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Forum LockedWhat would happen if the U.S never entered WWI

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Slickmeister Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: What would happen if the U.S never entered WWI
    Posted: 11-Nov-2004 at 20:02
What would be the war's results if America never entered the war.

Edited by Slickmeister
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JanusRook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Nov-2004 at 22:36
Same as today, Italy probably would've gotten a better peace deal.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Nov-2004 at 00:01

It's got to be remembered that Germany wasn't defeated by anything that happened on the ground in WWI. In fact in 1918 it was at it's strongest on the western front since 1914. In 1914 Germany had outnumbered the allies, however an increasing number of British troops and the defeat of Austria by Russia meant that they fell behind in numbers gradually from 1915 onwards. By 1917 Britain and France outnumbered the Germans by 5/4. In 1918 even with the few Americans that saw combat, with the pulling out of the war by Russia the advantage swung to Germany who developed a huge 3/2 advantage on the western front.

Germany was defeated by food shortages caused by a 4 year blockade of the country and disasterous harvest in 1917 that left people in Germany starving as they directed what little food towards the army. This caused resentment of the war by the populous. In Russia people had just overthrown the Tsar and now agitators were calling for a similar overthrow of the Kaiser, using the famine and widespread dislike of the war to create strikes and civil unrest. THe German government was forced to call a halt to the war before the country collapsed into anarchy.

In 1918 the Americans arrived and but due to poor training (many US troops arrived in England untrained, were given a weeks basic training and then shipped to France) and equipment shortages, very small numbers ever saw combat. Those that did were lead by a moron, Pershing who refused to listen to British and French advice about the effectiveness of German machine guns and use trenches. Instead he used an ACW drillbook and marched then in lines across field. The US actually has the highest casualty rate per troop that saw combat of all armies of the war. In reality the American would have become an effective fighting force by 1919 having solved their equipment problems and inexperience, but never got the chance. 



Edited by Paul
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Nov-2004 at 00:04
Germany still would have lost due to blokade as mentioned, they however, probably would  not have lost int eh same way.  As in the Kasier and government would stay on and they might just have to give back Alsace-Lorraine or soemthing.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Slickmeister Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Nov-2004 at 07:16
My bet is that at the end, Germany would become a
superpower therefore Adolf Hitler would not rise to
power and start WWII. France, would have broken,
Iraq would have to fight for their independence from
the Ottoman Empire, Czar Nicholas II would have
still fallen and the USSR would rise.

Because no WWII, the Chinese, Koreans, and others
would not have U.S assistance fighting back the
Japanese. Delaying where it is to be now if at all.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Nov-2004 at 11:38
Originally posted by Paul

It's got to be remembered that Germany wasn't defeated by anything that happened on the ground in WWI. In fact in 1918 it was at it's strongest on the western front since 1914. In 1914 Germany had outnumbered the allies, however an increasing number of British troops and the defeat of Austria by Russia meant that they fell behind in numbers gradually from 1915 onwards. By 1917 Britain and France outnumbered the Germans by 5/4. In 1918 even with the few Americans that saw combat, with the pulling out of the war by Russia the advantage swung to Germany who developed a huge 3/2 advantage on the western front.

Germany was defeated by food shortages caused by a 4 year blockade of the country and disasterous harvest in 1917 that left people in Germany starving as they directed what little food towards the army. This caused resentment of the war by the populous. In Russia people had just overthrown the Tsar and now agitators were calling for a similar overthrow of the Kaiser, using the famine and widespread dislike of the war to create strikes and civil unrest. THe German government was forced to call a halt to the war before the country collapsed into anarchy.

In 1918 the Americans arrived and but due to poor training (many US troops arrived in England untrained, were given a weeks basic training and then shipped to France) and equipment shortages, very small numbers ever saw combat. Those that did were lead by a moron, Pershing who refused to listen to British and French advice about the effectiveness of German machine guns and use trenches. Instead he used an ACW drillbook and marched then in lines across field. The US actually has the highest casualty rate per troop that saw combat of all armies of the war. In reality the American would have become an effective fighting force by 1919 having solved their equipment problems and inexperience, but never got the chance. 

very good, couldn't have said it better!

 

sot he answer to the original question is: the entry of the US was in fact insignificant for Europe but in fact it was important for the US herself, the US from then on violated her own monroe doctrine and interfered with Eurasian politics and interests ever since, a habit still practiced to this day...

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Kalevipoeg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Nov-2004 at 14:22
So if America would not have sent his minimal and untrained forces, he would not have had that major effect on foreign politics in the later years and today??? Because of this one move, the US got a piece of Versaille treaty and rose from there into the future superpower??? News indeed, i had always thought that the Americans had a major role to play in the war. Good to know actually.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Genghis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Nov-2004 at 14:26
American financial and industrial help was very important, and one of the reasons the Germans asked for an armistice was because of the fact that they knew about 3 million US troops would arrive in France in 1919, and that their experience in 1918 would make them a fighting force on par with the other European powers.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Kubrat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Nov-2004 at 15:05
3 million?  That seems a bit much...

And where are the supply lines going to run from?  Britain and France already have their troops to support.  The supply lines from America to the German front would have to be huge!  Which would have been impossible in 1919 without more advanced airplanes.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Genghis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Nov-2004 at 19:09

America had a great amount of ships and would probably spend much of late 1918 and early 1919 building up stockpiles in France.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2004 at 00:37
Us involvement inn balltes was insignificant, but the knowedge of a vast fresh pool of millions of men about to be added to the aliies was incredibly significant, it showed that after the failure of the Lunderdorf offensive Germany had no hoes because the allies could draw upon a whol enew source of power, heras the central powers could not. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2004 at 16:42

Originally posted by Kubrat

3 million?  That seems a bit much...

And where are the supply lines going to run from?  Britain and France already have their troops to support.  The supply lines from America to the German front would have to be huge!  Which would have been impossible in 1919 without more advanced airplanes.

US had mobilised 4 1/2 million men by the end of the war and nearly 1/2 million were on the western front. They had not only the US merchant fleet, but the British and French merchant fleets too at there disposal to ship men.

The problem is, this would still only have evened up numbers with the Germans.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Imperatore Dario I Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Nov-2004 at 05:52

Originally posted by JanusRook

Same as today, Italy probably would've gotten a better peace deal.

Which would have probably helped prevent World War II!


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Post Options Post Options   Quote TheOrcRemix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jan-2005 at 23:23
True peace is not the absence of tension, but the presence of justice.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Tiamatty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-May-2005 at 08:58
Germany still would've lost. America made Germany give up more quickly, but the Allied forces were already winning the war, and America didn't really take part in any important battles. Frankly, the Americans ended up being little more than cannon fodder. But the Germans were broken regardless.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jalisco Lancer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-May-2005 at 13:52


Germany was interested to keep the US busy and tried to create a war between Mexico and the US

( Columbus, Santa Isabel affair, US Punitive Expedition in Mexico 1917, San Diego Plan, Zimmerman Telegram ).

By having to the US involved in Europe, gave us a break to end the revolution and implement the oil expropiation.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Laelius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jun-2005 at 20:13

Those that did were lead by a moron, Pershing

 

Pershing's organization of American troops was brilliant to say the least.  The famed British military theorist/historian had this to say of Pershing,

 

"It is sufficient to say that there was probably no other man who would or could have built the structure of the American Army on the scale he planned. And without that army the war could hardly have been saved and could not have been won."

 

This is a man who managed to create an integrated fighting force of 2 million men in under 18 months!

 

who refused to listen to British and French advice about the effectiveness of German machine guns and use trenches. Instead he used an ACW drillbook and marched then in lines across field.

 

While much of your post may be worthwhile this is pure nonsence.  Pershing might have utilized a drillbook formed from experiences in the ACW but he most certainly did not march his troops across the field in lines.  The question was whether or not an agressive mobile strategy could be pursued.  Though his tactics may have resulted in higher casualties they were vindicated by the successful drive on the St. Mihiel salient and an impressive breakthrough in the Muesse-Argonne forrest which cut the German lines of communication.   Pershing was arguably the finest Allied officer of the First World War.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote poirot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jun-2005 at 22:16

My wild guess: France or Germany agrees to a conditional surrender, and the Treaty of Versailles would not have existed.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Quetzalcoatl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jun-2005 at 01:46
Originally posted by poirot

My wild guess: France or Germany agrees to a conditional surrender, and the Treaty of Versailles would not have existed.

Bloody nonsense, there is no way France would have surrendered by 1918. Conditional surrender was nonsense,  in fact the treaty of versaille was the worst piece of sh!t ever. why the fvck would you let the enemy surrender before you even invade his country. An abomination to french and british deaths. fvcking america. I hope one day we have our revenge, WW1 was supposed to be our last war.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jun-2005 at 22:44

I must say, despite Pauls great and generally correct posts, Pershing was not quite that bad.

But I must also say it would have been better for the entire world if the Allies had followed all the major generals advice to keep pushing until they got a REAL peace treaty.  Germany's infrastructure was broken, they had very few reserves left, and the allies had America to draw troops from.  Had the allies kept the war up for a few months to another year Germany may have suffered a complete and total coollapse, then the country could have been properly dealt with and made to realize their full defeat, sparing us possibly from a second world war in Europe.  I beleive when you fight an enemy, you must destroy them utterly to truly win, the allies id not do that in WWI, and it came back to get them.

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