History Community ~ All Empires Homepage


This is the Archive on WORLD Historia, the old original forum.

 You cannot post here - you can only read.

 

Here is the link to the new forum:

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Calendar   Register Register  Login Login


Forum LockedWhat's in a name?

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Omar al Hashim View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 05-Jan-2006
Location: Snowy-Highlands
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5725
Post Options Post Options   Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: What's in a name?
    Posted: 07-Mar-2008 at 04:34
In Europe, when a woman gets married she changes her surname to her husbands surname.
In the middle east, when a woman gets married she keeps her own name.
In the subcontinent, she changes her name to her husbands.

Why?

Is changing your name a Indo-European thing? Do Irani's and Turks do it?
What is the purpose of changing your name?
When did this start happening?

What about other cultures? Do you change or not change?

Do you have a preference towards your wife/yourself changing your name? Why?


I can moderately understand why Arabs do not change their name; because of the importance of family history, but what about everyone else?
"O Byzantines! If success is your desire and if you seek right guidance and want your empire to remain then give the pledge to this Prophet"
~ Heraclius, Roman Emperor
Back to Top
Akolouthos View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 24-Feb-2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2096
Post Options Post Options   Quote Akolouthos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Mar-2008 at 05:04
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim

In Europe, when a woman gets married she changes her surname to her husbands surname.
In the middle east, when a woman gets married she keeps her own name.
In the subcontinent, she changes her name to her husbands.

Why?

Is changing your name a Indo-European thing? Do Irani's and Turks do it?
What is the purpose of changing your name?
When did this start happening?

What about other cultures? Do you change or not change?

Do you have a preference towards your wife/yourself changing your name? Why?


I can moderately understand why Arabs do not change their name; because of the importance of family history, but what about everyone else?
 
Hm. I believe the Romans did it, so the process goes at least that far back... Don't know, beyond though. Interesting question. Clap
 
-Akolouthos
Back to Top
Constantine XI View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar
Lord of Hut River Province Principality

Joined: 01-May-2005
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5714
Post Options Post Options   Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Mar-2008 at 05:31
To correct you there Omar, in the Hispanic world it works differently I believe.

For a child, your name is then: (first name) + (second name) + (father's surname) + (mother's surname). Your overall surname is your father's, but when saying your full name this is the order it follows.

For the wife, she drops her mother's maiden surname and replaces it with her husband's paternal surname, with the word de between that name and her father's surname.
It is not the challenges a people face which define who they are, but rather the way in which they respond to those challenges.

Back to Top
Styrbiorn View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph


Joined: 04-Aug-2004
Location: Sweden
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2818
Post Options Post Options   Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Mar-2008 at 08:09
Taking the name of the husband is a relatively new idea in Scandinavia - it wasn't until the idea with family names were forced upon people a few centuries ago. The Icelanders still practice the old naming system, where the wife keeps her own name.
Back to Top
Sparten View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar
Totalitarian Iconoclast

Joined: 18-Mar-2006
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5009
Post Options Post Options   Quote Sparten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Mar-2008 at 10:24
Omer even in S Asia until the arrival of the British name changing was not the norm.
The Germans also take vacations in Paris; especially during the periods they call "blitzkrieg".
Back to Top
Aelfgifu View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar

Joined: 25-Jun-2006
Location: Netherlands
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3391
Post Options Post Options   Quote Aelfgifu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Mar-2008 at 17:07
In the Netherlands women add their husbands surname between their first name and their own surname. Some women use only their husbands name in dayly life, bus some always use both names.
 
The idea of taking the husbands name is rooted, I think, in the fact that often in the past, a woman would marry into her husbands family. She would legally become part of that family, and would legally be seperated from her own. She was thier responsibility, for her good behaviour or her bad, her maintenance both during the marriage as when she was widowed.

Women hold their councils of war in kitchens: the knives are there, and the cups of coffee, and the towels to dry the tears.
Back to Top
erkut View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar
Persona non Grata

Joined: 18-Feb-2006
Location: Cyprus
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 923
Post Options Post Options   Quote erkut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Mar-2008 at 18:45
In Turkey womans use their husbands name.
DÜŞÜNÜYORUM O HALDE VURUN !
Back to Top
Ikki View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
Guanarteme

Joined: 31-Dec-2004
Location: Spain
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1358
Post Options Post Options   Quote Ikki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Mar-2008 at 19:30
Originally posted by Constantine XI

To correct you there Omar, in the Hispanic world it works differently I believe.

For a child, your name is then: (first name) + (second name) + (father's surname) + (mother's surname). Your overall surname is your father's, but when saying your full name this is the order it follows.

For the wife, she drops her mother's maiden surname and replaces it with her husband's paternal surname, with the word de between that name and her father's surname.
 
 
Umm i don't know if that is the ancient practice or in other hispanic countries, but in Spain:
 
First name + (optional, other names) + Father's surname + Mother's surname
 
Always, when child and after the woman is married. In fact, since recent years you can choose the order of the surnames like you want, putting first your mather and then your father althought the tradition is like i said before.
Back to Top
Constantine XI View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar
Lord of Hut River Province Principality

Joined: 01-May-2005
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5714
Post Options Post Options   Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Mar-2008 at 01:53
Ikki, I think it was indeed a more ancient practice.
It is not the challenges a people face which define who they are, but rather the way in which they respond to those challenges.

Back to Top
Omar al Hashim View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 05-Jan-2006
Location: Snowy-Highlands
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5725
Post Options Post Options   Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Mar-2008 at 01:53
Originally posted by Sparten

Omer even in S Asia until the arrival of the British name changing was not the norm.

I suspected as much but I didn't know for sure.

So it appears as if each society has taken the naming method fairly randomly. Which just makes the underlying reason more obscure.
Originally posted by Erkut

In Turkey womans use their husbands name.

What about in Ottoman days though? Was it still done then?
"O Byzantines! If success is your desire and if you seek right guidance and want your empire to remain then give the pledge to this Prophet"
~ Heraclius, Roman Emperor
Back to Top
es_bih View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar
Beglerbeg

Joined: 20-Dec-2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3426
Post Options Post Options   Quote es_bih Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Mar-2008 at 03:20
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim

Originally posted by Sparten

Omer even in S Asia until the arrival of the British name changing was not the norm.

I suspected as much but I didn't know for sure.

So it appears as if each society has taken the naming method fairly randomly. Which just makes the underlying reason more obscure.
Originally posted by Erkut

In Turkey womans use their husbands name.

What about in Ottoman days though? Was it still done then?


As far as I know it was done under Ottoman times, too.

Back to Top
pinguin View Drop Down
Editorial Staff
Editorial Staff
Avatar

Joined: 29-Sep-2006
Location: Chile
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7508
Post Options Post Options   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Mar-2008 at 03:33
Originally posted by Ikki

Originally posted by Constantine XI

To correct you there Omar, in the Hispanic world it works differently I believe.

For a child, your name is then: (first name) + (second name) + (father's surname) + (mother's surname). Your overall surname is your father's, but when saying your full name this is the order it follows.

For the wife, she drops her mother's maiden surname and replaces it with her husband's paternal surname, with the word de between that name and her father's surname.
 
 
Umm i don't know if that is the ancient practice or in other hispanic countries, but in Spain:
 
First name + (optional, other names) + Father's surname + Mother's surname
 
Always, when child and after the woman is married. In fact, since recent years you can choose the order of the surnames like you want, putting first your mather and then your father althought the tradition is like i said before.
 
That's confussing.
 
Actually, the common practise in Hispanic countries is for people to have:
 
First name + (optional, other names) + Father's surname + Mother's surname
 
Women keep theirs names all theirs lives, independently if they are married of not.
 
Only as a formality, in wedding invitations for example, the particle "of (husband Father's name)" is ADDED to the full name of married women.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
"He who attempts to count the stars, not even knowing how to count the knots of the 'quipus'(counting string), ought to be held in derision."

Inca Pachacutec (1438-1471)
Back to Top
AdamantFire View Drop Down
Janissary
Janissary
Avatar

Joined: 17-Jul-2008
Location: USA
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 0
Post Options Post Options   Quote AdamantFire Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jul-2008 at 16:29
Hey!  First post!

Originally posted by Ikki

 
Umm i don't know if that is the ancient practice or in other hispanic countries, but in Spain:
 
First name + (optional, other names) + Father's surname + Mother's surname
 
Always, when child and after the woman is married. In fact, since recent years you can choose the order of the surnames like you want, putting first your mather and then your father althought the tradition is like i said before.


Agreed, that's how it works most of the time.  I think it has more to do with religion than anything else.  Most cultures that allow such a tradition are, from what I've noticed (no official analysis here - just observation) Spanish/Central/South American hispanic, and are overwhelmingly Catholic.  Catholicism puts a heavy emphasis on the Madre de Dios.  I really don't think that's a coincidence, but I have no proof.  Only conjecture. Cool
Sic hoc adfixum in obice legere potes, et liberaliter educatus et nimis propinquus ades.

Te audire no possum. Musa sapientum fixa est in aure.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.047 seconds.