History Community ~ All Empires Homepage


This is the Archive on WORLD Historia, the old original forum.

 You cannot post here - you can only read.

 

Here is the link to the new forum:

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Calendar   Register Register  Login Login


Forum LockedWhat is Traditional Thinking?

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
coberst View Drop Down
Housecarl
Housecarl


Joined: 26-Mar-2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 40
Post Options Post Options   Quote coberst Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: What is Traditional Thinking?
    Posted: 11-Apr-2009 at 22:06

What is Traditional Thinking?

 

If we added to traditional thinking the abstract idea of change our world becomes tremendously complex.  The way we manage the complexity is that we create; we create by introducing generalizations plus other abstractions.

 

Philosopher, tycoon, philanthropist, author, and international political activist George Soros says in his book “The Age of Fallibility” that “Once it comes to generalizations, the more general they are, the more they simplify matters.  This world is best conceived as a general equation in which the present is represented by one set of constants. Change the constants and the same equation will apply to all past and future situations…I shall call this the critical mode of thinking.”

 

Soros identifies the traditional mode of thinking with an ‘organic society’.  He further identifies the critical mode of thinking with the ‘open society’.   Each society must find a means to deal with factors that do not conform to the will of the members of that society.  In a traditional society, even though it focuses primarily on phenomena that are generally static, nature can be obdurate.

 

In the traditional mode of thinking the central tenet is that things are as they have always been and the future will be likewise—thus they cannot be any other way.  The status quo is fate and all we need do is learn that fate and to organize our lives in accordance.  In such a world logic and argumentation has no place because there exists no alternatives.

 

When we examine the nature of epistemology--what can we know and how can we know it--in such a mode of thinking we quickly illuminate the advantages and drawbacks.  In such a society there is no bifurcation between thought and concrete reality.  There exists only the objective relationship between knower and known.  The validity of traditional truth is unquestioned; there can be no distinction between ideas and reality.

 

Where a thing exists we give it a name.  Without a name a thing does not exist.  Only where abstraction exists do we give non-objects a name.  In our modern reality we label many non-concrete things and thus arises the separation of reality and thoughts.  The way things appear is the way things are; the traditional mode of thinking can penetrate no deeper.

 

The traditional mode of thinking does not explain the world by cause and effect but everything performs in accordance with its nature.  Because there is no distinction between the natural and supernatural and between reality and thought there arise no contradictions.  The spirit of the tree is as real as the branch of the tree; past, present, and future melt into one time.  Thinking fails to distinguish between thought and reality, truth and falsehood, social and naturals laws.  Such is the world of traditional thought and the world of mythological thought.

 

The traditional mode is very flexible as long as no alternatives are voiced, any new thing quickly becomes the traditional and as long as such a situation meets the needs of the people such a situation will continue to prevail.

 

To comprehend the traditional mode we must hold in abeyance our ingrained habits of thought, especially our abstract concept of the individual.  In a changeless society all is the Whole, the individual does not exist.

 

The individual is an abstraction that does not exist whereas the Whole, which is in reality an abstraction, exists as a concrete concept for traditional thought.  The unity expressed by the Whole is the unity much like an organism. The individuals in this society are like the organs of a creature; they cannot last if separated from the Whole.  Society determines which function the individual plays in the society.

 

The term “organic society” is used often to label this form of culture.  When all is peaceful with no significant voices placing forth an alternative then this organic society exists in peace.  In this organic society a human slave is no different from any other chattel.  In a feudal society the land is more important than the landlord who derives his privileges from the fact that he holds the land.

 

For 3000 years Egypt was an example such a society.  This Egyptian society remained essentially unchanged until 50BC when Western society was led into a different mode of thinking by the Greeks and by Roman conquest.

 

Are you satisfied with the traditional mode of thinking?

 

Back to Top
Parnell View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 04-Apr-2007
Location: Ireland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1367
Post Options Post Options   Quote Parnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Apr-2009 at 23:23
Where did you paste this from out of interest?
"Neither apathy nor antipathy can ever bring out the truth of history" Eoin Mac Neill.
Back to Top
Akolouthos View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 24-Feb-2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2096
Post Options Post Options   Quote Akolouthos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Apr-2009 at 04:15
Coberst,
 
You are in violation of our copy/paste policy. You are required to post the link as well as your thoughts, comments, or analysis if you wish to paste articles or block comments from other sites. Please review the AE Code of Conduct, and provide a bit of commentary within the next two days or this thread will be locked. Thank you.
 
-Akolouthos
Back to Top
coberst View Drop Down
Housecarl
Housecarl


Joined: 26-Mar-2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 40
Post Options Post Options   Quote coberst Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Apr-2009 at 11:21
Originally posted by Akolouthos

Coberst,
 
You are in violation of our copy/paste policy. You are required to post the link as well as your thoughts, comments, or analysis if you wish to paste articles or block comments from other sites. Please review the AE Code of Conduct, and provide a bit of commentary within the next two days or this thread will be locked. Thank you.
 
-Akolouthos
 
This post is my creation. It is not the creation of some other person.  Why do you think that it was created by someone else?
Back to Top
gcle2003 View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 06-Dec-2004
Location: Luxembourg
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7011
Post Options Post Options   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Apr-2009 at 17:42
It may well be your creation but the same post also appears under your pseudonym at thenakedscientists.com, uncommmonforum.com, ephilosopher.com, ilovephilosophy.com (Search Google wirth the phrase "In the traditional mode of thinking the central tenet is that things are as ")
 
So some copying and pasting would certainly seem to be going on.
 
Citizen of Ankh-Morpork
Never believe anything until it has been officially denied - Sir Humphrey Appleby, 1984.
Back to Top
coberst View Drop Down
Housecarl
Housecarl


Joined: 26-Mar-2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 40
Post Options Post Options   Quote coberst Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Apr-2009 at 18:22
Originally posted by gcle2003

It may well be your creation but the same post also appears under your pseudonym at thenakedscientists.com, uncommmonforum.com, ephilosopher.com, ilovephilosophy.com (Search Google wirth the phrase "In the traditional mode of thinking the central tenet is that things are as ")
 
So some copying and pasting would certainly seem to be going on.
 
 
I have been posting on various Internet forums for 5 years.  Everyone of those are my posts if I am not mistaken.
Back to Top
Akolouthos View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 24-Feb-2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2096
Post Options Post Options   Quote Akolouthos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Apr-2009 at 03:43
Originally posted by coberst

Originally posted by gcle2003

It may well be your creation but the same post also appears under your pseudonym at thenakedscientists.com, uncommmonforum.com, ephilosopher.com, ilovephilosophy.com (Search Google wirth the phrase "In the traditional mode of thinking the central tenet is that things are as ")
 
So some copying and pasting would certainly seem to be going on.
 
 
I have been posting on various Internet forums for 5 years.  Everyone of those are my posts if I am not mistaken.
 
Well, that's an interesting situation. I would suggest, as a point of style, that you post the link from which you copied and pasted it (to aid anyone who might want to cross-reference it), as well as an explanation of what motivated you to write it along with some commentary on what you have written, what you were trying to get across, etc. Look at it this way; say I write a book and post an excerpt on AE. I would naturally want to post some commentary explaining the thought process that led to the chapter in question.
 
-Akolouthos


Edited by Akolouthos - 13-Apr-2009 at 03:50
Back to Top
coberst View Drop Down
Housecarl
Housecarl


Joined: 26-Mar-2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 40
Post Options Post Options   Quote coberst Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Apr-2009 at 11:42
Originally posted by Akolouthos

Originally posted by coberst

Originally posted by gcle2003

It may well be your creation but the same post also appears under your pseudonym at thenakedscientists.com, uncommmonforum.com, ephilosopher.com, ilovephilosophy.com (Search Google wirth the phrase "In the traditional mode of thinking the central tenet is that things are as ")
 
So some copying and pasting would certainly seem to be going on.
 
 
I have been posting on various Internet forums for 5 years.  Everyone of those are my posts if I am not mistaken.
 
Well, that's an interesting situation. I would suggest, as a point of style, that you post the link from which you copied and pasted it (to aid anyone who might want to cross-reference it), as well as an explanation of what motivated you to write it along with some commentary on what you have written, what you were trying to get across, etc. Look at it this way; say I write a book and post an excerpt on AE. I would naturally want to post some commentary explaining the thought process that led to the chapter in question.
 
-Akolouthos
 

 

Books have thousands of paragraphs in which to explain.  An OP on the Internet forum has a few paragraphs.  Our culture is one raised on sound bits and bumper stickers.  Many responders get no further than the title. 

 

Our society must become more sophisticated or our species will become toast.  The only avenue for the long life of the species is for our adults to become self-actualizing self-learners.  My posts are designed to allow me to act as a role model for those few who might have a desire to become more intellectually sophisticated.  Socrates is my role model.

Socrates was dispatched with a cup of hemlock.  I am often dispatched with a vacuous charge of spammer. 



Edited by coberst - 13-Apr-2009 at 11:45
Back to Top
Parnell View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 04-Apr-2007
Location: Ireland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1367
Post Options Post Options   Quote Parnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Apr-2009 at 14:41

My posts are designed to allow me to act as a role model for those few who might have a desire to become more intellectually sophisticated.


It must be difficult putting up with us cretins.

You are 'often' dispatched with that charge? Maybe you should learn that you are indeed no Socrates, just an internet geek with an irritating hobby horse.




Edited by Parnell - 13-Apr-2009 at 14:43
"Neither apathy nor antipathy can ever bring out the truth of history" Eoin Mac Neill.
Back to Top
es_bih View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar
Beglerbeg

Joined: 20-Dec-2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3426
Post Options Post Options   Quote es_bih Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Apr-2009 at 04:06
Originally posted by Parnell


My posts are designed to allow me to act as a role model for those few who might have a desire to become more intellectually sophisticated.


It must be difficult putting up with us cretins.

You are 'often' dispatched with that charge?




LOL


Funny Parnell, funny indeed. Just don't insult the fellow personally, critique of this thread is enough - and within parameters of CoC discussion. Wink




Back to Top
coberst View Drop Down
Housecarl
Housecarl


Joined: 26-Mar-2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 40
Post Options Post Options   Quote coberst Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Apr-2009 at 10:44
Originally posted by Parnell


My posts are designed to allow me to act as a role model for those few who might have a desire to become more intellectually sophisticated.


It must be difficult putting up with us cretins.

You are 'often' dispatched with that charge? Maybe you should learn that you are indeed no Socrates, just an internet geek with an irritating hobby horse.


 
It is a dirty job but someone must do it.  Tossing pearls before swine.
Back to Top
Parnell View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 04-Apr-2007
Location: Ireland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1367
Post Options Post Options   Quote Parnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Apr-2009 at 11:02

All hail, the new Aristotle!

"Neither apathy nor antipathy can ever bring out the truth of history" Eoin Mac Neill.
Back to Top
Dolphin View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar
Níl a fhios agam cad ata ag tharlu

Joined: 06-Feb-2007
Location: Ireland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1554
Post Options Post Options   Quote Dolphin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Apr-2009 at 15:17
Your post reads like the introduction to a dissertation with a personality lobotomy. If you could just tell me your agenda straight up, i'll give it a least a second's consideration. Other than that, I advise you to change the writing style to something a little less formal and you might get your point/agenda across better in the future.


Am not I Dametas? Why, am not I Dametas?
Back to Top
coberst View Drop Down
Housecarl
Housecarl


Joined: 26-Mar-2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 40
Post Options Post Options   Quote coberst Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Apr-2009 at 17:59
Originally posted by Dolphin

Your post reads like the introduction to a dissertation with a personality lobotomy. If you could just tell me your agenda straight up, i'll give it a least a second's consideration. Other than that, I advise you to change the writing style to something a little less formal and you might get your point/agenda across better in the future.


 

I am a retired engineer with a good bit of formal education and twenty five years of self-learning.  I began the self-learning experience while in my mid-forties.  I had no goal in mind; I was just following my intellectual curiosity in whatever direction it led me.  This hobby, self-learning, has become very important to me.  I have bounced around from one hobby to another but have always been enticed back by the excitement I have discovered in this learning process.  Carl Sagan is quoted as having written; “Understanding is a kind of ecstasy.”

 

I label myself as a September Scholar because I began the process at mid-life and because my quest is disinterested knowledge.

 

Disinterested knowledge is an intrinsic value.  Disinterested knowledge is not a means but an end.  It is knowledge I seek because I desire to know it.  I mean the term ‘disinterested knowledge’ as similar to ‘pure research’, as compared to ‘applied research’.  Pure research seeks to know truth unconnected to any specific application. 

 

I think of the self-learner of disinterested knowledge as driven by curiosity and imagination to understand.  The September Scholar seeks to ‘see’ and then to ‘grasp’ through intellection directed at understanding the self as well as the world.  The knowledge and understanding that is sought by the September Scholar are determined only by personal motivations.  It is noteworthy that disinterested knowledge is knowledge I am driven to acquire because it is of dominating interest to me.  Because I have such an interest in this disinterested knowledge my adrenaline level rises in anticipation of my voyage of discovery.

 

We often use the metaphors of ‘seeing’ for knowing and ‘grasping’ for understanding.  I think these metaphors significantly illuminate the difference between these two forms of intellection.  We see much but grasp little.  It takes great force to impel us to go beyond seeing to the point of grasping.   The force driving us is the strong personal involvement we have to the question that guides our quest.  I think it is this inclusion of self-fulfillment, as associated with the question, that makes self-learning so important.

 

The self-learner of disinterested knowledge is engaged in a single-minded search for understanding.  The goal, grasping the ‘truth’, is generally of insignificant consequence in comparison to the single-minded search.  Others must judge the value of the ‘truth’ discovered by the autodidactic.  I suggest that truth, should it be of any universal value, will evolve in a biological fashion when a significant number of pursuers of disinterested knowledge engage in dialogue.

 

In the United States our culture compels us to have a purpose.  Our culture defines that purpose to be ‘maximize production and consumption’.  As a result all good children feel compelled to become a successful producer and consumer.  All good children both consciously and unconsciously organize their life for this journey.

 

At mid-life many citizens begin to analyze their life and often discover a need to reconstitute their purpose. Some of the advantageous of this self-learning experience is that it is virtually free, undeterred by age, not a zero sum game, surprising, exciting and makes each discovery a new eureka moment.  The self-learning experience I am suggesting is similar to any other hobby one might undertake; interest will ebb and flow.  In my case this was a hobby that I continually came back to after other hobbies lost appeal.

 

I suggest for your consideration that if we “Get a life—Get an intellectual life” we very well might gain substantially in self-worth and, perhaps, community-worth.

 

As a popular saying goes ‘there is a season for all things’.  We might consider that spring and summer are times for gathering knowledge, maximizing production and consumption, and increasing net-worth; while fall and winter are seasons for gathering understanding, creating wisdom and increasing self-worth.

 

I have been trying to encourage adults, who in general consider education as a matter only for young people, to give this idea of self-learning a try.  It seems to be human nature to do a turtle (close the mind) when encountering a new and unorthodox idea.  Generally we seem to need for an idea to face us many times before we can consider it seriously.  A common method for brushing aside this idea is to think ‘I’ve been there and done that’, i.e. ‘I have read and been a self-learner all my life’. 

 

I am not suggesting a stroll in the park on a Sunday afternoon.  I am suggesting a ‘Lewis and Clark Expedition’.  I am suggesting the intellectual equivalent of crossing the Mississippi and heading West across unexplored intellectual territory with the intellectual equivalent of the Pacific Ocean as a destination.

Back to Top
Akolouthos View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 24-Feb-2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2096
Post Options Post Options   Quote Akolouthos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Apr-2009 at 20:14
Coberst,
 
People on this forum would be more willing to engage you if you responded to them as individuals; heck, you might even start a productive conversation. As long as you keep responding to people by simply posting your pre-written posts from other forums -- posts that you had planned on posting in the first place, you will forgive the majority of us if we don't take you all that seriously; after all, so long as you continue on this course, you really don't have anything to teach us that we couldn't get from sitting down with a six-pack and surfing wikipedia and online blogs.
 
-Akolouthos
Back to Top
Parnell View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 04-Apr-2007
Location: Ireland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1367
Post Options Post Options   Quote Parnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Apr-2009 at 20:37
Originally posted by Akolouthos

Coberst,
 
People on this forum would be more willing to engage you if you responded to them as individuals; heck, you might even start a productive conversation. As long as you keep responding to people by simply posting your pre-written posts from other forums -- posts that you had planned on posting in the first place, you will forgive the majority of us if we don't take you all that seriously; after all, so long as you continue on this course, you really don't have anything to teach us that we couldn't get from sitting down with a six-pack and surfing wikipedia and online blogs.
 
-Akolouthos


Well said!
"Neither apathy nor antipathy can ever bring out the truth of history" Eoin Mac Neill.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.078 seconds.