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Forum LockedWho are "Zulkarneyn" and "Gog-Magog"?

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    Posted: 07-Mar-2005 at 11:59

Zulkarneyn is the name of a prophet whose name is found in Kuran_i Kerim. But there are lots of different comments about him from lots of Islamic thinkers and masters.

Literally, "Zulkarneyn" means both "the double horned man" and "the man of two ages, two times". "Karn" means both "horn" and "time, age", so the real meaning isnt clear. Some say that the "two horned" term is oftenly used by Arabs and Kuran as people lived in specific generations and ages, and also a term for power and proudness. Some say that he was called "two horned" on purpose to show his two horned headgear. So they think that he might be "Alexander the Great" or one of the "Himieri" kings of Yemen.

But the most important part is his punishment to Gog- Magog (Yajuj-Majuj). He was a traveller and he travelled lots of different civilizations, or worlds. In one of his journeys, he met with a nation who was complaining abot a tribe, called Ya-juj Ma-juj. So he built a kind of fortress by metal and stone to imprison them. But is is known that near to "Qiyamah", this tribe would melt the wall and be free, reach all over the world.

It is also said that the Gog and Magog were some asian tribes, which are mongoloids (according to the definitions) and the nation who wasnt imprisoned was Turks. Some Arabic beliefs also prove this. The old Arabic beliefs say even the name Turk was meaning "the ones left behind" or something like that as I heard. Maybe the ones who were rescued. Even some people believe that Zulkarneyn was a Turkish prophet in Kuran...

What do you think about them?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OSMANLI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Mar-2005 at 12:22

Selam,

I am very interested by your comments and i would like to know more.

I have heard that Zulkarneyn may or may not be a prophet as it Kur'an does not specify.

Also i have heard that Yahjuj & Mahjuj are in fact a Turkish tribe.

Other than that i have also read that Zulkarneyn may have been Alexander the Macedonian


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Mar-2005 at 13:09

http://www.lordmayorsshow.org/hist/gogmagog.shtml

gog and magog

Towards the head of the procession you will see two enormous but benevolent giants. They are Gog and Magog, the traditional guardians of the City of London who have been carried in the Lord Mayor's Show since the reign of Henry V. They are descended from the pagan giants of early English pageantry and their history is buried in the mysterious world of myth and legend.

The story goes that Diocletian - the Roman Emperor - had thirty-three wicked daughters, for whom he managed to find thirty-three husbands to curb their unruly ways. The daughters were dismayed, and under the leadership of their eldest sister Alba they plotted to cut the throats of their husbands as they slept.

For this crime they were set adrift in a boat with half a year's rations, and after a long and dreadful journey they arrived at the islands which came to be named Albion after the eldest. Here they stayed, co-habited with demons, and produced a race of evil giants to inhabit the wild, windswept islands.

Many early peoples regarded the original inhabitants of their territory as giants, and the memory of these early races was preserved in mythology. Heros became giants in the popular mind. They were often large and powerful men, and their physical strength and stature became exaggerated as their deeds passed into legend. The pagan giants were not ugly or deformed, they were simply giant men inhabiting a golden age of might and simplicity.

The story continues: Brutus, the great-grandson of neas, fled from Troy and by way of various scrapes arrived in these islands, which he renamed after himself; Britain. With him he brought his most able warrior and champion, Corineus, who fought the leader of the giant brood in single combat and eventually slew him by hurling him from a high rock into the sea.

The name of the giant was Gogmagog and the rock from which he was thrown became known as Langonagog or "The Giants Leap". As a reward Corineus was given the western part of the island, which became named after him; Cornwall. Brutus travelled to the east, where he built a city which he called Troya Nova, or New Troy, which eventually came to be known as London.

At one time human sacrifice was common, but as times grew more civilized, images of men were burned instead of the men themselves. Finally the figures received the name of the divinity in whose honour the feast was held; and in time these became saints' images. The custom of carrying effigies at various festivals became widespread, not only in England but on the continent. These giants of pageantry that you will see today are the last vestiges of the pagan effigies. Our giants have no trace of the supernatural about them, they originated in folk custom, deriving their names from historical or pseudo-historical characters like Gogmagog, from Biblical history like Samson, or from classical mythology like Hercules. They are a part of a tradition in English pageantry which pre-dates Christianity.

Another version of the story has it that these two giants were the last two survivors of the sons of the thirty-three infamous daughters of Diocletian, who were captured and kept chained to the gates of a palace on the site of Guildhall to act as guardians. Whichever way, they got there, we know that by the reign of Henry V, there were giants residing in Guildhall. And when in 1554, they appeared in the Lord Mayor's Show, the names Gogmagog and Corineus were attached to the London giants for the first time. The giant of folk-custom made an admirable champion and it was natural to develop a champion into a local hero.

In 1605 the Pageantmaster of the day alluded to the giants who appeared in the Procession on Lord Mayor's Day as Corineus and Gogmagog. And later in 1672, the Pageantmaster Thomas Jordan referred to them as "two exceeding rarities", and stated that "at the conclusion of the Show, they are to be set up in Guildhall, where they may be daily seen all year and I hope never to be demolished by such dismal violence as happened to their predecessors." He was referring to the destruction of much of the City by the great fire in 1666. His giants however only lasted a few years being made of wickerwork and pasteboard, in common with their sacrificial forebears, and were eventually destroyed by mice and rats.

They were replaced in 1708 by a magnificent pair of wooden statues carved by Captain Richard Saunders. These giants on whom the versions you will see today are based, lasted for over two hundred years before destruction in the blitz. They, in turn, were replaced by the pair which can now be seen in Guildhall, and which were carved by David Evans in 1953 as a gift to the City by Alderman Sir George Wilkinson who had been Lord Mayor in 1940, at the time of the destruction of the previous versions.

Gog and Magog symbolize one of many links between the modern business institutions of the City and its ancient history. This is but the most recent of their various re-births, which have long been symbolised by the phoenix on Magog's shield, representing return after fire. Today, the words of Thomas Boreman in his "Gigantick History" of 1741 are as appropriate as ever. He declared that "Corineus and Gogmagog were two brave giants who richly valued their honour and exerted their whole strength and force in the defence of their liberty and country; so the City of London, by placing these, their representatives in their Guildhall, emblematically declare, that they will, like mighty giants defend the honour of their country and liberties of this their City; which excels all others, as much as those huge giants exceed in stature the common bulk of mankind."

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Mar-2005 at 13:59

Zolqarnain was Cyrus the Great, read here: Understanding Islam

1) Cyrus is a personality mentioned in the Bible, i.e the Old Testament (the Book of Daniel, the Book of Ezra and some other books where Cyrus is referred to in very explicit terms: Daniel dreamt that in the palace of Susa in Elam, a two-horned ram triumphed over all animals, with the exception of a one-horned goat that finally defeated the ram. Daniel lost consciousness after this dream and an angel appeared to him, saying that the ram he had seen was the king of the Medes and the Persians, while the one-horned goat was the king of the Greeks) (Book of Daniel, chapter 8, verses 20-21).
4) In the Qur'an, Zolqarnain is described as someone to whom God granted power and authority on earth. This corresponds well with the personality of Cyrus, who conquered a large part of Europe and Asia, establishing the first empire in the world.
5) The Qur'an's Zolqarnain was God-revering and a monotheist, and so was Cyrus. As the most probable date for the appearance of Zoroaster is in the mid-sixth century B.C., this date is close to the time Cyrus lived.
6) Zolqarnain led a military expedition to the land west of the sun. This is consistent with the Achaemenian king's military thrusts in Lydia in Asia Minor and his conquest of that country.
7) Zolqarnain led a military expedition to the land east of the sun, corresponding to Cyrus's expedition to the southeast (Makran and Sistani) and northeast (near Balkh).
8) The Qur'an's Zolqarnain encountered a barbarian tribe and this is consistent with Cyrus's expedition to the north and his battles with the Sakas, who may be interpreted as the barbarian tribes of the Ya'jooj and Ma'jooj. Here, Cyrus defeated the barbarians and in the Daryal Pass, which was the only passage from which they could be attacked by their neighbors, he built a barrier made of copper and iron. The people under siege might have asked Cyrus for help and provided him with manpower.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Turk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Mar-2005 at 15:34
Originally posted by OSMANLI OSMANLI wrote:

Selam,

I am very interested by your comments and i would like to know more.

I have heard that Zulkarneyn may or may not be a prophet as it Kur'an does not specify.

Also i have heard that Yahjuj & Mahjuj are in fact a Turkish tribe.

Other than that i have also read that Zulkarneyn may have been Alexander the Macedonian



I need sources before I believe anything you guys said thus far.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Qamar Ariff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Mar-2009 at 03:28

Salam,

The topic about Zulqarnain and Gog Magog is indeed a very interesting one. Having read the various arguments on who Zulqarnain is, I tend to agree that the most likely candidate is indeed Cyrus the Great for the very same reasons that have been mentioned above. You have to look towards the Jewish and Biblical scriptures i.e. the Old Testament and the Torah to have a clue of who Zulqarnain was because the surah in the Quran relating to him arose due to the questions posed by the jewish leaders to the Prophet Muhammad SAW when they met him. As Cyrus was mentioned as Messiah who liberated the Jews from enslavement in Babylon and his many remarkable deeds during those times makes him the most likely candidate.

Anyway, I am more fascinated and intrigued about the other implication of the Surah Al Kahfi which relates to Zulqarnain that is he built a wall between two mountains to prevent Gog Magog to come over and pillage and plunder the land across the mountain. Many have said that the mountains is the Caucasus mountain that separates the Old Persian Empire then and what is now modern day Cechnya. That means Gog Mogog most likely lived north of the Caucasus mountain which was then inhabited by mainly warring and barbaric turkic tribes.
 
Interestingly enough, the tribes which lived north of the Caucasus mountain some time in the mid 700AD reorganised themselves into the Khazar empire who then converted into Judaism sometime in that period. There is a whole new set of research literature now about the Khazar people and the theory is that these Khazar were really the forefathers of the present day Askhenazi jews or the European white Jews. Do not take my word for it, go to www.khazaria.com and you will find a whole host of literature on the subject matter.  If true, what that means that these ashkenazi jews, the descendent of the Khazar tribes are more likely to be Gog Magog rather than semitic Isrealites or Bani Israel or mongolians descendent of Genghis Khan. These ashekenazi jews now run present day Isreal, Corporate America and perhaps also the American government. They make up about 90% of modern day jews in the world and basically have usurped the mantle of control from the arabic origin semitic jews. I have always wondered why many of these jewish people look more caucasian rather that semitic or arabic. The Shepardhic jews look semitic or arabic, the ashkenazi jews certainly don't . That is perhaps the reason why.
 
Anyway, that is just a theory, perhaps others have more to contribute.
 
Salam and regards,
 
Qamar Ariff 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GökTürk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-May-2009 at 20:36
In Islamic Culture(Of course in other cultures,but i dont know heros' names in other cultures) there are 2 good hero who their names are Hızır(İdris or Andreas) and İlyas.There are stories  which tells their adventures.Also there is one more hero in the stories.Zulkarneyn.Zulkarneyn's longer name is Iskender-i Zulkarneyn.Iskender is Alexander in Europen Languages.Iskender-i Zulkarneyn's life and Alexander the great's life are surprisingly similar.I think,A man named Zulkarneyn can be Alexander the great.

Edited by GökTürk - 21-May-2009 at 20:36
TENGRİ TEG TENGRİDE BOLMIŞ TÜRK BİLGE KAĞAN-
TURK WISE KHAN WHO BECAME IN SKY LIKE SKY-GOD
---
tengir ordo(people of Tengri-God-)                 
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