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sock Puppet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Dec-2006 at 04:18
what do ya mean, Pearl Harbor was an unprovoked terrorist attack by the half blind pilots of the yellow peril upon the last bastion of the Nordic Race, solely because they were jealous of the fact 'we are free, an they are not'. Hiroheto was simply the Bin Laden of his day. Well at least that what I learnt at school. [At this point, all fellow Americans please now shut off you brain and repeat those words 'we are free, we drink coke, the military needs more funding' 10 times as programmed to do at school, preferable while simultaneously, jacking off in front of a flag.]
 
really though, Dickface a'la, FDR, froze Japanese assets in US banks, and  cut off of Japanese oil supplies which if someone did to the US would be considered an act of war. It was by the Japanese at the time. Shame they never launched the attack on Washington instead.


Edited by Sock Puppet - 19-Dec-2006 at 04:23
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ryukyu Magic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Dec-2006 at 06:44
I'm just looking for other takes on what happened. I have heard from a Japanese person that United States attacked Japanese ships well before they attacked Pearl Harbor. And that Pearl Harbor was retaliation.

I'm not saying this is necessarily but I have raised in the United States and would like to hear other accounts other than the typical FDR freezing the assets etc. and Japanese surprise attack.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aelfgifu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Dec-2006 at 13:51
I think that no matter what, Japan's attack on the US was bloody stupid. As far as the Japanese/German case goes, the longer the US would have stayed out, thet better for them.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Dec-2006 at 14:12
Originally posted by Sock Puppet Sock Puppet wrote:

what do ya mean, Pearl Harbor was an unprovoked terrorist attack by the half blind pilots of the yellow peril upon the last bastion of the Nordic Race, solely because they were jealous of the fact 'we are free, an they are not'. Hiroheto was simply the Bin Laden of his day. Well at least that what I learnt at school. [At this point, all fellow Americans please now shut off you brain and repeat those words 'we are free, we drink coke, the military needs more funding' 10 times as programmed to do at school, preferable while simultaneously, jacking off in front of a flag.]
 
really though, Dickface a'la, FDR, froze Japanese assets in US banks, and  cut off of Japanese oil supplies which if someone did to the US would be considered an act of war. It was by the Japanese at the time. Shame they never launched the attack on Washington instead.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote I/eye Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Dec-2006 at 17:39

Americans did not make an attack on Japanese ships before pearl harbour.

America slowly went from refusing to sell equipment to Japan, then oil, and then freezing Japanese assets in U.S. because of it's actions of aggression in Asia, which was an international concern
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Dec-2006 at 22:04
Originally posted by Sock Puppet Sock Puppet wrote:

what do ya mean, Pearl Harbor was an unprovoked terrorist attack by the half blind pilots of the yellow peril upon the last bastion of the Nordic Race, solely because they were jealous of the fact 'we are free, an they are not'. Hiroheto was simply the Bin Laden of his day. Well at least that what I learnt at school. [At this point, all fellow Americans please now shut off you brain and repeat those words 'we are free, we drink coke, the military needs more funding' 10 times as programmed to do at school, preferable while simultaneously, jacking off in front of a flag.]
 

really though, Dickface a'la, FDR, froze Japanese assets in US banks, and  cut off of Japanese oil supplies which if someone did to the US would be considered an act of war. It was by the Japanese at the time. Shame they never launched the attack on Washington instead.





The object of all of FDR's pre war moves was to get the Japanese to back off of China, and to restrict their economic growth if they did not. You should study the pre war political landscape of that era, Asia for Asians and other movements, very interesting material.
    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2007 at 12:56
Japan striked first in terms of military (Peral Harbour and other Southeastern Asian colonies) but it was US and Britain that attacked Japan economically. (Banning oil export to Japanese Empire). Japanese Empire attacked in desparation. Japan never expected a victory over US. Why do you think there are so many attempts (Historically and in ficition books) why Japanese wanted to bombard Washington? They wanted psychological warfare effective enough for Americans to be convinced that truce was necessary, which my opinion would simply enrage Americans even more.
     
   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2007 at 11:46
Originally posted by pekau pekau wrote:

Japan striked first in terms of military (Peral Harbour and other Southeastern Asian colonies) but it was US and Britain that attacked Japan economically. (Banning oil export to Japanese Empire). Japanese Empire attacked in desparation. Japan never expected a victory over US. Why do you think there are so many attempts (Historically and in ficition books) why Japanese wanted to bombard Washington? They wanted psychological warfare effective enough for Americans to be convinced that truce was necessary, which my opinion would simply enrage Americans even more.
 
 
 
Any economic sanctions imposed were designed to force the Japanese to retreat from China, leaving that out is disinformative.  Also, the Japanese had always intended to attack western holdings, they just had not determined to either, "Strike North", or "strike South".  There wasn't any "desparation" involved, their actions were carefully planned and thought out.  The thinking was that they could attack and hold certain western holdings, then quickly start negotiations and "sue for peace".
The only member of the General staff that objected was Yammamoto.  Having studied in the US, his opinion was that, "in all sports, Americans were trained to win, not to tie"  He knew if the US was attacked, there would be no truce.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dilvish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2007 at 13:53
alright this is everything i know and remember about pearl harbor without looking at wiki or google like some inept morons do.
 
First of all whoever thinks that the japanese invasion was one of the stupidest moves of the war or just plain stupid are stupid themselves, the japanese invasion wasd one of the most beautifully aeronautical invasions planned out in the history of mankind. Prior to the attack the japanese had prepared for a total of 6 months i believe. Then two weeks before the invasion the japanese moved some 500 miles to the north of the islands to wait their attack. The japanese were ready with hundreds of planes ready to go on ships at any moment. But the japanese wanted a 100% success rate so they waited until practically all of the planes on the islands left for some shipments back i the u.s.. this happened two days before the attack, on december 7th 1941 at 6 in the morning, the japanese began to make their way south. The first wave of planes arrived and were detected by a radar, but the morons at the ONLY watch tower to the north were slacking off and never payed attentio to the flock of approacking planes. Well how the plan was carried oput is the most important part not what was affected, we all know that the japanese did indeed have 100% success rate.
 
Well, that was my long and boring summary of the japanese invasion
 
 
 
NOw, i have some questios for you guys or at least the intellectuals in this forum without looking at wiki and maing inepts of yourselves.
 
Why did Japane attack the U.S.
and
Why wasn't the base secured?


Edited by Dilvish - 28-Jan-2007 at 13:58
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Siege Tower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2007 at 13:58
i think it's because of there sortage in fuel, as Red Clay mentioned , the allies started a sanction on Japan, and they were desparate. Japan's mistake would be not attacking soviet form far east, that way, they can distract soviet's attention in the western front and besides the coldness, there are resources, there are oil reservoirs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dilvish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2007 at 14:06

Well, the only resaon why Japan attacked the U.S. is an obvious one. It was in the middle of nowhere, it was practically a sitting duck just waitin to get bombed.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dilvish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2007 at 14:09
Tell me this if your in the procee of ruling practically have of the world and at a pace faster of that of German's wouldnt you attack a group of priceless ships totaling in billions of dollars at no expense except for fuel and bomb costs
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dilvish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2007 at 14:10
set aside the politics and teh sanctions for a mintue and think strategically in terms of war
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sonagi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2007 at 15:09
Not sure what you're aiming at Dilvish.  It seems like pointing out the obvious to state that the attack on Pearl Harbor was intended to cripple US naval power in the Pacific.  That explains the choice of Pearl Harbor.  The fact that the US and its allies had sought to isolate Japan for its territorial aggressions in Asia explains why the US fleet was a threat to Japan.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2007 at 15:20
Originally posted by Dilvish Dilvish wrote:

set aside the politics and teh sanctions for a mintue and think strategically in terms of war
 
 
Okay- You are a country that is less than a hundred years out of the Middle Ages, feudalism, knights etc.  You have a fair sized navy, a reasonable army and [for the era] an advanced airforce. Your arms however are already obsolete but that isn't an issue because to date every country you have set your sights on is just out of the flintlock era.
You need resources to feed your war machine, so you set about conquering those countries that have what you need.
Now, a country to the east of you that has interests of it's own says, No you don't.  So you make plans to attack it, fine.  The country you are going to attack has an area some 200 times that of your own country, about 50 times your population and has the greatest industrial potential of any country in the world.  Add to that the fact that it's resources are about 80% self contained.  We can think strategically, but it makes you wonder if the Japanese were.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dilvish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2007 at 15:25
yeah it does...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2007 at 16:47
Japanese made some mistakes in Pearl Harbour. They failed to sink every battleships in Hawaii. Due to Japan being nervous about America's counter, and the fact that Southeastern compaign wasn't going as smoothly as it should have been... they retreated... allowing Americans to repair many of the damaged battleships. But even if Japanese did wipe out the navy in Hawaii, that would have bought them more time. We are talking about German vs. Russians... except Germans were not as advance and Russians have tons of economical and wealth advantage. Japan would have lost anyway, unless they had brilliant generals like Rommel that could have halt the Americans in Pacific until Americans may ask for truce... it's the risky gamble that Japanese took.
 
Japanese attack to Soviet Union happened numerous times. Usually in Mongol... but they failed since Russians surrounded and wiped out Japanese invaders with numerical, technological advantage, as well as their troops' capability to withstand harsh environment. Japanese land armies were not advance as their navy. (And why not? Japan's most valuable army is sea, like Britain. It's geograpghy.)
     
   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2007 at 16:48
And honestly, what would Japanese Empire gain if they attacked Eastern part of Russia? Snow?LOL
     
   
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