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Forum LockedWhen was Vilnius built?

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    Posted: 21-Jan-2007 at 17:54
Once the duke Gediminas came from his Trakai capital for hunting in the valley of confluence of the Neris and Vilnia. As it was growing darker, he decided that it was too late to come back to Trakai and stayed there for night. In the midnight Gediminas saw a serene dream. While walking through a huge wood on the coast of the Neris he reached a high hill. A very big wolf appeared on the hill and howled in a very strong voice. The duke tried to shoot come arrows at the wolf but all the arrows bounced off his iron sides. The animal howled so strongly that it seemed that hundreds of wolves howled together.His voice echoed through the forests and fields. Having got frightened the duke asked to call the main prophet in order to explain his extraordinary dream. Having listened to the Duke's story, the prophet told the Duke to build a powerful castle on this hill and it should be inseparable like this iron wolf. A large town would develop by this castle. The strong howl of the wolf means a wide popularity and fame in the whole world. The next day the Duke started to found a new town. At first they built a castle which was named the Upper castle.
 
The name of Vilnius was mentioned in the written chronicles for the first time in Gediminas' letter to the towns of Western Europe in 1323. But when was it really built?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Lenon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jan-2007 at 05:35
The question is what does it mean "built" ?Wink
People had been lived here 2000 years ago. In V century there already were quite large  settlement. In XI first wood fotress and pagan temple were bult. In 1251 , when Lithuanian king Mindaugas was baptized , he built a stone catholic teple at the place of pagan temple. At Gediminas times Vilnius city became a capital and it was beginning of its significance and size growing.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jan-2007 at 11:04
The beginning of a city is usually considered either when the place got it's city rights or when it was first mentioned in a chronicle. The latter one is more common.

And a wide fame in the whole world? Never knew that Wilno was known to so many...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aelfgifu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jan-2007 at 11:12
I'd say the beginning of a city is the moment that constant habitation in any form of settlement can first be proven, through archaeology. There are plenty of cities and owns that have never oficially been given city rights (the Hague, to give an example known to me, has never gotten city rights because it did not grow into significance until after the middle ages, yet this does not mean it was not there before). Also, the first time it was mentioned in a chronicle might also be late in its actual existence. The reason it is mentioned in a chronicle in itself proves that it was already established by that time and therefore must be older than this mentioning...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bielas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jan-2007 at 15:32
Originally posted by rider rider wrote:

The beginning of a city is usually considered either when the place got it's city rights or when it was first mentioned in a chronicle. The latter one is more common.

And a wide fame in the whole world? Never knew that Wilno was known to so many...
It's written a mith about how Vilnius was built
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Lenon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jan-2007 at 15:50
In case of Vilnius, it could be possible that it was not  mentioned in chronicles  because Lithuanians had no own writings  for a long time and this territory were not good known in Europe before XIII-XIV centuries. But from the other side it was not mentioned in  Russian (close neighbours of Lithuanians) chronicles too. Of course , such chronicles could be lost. In any case,  there are archelogical discoveries that shown that people were lived there before Gediminas, the temple bulit  Mindaugas was real, but did this settlement had the same name ?  Maybe some guys from Lithuania know better ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jan-2007 at 12:38
Well, Russian chronicles should mention it... Tallinn is on an Arabic map... and Tartu mentioned in the Chronicle of Novgorod. These are considered the earliest dates (1054 and 1030, respectively) even though earlier habitation has been found.
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