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Forum LockedWhere is Afghanistan Headed?

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Gharanai View Drop Down
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    Posted: 26-Dec-2008 at 13:33
Originally posted by Suren

Well I think Afghanistan need a powerful leader better be a dictator to weld the country again; otherwise it doesn't work.

Iran has its own problems and has no interest in taking territories from Afghanistan. Treat your people well and you may have a unified country. I have seen many discussion and fights between afghanis on the net, but have not seen any in person. The only concern that I have in Afghanistan is the process of destroying the Persian(dari) language which may cause problem for the people and afghan unitiy. Afghan government better have a good approach toward this. I wish you guys a better future and government (ofcourse not Talibans).Wink
 
Dear Suren,
I find you words and concerns more intellectual than that of conservative.
About a dictator in power, I totally agree with you as that has always worked of us the Afghans and that's the main concern that there are talks going on with the Taleban so that a powerful and centralized government could be established with some powerful elements of Taleban in cabinet.
 
As far as the Afghans on net are concerned, I would like to let you know most of them are not Afghans put portray themselves as Afghans and if you ask them about some simple questions which may attest their claim of being Afghans they will start showing their true face.
Most of them are simple like a stage drama, which is made to just put some more oil on the fire of disunity of Afghans, but intellectual and litrate Afghans can simple get the main conspiracy behind it and can simply understand who is behind it.
 
Regarding the Dari lanugage, majority (more than 60-70 %) of us Afghans can understand and speak it while we have never had any dispute with the language.
But to be honest it's mostly the Iranian langual occupation which is trying to establish a dispute.
A simple example could be that since years (24 years as far as I know of my own experience) we are using the word "Pohantun" for University and which is a pashtu word and it has been used by all ethnics of Afghanistan. But now there rise some people who say it should be "Daneshga", which is a FARSI not DARI word.
There is where the dispute starts, where most Afghans defy using those words instead of those norms that we have being using since years and years.
 
So to be specific I would just like to tell you that it's just a way of destabilizing the country and nothing more, as those are simple NOT DARI Words.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Conservative Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Dec-2008 at 14:15
Originally posted by Gharanai

Dear Cons.
I don't know how many Tajiks have you interacted with, 10s, 100s or 1000s ? But to enlight your knowledge there are millions of Tajiks living in Afghanistan so it does not matter what at most 1000s think what matters is what the majority thinks.
 
As far as you are worried for the Tajiks', Uzbeks' and Hazaras' future under Taleban extreamism then you should be more concerned about the 70.5 million poor Iranians who have been living under Extreamist rule since 1979 (the so called Islamic Revolution), so don't petty for Afghan Tajiks but for your own people who are living under that extreamism for almost 30 years.
 
And as far as you are worried about the effects of terrorism on Iran, then I would like to tell you that Iran was the mother of current terrorism in the reign.
It was the Islamic Revolution of Iran which changed and influenced the mentality of Afghans and it was Iran who supported Hekmatyar and Ahmad Shah Masood during the 80s and 90s, and it was Hekmatyar and Ahmad Shah Masood who broke the country into pieces and distroyed the basic infrastructure of Afghanistan.
 
And it has always been Iran, whether it's in Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq or Phallistine, who divide the muslims and use them to fight against each other in the names of Sunni and Shai.
 
So please don't lecture us regarding the terrorism, and as far as the norcotics are concerned I would simple tell you in a single line that; "When there is a demand, there is production!".
So don't blame Afghanistan and instead try to stop your youth generation from using it.
 
Oh and not to forget, as far as the Afghan Refugees are concerned, I would simply enlight you that it's the UN who is paying Iranian Government for each single refugee in Iran as well as Pakistan and other countries.
And Iran intead of giving that money to the needy people who by the mercy of Iran has lost their own homes and relatives and are now living in the camps, use that money to increase it war arseanl.
 
 

 
The regime in Iran has committed crimes and excesses since taking power. We all know that. That issue however, has no relation to what is being discussed on this topic. The regime, though extreme, is not comparable to the level barbarism, fanaticism and ethno-fascism of the Taliban.
 
The Tajiks i have interacted with are few. I do not claim to speak on their behalf and neither does it interest me to do so. But with that said i am not convinced of anything you say to the contrary about how disunited and explosive Afghanistan is. I am not convinced either that Iran bears any responsibility for the crises that is Afghanistan. Do you really expect anyone to believe that the Iranian regime had any desire or capability to influence events in Afghanistan just after the 1978 and 1979 revolutions and when Iran was locked into an 8 year war with Saddam's Iraq? One of the regimes motivations for its excesses and repression in Iran during the 1980s was because of its insecurity and the very real possibility of it being toppled internally by opposition; let alone being ousted by foreign threats from Saddam and the US. It is strange to hear from you that the chaos in Afghanistan is down to 'Iranian influence with changed the mentality of Afghans'. I know that this isnt true, so dont expect me to believe it. I am also sure that you know that this isnt true either, so dont argue just for the sake of arguing. The regime had not even fully consolidated itself and Iran was in no position to significantly influence events in Afghanistan during the 1980s.
 
You should not feel so insecure that i would back Tajik moves for self-determination. Just because i would back it doesn't mean that the Iranian regime would. I can only hope they would if a situation arises where the US attempts to re-impose the Taliban on the non-Pashtuns. Your defensive attitude and apparent assumption of the worst possible outcome of such a scenario (ie Tajik independence) is very revealing to me about what you must really think and know about how non-Pashtuns feel about living with the Pashtuns in a single state; Afghanistan. You missed the whole point of my original post and your attitude has only confirmed my initial suspicions about Afghanistan's lack of any sense of having a national identity or unity, which i think has been obvious for decades that it doesn't in fact have.
 
Iran will continue to watch and try to influence events in the current Afghan war - this is out of your hands and mine and i am only stating what is a fact here. As far as my personal views go, you can disagree that is no problem for me. But dont thin that spreading lies about Iran as a counter-point is going to change my views. Im sure we're all old enough here to shoot them down and they cant phase me or any other Iranian on this forum.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Conservative Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Dec-2008 at 14:34
Originally posted by Gharanai

A simple example could be that since years (24 years as far as I know of my own experience) we are using the word "Pohantun" for University and which is a pashtu word and it has been used by all ethnics of Afghanistan. But now there rise some people who say it should be "Daneshga", which is a FARSI not DARI word.
There is where the dispute starts, where most Afghans defy using those words instead of those norms that we have being using since years and years.
 
So to be specific I would just like to tell you that it's just a way of destabilizing the country and nothing more, as those are simple NOT DARI Words.
 
If you're referring about the Balkh university incident then i was told by some Tajiks that they have finally got the Persian word, Daneshgah, on the banner ontop of their university. If true, then i am happy for them.


Edited by Conservative - 26-Dec-2008 at 14:35
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Dec-2008 at 14:55
Hello Conservative
 
Marco explained, I think, why India is interested in making Afghanistan unstable, because Pakistan will suffer the consequenses. Now how Iran benifits from unstability, that is a bit more complicated.
 
A stable unified Afghanistan will make Pakistani influence in the region much stronger. Baluchis who are not in love with the current regime in Iran and have been rebelling for a while might tke the chance and demand unity with Pakistan since most Baluchis are there.
 
But what is even more clear is the role that a unified Afghanistan can play in any future central Asian pipeline. Iran is losing its oil fast and it is suspected that Central Asian countries have much more oil than currently thought. Now oil has to be exported and the only way other than Iran is Afghanistan.
 
Destabilising Afghanistan is a corner stone in strategic Iranian thinking and I would do exactly the same if I were from them. Just imagine how many billions will come if that line chose the shorter Iranian path.
 
Now your opposite argument is Iran is hurting from this chaos. The drug epidemic is reaching alarming rates but waite a second, Iran itself is benifiting from the drug trade, at least the regime is. Iraq was floded by cheap and high quality processed opium since the invasion. The drug problem in the south of the country has reached epidemic rates as well. In Saudi Arabia and Kuwaite there is enough evidence that Iranian intelligence is involved in the trade. Now I am not a conspiracy theory advocate but intelligence services around the world have been known to use drugs and I doubt that Iran is an exception.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Gharanai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Dec-2008 at 20:06
Originally posted by Conservative

 
If you're referring about the Balkh university incident then i was told by some Tajiks that they have finally got the Persian word, Daneshgah, on the banner ontop of their university. If true, then i am happy for them.
 
As far as your previous post I would just tell you that; "be it then seen by the world whether Afghans (ALL ETHNICS LIVING UNDER AFGHANISTAN'S NAME) would stand for the proposal of allying Taleban for the stability of the region or not.".
 
And I am sure that most of the fellow forumers do know why Iranians really don't want to see Taleban back in power, because along side with Sadam on the west they really had a great fear of Taleban on east. Now most of you guys would be saying WHY?
That's mainly because during the Taleban reign entire country (more than 95% with just Panjsher vally as an exception) was under one single rule and was in order and much much more stable than today.
While beside that maybe some of people around may also know about the small skirmish on the western Afghan border with the Iranian where a very small force of Taleban under Mullah Daduallah entered Iranian terrority, defeated the so called strong Sepah Pasdaran Inqelab Islam or Army of the Guardians of the Islamic Revolution  and stepped in upto 50 KMs and then by the order of Mullah Omer they got back. I know you will take it just a brag but then I also know why will you take it as a brag, that' due to your strict government where you are only allowed to hear and see what they want you to hear and see and nothing else.
 
As far as the Pohantun Balkh (Balkh University) is concerned I would just like to tell you that with blessing of Allah those Iranian plots were foiled.
 
The students (or so called students, as the Intellegence services described them as common people under the disguise of students) tried to implant the banner but the Afghan government should its full authority and took of the board and reinstalled the previouse one which is still there, and the normal students (I mean not the agents) started there class back as scheduled.
 
 
 
 
 
For your reference you can visit the website of Afghan Higher Education site and check out the name of the Pohantun and other information regarding it.
 
Oh and better luck next time. Wink


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Conservative Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Dec-2008 at 21:46
Originally posted by Al Jassas

Hello Conservative
 
Marco explained, I think, why India is interested in making Afghanistan unstable, because Pakistan will suffer the consequenses. Now how Iran benifits from unstability, that is a bit more complicated.
 
A stable unified Afghanistan will make Pakistani influence in the region much stronger. Baluchis who are not in love with the current regime in Iran and have been rebelling for a while might tke the chance and demand unity with Pakistan since most Baluchis are there.
 
But what is even more clear is the role that a unified Afghanistan can play in any future central Asian pipeline. Iran is losing its oil fast and it is suspected that Central Asian countries have much more oil than currently thought. Now oil has to be exported and the only way other than Iran is Afghanistan.
 
Destabilising Afghanistan is a corner stone in strategic Iranian thinking and I would do exactly the same if I were from them. Just imagine how many billions will come if that line chose the shorter Iranian path.
 
Now your opposite argument is Iran is hurting from this chaos. The drug epidemic is reaching alarming rates but waite a second, Iran itself is benifiting from the drug trade, at least the regime is. Iraq was floded by cheap and high quality processed opium since the invasion. The drug problem in the south of the country has reached epidemic rates as well. In Saudi Arabia and Kuwaite there is enough evidence that Iranian intelligence is involved in the trade. Now I am not a conspiracy theory advocate but intelligence services around the world have been known to use drugs and I doubt that Iran is an exception.
 
Al-Jassas
 
Al-Jassas i am again bemused by what you have to say on the topic. Where exactly are you from and where do you get your 'information' from? What you said about Baluchis is just far off the mark that im in disbelief i even read that. There is no rebellion in Sistan-Baluchestan. There are incidents of terrorism against the state, but no insurgency or rebellion. You are confused. The Baluchi rebellion is taking place over in Pakistan. What Iran faces in Sistan-Baluchestan is opposition from an obscure group of terrorists calling themselves Jundullah. But there is nothing close to a rebellion in Iranian Baluchestan unlike what has been underway in Pakistan. Jundullah is an outfit that first claimed to be fighting for the rights of the 'Sunni minority' in Iran, then later claimed to be fighting for 'Baluch rights'. They again flip-flopped on their agenda and tried (unsuccessfully) to re-brand themselves as the 'Peoples Resistance Movement of Iran'. Their leader claimed he is fighting for 'regime change' and for a federal Iran, not for independence. What they are in reality tho, are a band of criminals with an extremist Salafi ideology that tries to mimic Al-Qaeda terrorism (video-taping beheadings of people they have kidnapped and so on). They have no support in Iran which is why they were forced out of the country and are now based and operate out of Pakistan, definitely under the protection of some foreign agency (the regime has hinted at either the Americans, Pakistanis or Saudi Arabians).
 
Now the only actual Baluchi rebellion taking place anywhere is in Pakistan, and that is where Baluchis are fighting for independence. You can even hear for yourself Baluchi rebels disowning having anything to do with Junduallah which should tell you something about where the real fight is taking place and by whom - http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-2933362922795920800&ei=5klVSbrhAY-cjQLPubiRDA&q=dan+reports+america+over+there&emb=1
 
In relation to instability in Afghanistan, it might be in the interest of Indians to keep that country unstable long enough to undercut Pakistani influence there, but this is an agenda i doubt is shared by the Iranian government. Iran has no interest in foolish Indo-Pak squabbles and is not going to get involved in their disputes.
 
And there is no way that Iranian intelligence is complicit in the smuggling and distribution of drugs as a form of policy or money-making or whatever else. One of the few things the regime has been commended for by the UN is Iran's commitment to fighting against the international smuggling, production and distribution of drugs.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Conservative Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Dec-2008 at 22:11
Originally posted by Gharanai

And I am sure that most of the fellow forumers do know why Iranians really don't want to see Taleban back in power, because along side with Sadam on the west they really had a great fear of Taleban on east. Now most of you guys would be saying WHY?
 
Any sane and civilized person would oppose such a band of blood-thirsty terrorists like the Taliban. Talking about some skirmish which may or may not have happened between Iranian forces and Taliban doesnt mean anything to me. If you want to know how Iranians had to fight a war with volunteers to supplement a destroyed and crippled army while the enemy had a proper and well-trained and equipped standing army then look no further than the Iran-Iraq war.
 
Maybe you're a closet Taliban and are proud of these people, but that doesn't impress me or worry me at all. The Taliban threat to Iran is through their perverse ideology that supports violent terrorism. Militarily they arent and never were a threat to Iran
 
As far as the Pohantun Balkh (Balkh University) is concerned I would just like to tell you that with blessing of Allah those Iranian plots were foiled.
 
The students (or so called students, as the Intellegence services described them as common people under the disguise of students) tried to implant the banner but the Afghan government should its full authority and took of the board and reinstalled the previouse one which is still there, and the normal students (I mean not the agents) started there class back as scheduled.
 
Here's another picture of the local students ripping down the Pashto banner and replacing it with a Persian one:
 
 
You may call them "Iranian agents" but you and i both know that they are not from Iran. These are local Tajiks from Balkh who are defying the ban on their language; Persian. It is these kinds of people that i was talking about earlier that Iran should continue to support, especially in a situation where they face American ploys to bring them back under Taliban rule.


Edited by Conservative - 26-Dec-2008 at 22:15
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Gharanai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jan-2009 at 20:22
Originally posted by Cons

You may call them "Iranian agents" but you and i both know that they are not from Iran. These are local Tajiks from Balkh who are defying the ban on their language; Persian. It is these kinds of people that i was talking about earlier that Iran should continue to support, especially in a situation where they face American ploys to bring them back under Taliban rule.
 
Dear I would just say that Iran has already been involved in some nasty politics around the region and will soon end up in same situation because we have a saying in DARI (by that I don't mean Farsi) "ای کشته کی را کشته ای که کشته شدی" "Ay Kushta Ke ra Kushta he Ke Kushta Shudee" "Oh murdered, whom you murdered that you got murdered!"
 
 


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