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Forum LockedWhite Huns (Hephthalites) settlements in Pakistan

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    Posted: 15-Sep-2007 at 18:57
The White Huns are often a poorly understood people as much of their contributions and accomplishment have been absorbed or quite simply hijacked by subsequent groups they subjugated at various times. 
 
Recently, many questions over their origins have been answered On May 24, 2007 when Professor Paul Harrison of Stanford University who is involved in the study of ancient manuscripts of Pakistan and Afghanistan discussed a copper scroll recently been translated and has since been published. This scroll, dated 492-493 AD is from the Hephthalite period, reveals that they were patrons of Buddhism and that their names were Iranian. The scroll mentions about a dozen names, including that of their king. So it appears that the long mystery has at last been solved and the Iranian origins of the Hephthalites has been confirmed, much as Enoki thought.  Previously there was some confusion over wether they where patrons of or antagonistic towards buddhism as well as the brahmins.  It is now believed, that since the White Huns burried their dead in proper graves, were avid agriculturalist and did not practice cremation, they  'tolerated' the Buddhist,  Zorastrian and animist practising population of Afghanistan and Pakistan.  The Hephthalites however held the ritualistic brahmans(hindus) in disdain and regularly massacred them.
 
I have recently been doing some research on this group and was hoping some of you can also contribute positively to the study of the ancient hephthalite rule over Afghanistan and Pakistan and the many contributions they have made. 
 
From historical data, we know that the White Huns (Hepththalites) entered Pakistan in successive waves around and after the 5th century.
 
Many are believed to have come from the fertile region located near the Oxus valley.  Naturally as they crossed through Afghanistan and into the trans Indus Pakistan region via the Khyber Pass and Bolan passes, many settled into the lush fertile land of Panjab and Sindh on either banks of the Indus River as well as in previous fertile regions of Kabul/Helmand and restarted their agricultural traditions which they were accustomed to.  They came in such great numbers that they soon came to dominate the region socially and politically.
 
In Afghanistan and Pakistan, the Hephthalites burried their dead in proper graves and lived side by side with the predominant Buddhist, Zorastrian and Animist culture(s) which they learned to tolerate despite having their own dieties and worshiping wind and fire.  Paradoxically, the Hephthalites held the minority hindu/brahmins in disdain and often persecuted them. 
 
Along with the White Huns, numerous affiliate tribes are said to have also come with them, including the Gurjaras whose decendents still live along the mountains of Free (Azad) Kashmir extending into Indian Occuppied Kashmir, many have intermixed with the Dardic, pre-white Hun Panjabi and Pashtun tribes.  Other major significant settlements are found in northern Panjab where certain urban centres still bare their names such as in Gujranwala and Gujrat city. 
 
Overall, It is commonly believed, that the Hepthalites have greatly contributed to the dominant tribes of stretching from the Oxus down through Afghanistan, into Pakistan upto Panjab and then down to Sindh.
 
Prior to expanding Eastward, they also went south west and helped the then Persian King (Firoz) to regain the throne for him, later Firoz goes to war with them, with his son taking sides and subsequently taking refuge with them.  Later, his son (Khudad) is installed on the throne with Ephthalite assistance.
 
Upon their conquering of Pakistan's Ghandaran region,  Hephthalites establish it as a viceroy (aka Tegin) setting it up as a centre of Hephthalite rule .  Once secure in Pakistan, the White Huns then attack the Gupta power to the east in india resulting in its defeat and subsequent conquering of indian territory for about 50 years before revolts take place and they are pushed back to Pakistan and Kashmir.  The Hephthalites often persecuted and held disdain for brahmins/hindu's , this policy and the failure of the White Huns to integrate into a social compromise as they did with the natives of Pakistan and Afghanistan, resulted in the revolt by gangetic Indians who where predominantly hindu/brahmin and the eventual break down of order and the subsequent receding of Hephthalite rule back to the Panjab.
 
One notable Ruler was Mehar Gul (Sunflower) whose capital was at Sakala, (modern day Sialkot) East of Gujranwala and North of Wazirabad.   To this day, many families bare the name Gul and some still show strikingly Central Asian features similar to what one would find in Persianized peoples from Bukhara, Samarkand and other areas close to the Oxus, in these clearly Panjabi / Pashtun towns and villages.  Though thoroughly 'Panjabi-ized' and integrated into the mainstream Panjabi as well as Pashtun culture (in the respective NWFP province, and in Afghanistan), many modern day scholars are theorizing that the DNA amongst some of these families is relatively intact due to inter-tribal marriages which have indirectly maintained genetic purity. 
 
Im curious as to wether certain other tribal names are hephthalite in origin, such as Hans, Gul and many others which have not yet been established as being hephthalite in origin due to lack of information(as only a dozen or so hephthalite specific words are known to us, one of which is ''hephthalite'' itself!) or as is common in South Asia, the hijacking of culture or absorption by another.
 
Nonetheless, the White Huns are truly an interesting people and I hope we can all learn more about their lives and contributions through this thread.
 
Looking forward to positive (and I must plead! only Factual information lol!) contributions on the subject
 
MarcoPolo :) 
 
 
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The more I research I do into our great Mer (also known as Mihir/Mehar/Mhair/Mair/Mher/Maher) the more I realize that my ancestors were part of shaping the important boundaries & also took part of battles that were vital at the time.  Like kshtriya-Mer pointed in the topic named “Origins of the great Maitrika Dynasty of Gujarate” the links between the Mihirs (our ancestors) & the Maitraka Dynasty are strong.

My view is based upon two main respected historical scholars firstly A. F.  Rudolf Hoernie & the well known Sir A. Cunningham’s theory as follows:

The emperors of Kanauj were indeed Tomaras & further they were a clan of the Gurjara tribe. There are only two old inscriptions, one is the Pehewa inscription of the time Mahendrapala (c. 885-910 AD), and the second one is the Harsha inscription of the Chohan Vigraharaja, dated 973 A.D which would fall into the reign of Vijaypala (c. 950 – 975). The Tomaras were Gurjars were the Kachhwahas (found as Keshwalas in the Mer community) and the Parihars, they all decend from the Javula King Toramana or rather were clans or divisions of Javula tribe, in which case the Javulas would be Gurjaras.

It has been accepted as an undoubted fact that Toramana was the king of the Hunas (White Huns or Ephthalites).  The Hunas are no doubt mentioned in numerous old Indian inscriptions, but the only Indian evidence connecting the Toramana with the Hunas is the Mandasor inscription of 535 A.D . This inscription, though it does not say so suggests that Mihirakula the son of Toramana whom Yasodharman  defeted was the king or leader of the Hunas. Dr Fleet has suggested that the Maitrakas i.e. the Mihiras (the modern day Mers), were the particular family or clan amon the Hunas to which the Toramana and Mihirkula belonged. Moreover the Mihiras (Mers or Mehars) were “attached from time of immemorial to the Jethwa Rajputs”, who are only the “senior” (Jethwa) or Rajakula (royal clan) of the Mehars.

Above information is really interesting due to still today the Jethwas are to be found within the Mer community and they are indeed known as the Rajshakhas within our community.  Mr Bhandarkar has shown that there is good reason to believe that the Solankis (Chaulunkas), Parihars (Prathiharas), Parmars (Parmars), and Chohans (Chahumanas or Chahuvanas), the four so called Agnikula clans of Rajputs are really or were originally divisions of the Gurjaras. To these the Tomaras may now be added as another Gurjara division and there is still another clan which may also be added to the list, this is the Kachhwahas (Kacchapaghatas).

Conclusion:

Firstly and foremost the most respected scolar within our Mer community was Maldev Ranabhai Keshwala respectfully known as Maldev Bapu  who had done extensive research on Mer heritage and history by the help of the Mer Bards (known in Gujarat as Barots) been able to trace our ancestry. In his all india Mer Conferenc (Akhil Baratiya Mer Parishad) speech in February 1955 hes exact words were “Referring to the historical past of the Mers, he said that the historians called them Maitraka, meaning descendants of the son of God. He also stated “Among the Gurjars we were known as Mihir. In fact we all are Rajputs, and are counted as one of the thirty sic clans of the Rajputs.

AP Singh, the most exceptional evidence that many have failed to link us Mers to the Gurjars and to the Huns is to be found within our clans.  You see Mr A. F.  Rudolf Hoernie & Sir A. Cunningham’s theory is as accurate as it can be due to all four Agnikula clans (Parmars, Chauhans, Prathiahars, & Solanki)  are to be found within the Mer community form ancient times. To further to my amazement the Keshwalas/Kuthwahas which has always said to be the asl (initial clan) Mers is to be found within the also as a Gurjar Gotra/Surname/Clan. Further the Jethwas which above scholars also mentioned is to be found within our Mer community, I hardly believe this is a coincidence and my conclusion is based upon all above facts that modern day Mers ancestors were indeed the Mihirs who were of the White Huns are said to claim ancestry from the Kushans which would explain that the Maitrakas are of Kushan origin. The Mers are said to be the generals among the Gurjars.

What are your thoughts on above post, can we conclude that the modern day Mers are one of the divisions to the Gurjars?

 

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I think what Polo is getting at is that historically, when a wave of migration unto an indigenous region occured, there surfaced either an abrasive response or a kind of assimilation of the incoming culture group. The latter is seen throughout history...example - the 'Arabization' of the Middle East. In this particular example, the Pre-Islamic Middle East held contempt for their Roman/Byzantine rulers. When the wave of Arabs/Islam came, the locals easily replaced those customs imosed upon them by their foreign rulers with the new Arab customs/culture. In the case of Hephthalite migration, as Polo points out, there existed disdain for hindu/brahmin culture, thus halting Brahminical cultural expansion whilst preserving the Northwestern Culture Group of the Asian Subcontinent.
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@LordMer@ 
 
I've never been a big fan of these ''Cut & Paste'' posts as I get a little sceptical about the sources of these articles which tend to be quite sensational and often promote/encourage a revisionist history or support oral traditions that often lack accuracy or truth.  A common occurence nowadays.  Also, I couldnt quite follow your post!
 
Where did you get this information from?
 
 
@Partisan Rebel

You got the right idea!
 
It appears that the people inhabiting the Indus Valley in todays modern Pakistan as well as certain other geographical regions of South Asia (@ modern day Bangladesh) where more ''appreciative'' of new religions and foreign tribes versus say the gangetic regions which were predominantly hindu in religion. 
 
At one point in time, Hindu scriptures such as the ancient Vedas, Puranas and/or even the Upanishads state that if a Hindu were to travel to the Panjab or Indus of todays Pakistan, they would ''cease'' to be Hindu and would have to undergo a series of intense re-purification processes on their return to Gangetic India.  So it appears the disdain was held by both parties.  Its interesting, because many people today point to modern politics (i.e. independence from Britain and establishment of the modern republic or India and Pakistan, Kashmir conflict etc..) as the root cause of antagonism between these two South Asian rivals, but in reality, the people(s) of the two country have had differing and antagonistic viewpoints / relations for several thousand years!
 
Even when Emperor Ashoka entered the region of Pakistan and consolidated it, he was only able to do so upon his conversion to Buddhism.  As a Hindu, many scholars believe, he wouldnt have been able to have consolidated such a vast region.  In effect, he ended up ''joining'' and adopting the ways of the Indus Valley inhabitants.
 
Going back to the topic of this thread:
 
When the Hephthalite's first arrived, they shared with the locals a common disdain for brahminical rule and Hindu practices despite themselves not being great fans, initially of Buddhism or Zorastrianism (then the main religion of Pakistan), they eventually came to terms with it and in many cases, subsequently became fervent followers of the teaching of Buddha.
 
Later the hephthalites made significant contributions to Buddhist art and helped encourage its spread along the ancient Silk route in Pakistan north and became involved in regional politics then prevailent.
 
Furthermore, Hephthalite coins later show that they eventually adopted the local Buddhist/pagan culture of Pakistan.  (let me see if I can find a pic of a hephthalite coin found in Pakistan that shows Buddhist markings)
 
 
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Originally posted by MarcoPolo MarcoPolo wrote:

 
 
Recently, many questions over their origins have been answered On May 24, 2007 when Professor Paul Harrison of Stanford University who is involved in the study of ancient manuscripts of Pakistan and Afghanistan discussed a copper scroll recently been translated and has since been published. This scroll, dated 492-493 AD is from the Hephthalite period, reveals that they were patrons of Buddhism and that their names were Iranian. The scroll mentions about a dozen names, including that of their king. So it appears that the long mystery has at last been solved and the Iranian origins of the Hephthalites has been confirmed, much as Enoki thought.  Previously there was some confusion over wether they where patrons of or antagonistic towards buddhism as well as the brahmins.  It is now believed, that since the White Huns burried their dead in proper graves, were avid agriculturalist and did not practice cremation, they  'tolerated' the Buddhist,  Zorastrian and animist practising population of Afghanistan and Pakistan.  The Hephthalites however held the ritualistic brahmans(hindus) in disdain and regularly massacred them.
 
 
These findings are really surprising as the destruction of Buddhist shrines as observed by Hieun t Sang is attributed to Huns also I don't think there is an evidence that Huns targeted Brahmans not buddhists these are far stretched conclusion as per  my understanding.
 
 
 
 
 
Quote Many are believed to have come from the fertile region located near the Oxus valley.  Naturally as they crossed through Afghanistan and into the trans Indus Pakistan region via the Khyber Pass and Bolan passes, many settled into the lush fertile land of Panjab and Sindh on either banks of the Indus River as well as in previous fertile regions of Kabul/Helmand and restarted their agricultural traditions which they were accustomed to.  They came in such great numbers that they soon came to dominate the region socially and politically.
 
There are no indication that they came in great numbers to dominate these regions socially and politically .They might have come in hordes that got absorbed in local population but great  numbers I doubt.
 
Quote In Afghanistan and Pakistan, the Hephthalites burried their dead in proper graves and lived side by side with the predominant Buddhist, Zorastrian and Animist culture(s) which they learned to tolerate despite having their own dieties and worshiping wind and fire.  Paradoxically, the Hephthalites held the minority hindu/brahmins in disdain and often persecuted them. 
 
 
Where is proof of persecution of Brahmans ,on the contrary Huns were actively supported by Brahmans to settle scores with prevalent Buddhist faith of Indus region.
 
Quote Along with the White Huns, numerous affiliate tribes are said to have also come with them, including the Gurjaras whose decendents still live along the mountains of Free (Azad) Kashmir extending into Indian Occuppied Kashmir, many have intermixed with the Dardic, pre-white Hun Panjabi and Pashtun tribes.  Other major significant settlements are found in northern Panjab where certain urban centres still bare their names such as in Gujranwala and Gujrat city.
 
 
There is a confusion about Gujjars whether they owe their name from Gujjar region of Gujarat rajasthan area or from gujaristan called Georgia but I would be interested if any one can show me how he knew that gujjar accompanied Huns and their southward migration in to Indo pak areas. 
 
Quote Overall, It is commonly believed, that the Hepthalites have greatly contributed to the dominant tribes of stretching from the Oxus down through Afghanistan, into Pakistan upto Panjab and then down to Sindh.
 
I would be interested to know what is the base of this common belief??
 
 
 
 
Quote   The Hephthalites often persecuted and held disdain for brahmins/hindu's , this policy and the failure of the White Huns to integrate into a social compromise as they did with the natives of Pakistan and Afghanistan, resulted in the revolt by gangetic Indians who where predominantly hindu/brahmin and the eventual break down of order and the subsequent receding of Hephthalite rule back to the Panjab.
 
No real foundation for such conclusions.
 
Quote One notable Ruler was Mehar Gul (Sunflower) whose capital was at Sakala, (modern day Sialkot) East of Gujranwala and North of Wazirabad.   To this day, many families bare the name Gul and some still show strikingly Central Asian features similar to what one would find in Persianized peoples from Bukhara, Samarkand and other areas close to the Oxus, in these clearly Panjabi / Pashtun towns and villages.  Though thoroughly 'Panjabi-ized' and integrated into the mainstream Panjabi as well as Pashtun culture (in the respective NWFP province, and in Afghanistan), many modern day scholars are theorizing that the DNA amongst some of these families is relatively intact due to inter-tribal marriages which have indirectly maintained genetic purity.
 
 
Who are Guls in present Pakistan ? 
 
Quote Im curious as to wether certain other tribal names are hephthalite in origin, such as Hans, Gul and many others which have not yet been established as being hephthalite in origin due to lack of information(as only a dozen or so hephthalite specific words are known to us, one of which is ''hephthalite'' itself!) or as is common in South Asia, the hijacking of culture or absorption by another.
 
 
Hans are Jats
 
Quote Nonetheless, the White Huns are truly an interesting people and I hope we can all learn more about their lives and contributions through this thread.
 
Looking forward to positive (and I must plead! only Factual information lol!) contributions on the subject
 
MarcoPolo :) 
 
 
 
 
As per my info Tomars and  probably Bal maitrikas are Huns .
 
 What you think about the  current Identity of Huns in present day populations .


Edited by Azat - 23-Sep-2007 at 11:46
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Interseting the impact that the Hephthalites had in the spread of Budhism in the Indus Valley and Northwards (late fifth to early sixth centuries C.E.). Accounts by Chinese travelers, such as Songyun (early sixth century) and Xuanzang (ca. 600–664), report that Buddhism continued to prosper despite the damage done during the Hephthalite conquest. Xuanzang singles out the Lokottaravaada branch of the Mahasamghika School as being particularly influential at Bamiyan, where two colossal Buddha statues, destroyed by the Taliban in 2001, may have expressed the distinct buddhological views of this school.
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Okay I have been busy for the last few days and have not given this place as much attention as necessary, but Lord Mer, copy paste is strictly forbidden here. I will let this go; this time, provided you make the necessary adjusments required in the CoC for posting articles, withinn 72 hours or the next time you log in, whichever is first, otherwise this thread is kaput.

 
11. Plagiarism, the posting of texts found elsewhere without naming either author or source. Posting your own personal commentary is encouraged when copy/pasting from another source. When pasting attempt to place the content in quotes, highlight or underline for presentation purposes. Provide a correct URL link. When referencing from books or periodicals provide the title of the reference, the author and publication date. Posts where the paste is the arguement itself, while not adhering to these requirements, will be deleted. 

 

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Originally posted by MarcoPolo MarcoPolo wrote:

The White Huns are often a poorly understood people as much of their contributions and accomplishment have been absorbed or quite simply hijacked by subsequent groups they subjugated at various times. 
 
Recently, many questions over their origins have been answered On May 24, 2007 when Professor Paul Harrison of Stanford University who is involved in the study of ancient manuscripts of Pakistan and Afghanistan discussed a copper scroll recently been translated and has since been published. This scroll, dated 492-493 AD is from the Hephthalite period, reveals that they were patrons of Buddhism and that their names were Iranian. The scroll mentions about a dozen names, including that of their king. So it appears that the long mystery has at last been solved and the Iranian origins of the Hephthalites has been confirmed, much as Enoki thought.  Previously there was some confusion over wether they where patrons of or antagonistic towards buddhism as well as the brahmins.  It is now believed, that since the White Huns burried their dead in proper graves, were avid agriculturalist and did not practice cremation, they  'tolerated' the Buddhist,  Zorastrian and animist practising population of Afghanistan and Pakistan.  The Hephthalites however held the ritualistic brahmans(hindus) in disdain and regularly massacred them.
 
I have recently been doing some research on this group and was hoping some of you can also contribute positively to the study of the ancient hephthalite rule over Afghanistan and Pakistan and the many contributions they have made. 
 
From historical data, we know that the White Huns (Hepththalites) entered Pakistan in successive waves around and after the 5th century.
 
Many are believed to have come from the fertile region located near the Oxus valley.  Naturally as they crossed through Afghanistan and into the trans Indus Pakistan region via the Khyber Pass and Bolan passes, many settled into the lush fertile land of Panjab and Sindh on either banks of the Indus River as well as in previous fertile regions of Kabul/Helmand and restarted their agricultural traditions which they were accustomed to.  They came in such great numbers that they soon came to dominate the region socially and politically.
 
In Afghanistan and Pakistan, the Hephthalites burried their dead in proper graves and lived side by side with the predominant Buddhist, Zorastrian and Animist culture(s) which they learned to tolerate despite having their own dieties and worshiping wind and fire.  Paradoxically, the Hephthalites held the minority hindu/brahmins in disdain and often persecuted them. 
 
Along with the White Huns, numerous affiliate tribes are said to have also come with them, including the Gurjaras whose decendents still live along the mountains of Free (Azad) Kashmir extending into Indian Occuppied Kashmir, many have intermixed with the Dardic, pre-white Hun Panjabi and Pashtun tribes.  Other major significant settlements are found in northern Panjab where certain urban centres still bare their names such as in Gujranwala and Gujrat city. 
 
Overall, It is commonly believed, that the Hepthalites have greatly contributed to the dominant tribes of stretching from the Oxus down through Afghanistan, into Pakistan upto Panjab and then down to Sindh.
 
Prior to expanding Eastward, they also went south west and helped the then Persian King (Firoz) to regain the throne for him, later Firoz goes to war with them, with his son taking sides and subsequently taking refuge with them.  Later, his son (Khudad) is installed on the throne with Ephthalite assistance.
 
Upon their conquering of Pakistan's Ghandaran region,  Hephthalites establish it as a viceroy (aka Tegin) setting it up as a centre of Hephthalite rule .  Once secure in Pakistan, the White Huns then attack the Gupta power to the east in india resulting in its defeat and subsequent conquering of indian territory for about 50 years before revolts take place and they are pushed back to Pakistan and Kashmir.  The Hephthalites often persecuted and held disdain for brahmins/hindu's , this policy and the failure of the White Huns to integrate into a social compromise as they did with the natives of Pakistan and Afghanistan, resulted in the revolt by gangetic Indians who where predominantly hindu/brahmin and the eventual break down of order and the subsequent receding of Hephthalite rule back to the Panjab.
 
One notable Ruler was Mehar Gul (Sunflower) whose capital was at Sakala, (modern day Sialkot) East of Gujranwala and North of Wazirabad.   To this day, many families bare the name Gul and some still show strikingly Central Asian features similar to what one would find in Persianized peoples from Bukhara, Samarkand and other areas close to the Oxus, in these clearly Panjabi / Pashtun towns and villages.  Though thoroughly 'Panjabi-ized' and integrated into the mainstream Panjabi as well as Pashtun culture (in the respective NWFP province, and in Afghanistan), many modern day scholars are theorizing that the DNA amongst some of these families is relatively intact due to inter-tribal marriages which have indirectly maintained genetic purity. 
 
Im curious as to wether certain other tribal names are hephthalite in origin, such as Hans, Gul and many others which have not yet been established as being hephthalite in origin due to lack of information(as only a dozen or so hephthalite specific words are known to us, one of which is ''hephthalite'' itself!) or as is common in South Asia, the hijacking of culture or absorption by another.
 
Nonetheless, the White Huns are truly an interesting people and I hope we can all learn more about their lives and contributions through this thread.
 
Looking forward to positive (and I must plead! only Factual information lol!) contributions on the subject
 
MarcoPolo :) 
 
 
 
I've also been studying the Ephtalites origins and histories.  During their reign, Buddhism was on a steady decline and Hinduism crept in.   Ironically, the Buddhist statues in Afghanistan that were destroyed by the Taliban were built during the Ephtalite period.  Which means, no matter how inherently they were against Buddhism at first, they did tolerate it in Bamian and surrounding areas.    Since they were nomadic, they had settlements all over Afghanistan, and one of the regions they were known to inhabit was Ghor.  Interestly enough, when the first Muslims arrived in the region, the people of Ghor were pagan and war-like, much like the Epthalites.
 
Those Kharosthi scrolls that were recently uncovered (with Iranian names) were from Afghanistan and smuggled abroad to Norway where it was under safe keeping by a collector. 
 
The millionaire owner allowed the scrolls to be studied in a limited basis, but is afraid that since it is smuggled out of Afghanistan, it might be confiscated and not returned, therefore he is not letting scientists study them any further outside of his watch.
 
 
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There are so many mers in Gujarat too., still living.
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..Interesting! I was just wondering about the "white Huns" actually. I'd read a alternate-history book by Eric Flint...a series, actually-in which the White Huns, whom are often referred to as "Ye-tai" have a pretty prominent role...

I ended up wondering about their culture, habits, society, and so on... this thread is thus quite interesting.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ashokharsana Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Nov-2007 at 03:32
Originally posted by MarcoPolo MarcoPolo wrote:

Along with the White Huns, numerous affiliate tribes are said to have also come with them, including the Gurjaras whose decendents still live along the mountains of Free (Azad) Kashmir extending into Indian Occuppied Kashmir, many have intermixed with the Dardic, pre-white Hun Panjabi and Pashtun tribes.  Other major significant settlements are found in northern Panjab where certain urban centres still bare their names such as in Gujranwala and Gujrat city. 
 
 
Some people can comment but i must inform you that u should read about Gujjars or gurjaras in Royal Gujjar thread (the most famous thread under the south asia forum, Now locked)
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SuN. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Nov-2007 at 04:44
Originally posted by ashokharsana ashokharsana wrote:

 
 (the most famous thread under the south asia forum, Now locked)
 
Regards


Most famous, now locked. The more proper word would be 'notoriuous'
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ashokharsana Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Nov-2007 at 05:12
Originally posted by SuN. SuN. wrote:

Originally posted by ashokharsana ashokharsana wrote:

 
 (the most famous thread under the south asia forum, Now locked)
 
Regards


Most famous, now locked. The more proper word would be 'notoriuous'
 
Badnam honge toh kya naam na hoga
English: being infamous is another way of getting Publicity.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarcoPolo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Nov-2007 at 14:50
Originally posted by Afghanan Afghanan wrote:

 
 
I've also been studying the Ephtalites origins and histories.  During their reign, Buddhism was on a steady decline and Hinduism crept in.   Ironically, the Buddhist statues in Afghanistan that were destroyed by the Taliban were built during the Ephtalite period.  Which means, no matter how inherently they were against Buddhism at first, they did tolerate it in Bamian and surrounding areas.    Since they were nomadic, they had settlements all over Afghanistan, and one of the regions they were known to inhabit was Ghor.  Interestly enough, when the first Muslims arrived in the region, the people of Ghor were pagan and war-like, much like the Epthalites.
 
Those Kharosthi scrolls that were recently uncovered (with Iranian names) were from Afghanistan and smuggled abroad to Norway where it was under safe keeping by a collector. 
 
The millionaire owner allowed the scrolls to be studied in a limited basis, but is afraid that since it is smuggled out of Afghanistan, it might be confiscated and not returned, therefore he is not letting scientists study them any further outside of his watch.
 
 
 
Thanks for the interest guys, (sorry abt the delay in response, I went to my village for a few weeks for the holidays).
 
Isnt it a marvel to see how much knowledge and information we can extrapulate from scrolls, ancient artifacts that many here simply sell off and/or smuggle out of the country.  Without those scrolls much of the hephthalite story would have always remained a mystery or mere speculation.  Scrolls allow us to prove/disprove theories and move one step closer to understanding our past.
 
Its unfortunate, but many documents pertaining to the region have been smuggled out particularly from Afghanistan (@25+ years of war is a windfall for international smugglers); even here in Pakistan, smugglers where doing brisk and often open business till about 10 years ago and im sure much must still be taking place.  It requires a collective effort on all our people to value and keep our treasured history within our own lands.
 
Despite all this, great progress has been made in recent years especially in improving archeological techniques and databasing in several departments in the country, notably Peshawer, Taxila as well as in Lahore and of course Karachi which has been the result of greater international support and interaction, additionally, much has improved in the archeological department in Kabul as well with greater funds/awareness helping to reverse the damage.  What is required is consistency and persistence which im sure will reveal more and more about the life and customs of the once very influential Hephthalite people(s). 
 
On another note, while the Hephthalite's were nomadic and settled vast swathes of territory from as far as todays Pakistani Panjab and Sindh province and as far west as the Hazara Jat region of Bamian, I find it odd that no single area or region contains any pure blood lines of these peoples (perhaps im mistaken, and some do exist but are not fully aware of it); the reason I curious about this is that many tribes in these countries still refuse to marry outside of their clans and technically as such, if they where originally pure, would remain so to this day as a result of this tradition. Anyhow, until a thorough cataloguing and DNA sampling is not undertaken of each district (which costs lots of $$$$ and is a mamoth task!), I guess we'll never truly know. Unhappy


Edited by MarcoPolo - 15-Nov-2007 at 14:53
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ashokharsana Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Feb-2009 at 13:01
Hepthals is not the accurate word. The actual word was Apdals or ABDALIS. The current Abdalis are the direct descendents of the Hepthal. Its not just a "sounds similar" theory. Its a fact.
 
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Ashok Harsana
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zomaan Shilogh Dyak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Mar-2009 at 11:48
Fascinating, I have always been interested in the White Huns and the kingdom they established in the Indus Basin.
 
Did the White Huns control the present Day Xinjiang region of Chian as well? I have seen some maps on the internet that indicate this?
Chaaghli Ay Chaagh Mo Korey, Yarkhun O Darband Aa Asum

Surkhum Sthor Ma Mulo, Pong Lakhee Alghaan Aa Asum, Gaah-e-Badakhshan Aa Asum
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