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Forum LockedWhat happened to the Huns?

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Akskl View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Akskl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Nov-2005 at 18:21
E.Bretschneider "Mediaeval Researches. From Eastern Asiatic Sources." v.1,  2001 edition, originally published in 1887

pp.306-307
...The Yuan ch'ao pi shi notices that two rivers which Subutai had been ordered to cross, viz., the "Djayakh" and the "Idil".
   The first of these rivers, the original Turkish name of which is "Iaik" or "Djaik"  (in Kazak language - "Jayiq" - A.), is  the Ural river of modern Russian maps. We find it first mentioned in the Byzantine writers. Zemarchus, sent in 569 by the Byzantine emperor to the khan of the Turks, on his way back came to the "Daich" river, and then to the "Attila" (Volga). Constantin Porphyrogenita (tenth century) calls the "Iaik" (Yule's "Cathay," clxvi.). As I have stated above, the ancient Russian annals write this name "Yaik". Pl.Carpini styles the same river (743) "Jaec"; Rubruck (274), "Jagac". In Haithon's itinerary the name reads "Jaic". On the Catalan map (1375 A.D.) it is called "Jayech". In the Mohammedan historians of the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries the river "Iaik" is frequently mentioned. Rashid notices it in his account  of the Kipchak. This is also "the great river Yak, which has its spring in the land of Siberia, near the river Cama, and runs through the lands of "Nagay", fallen into the Mar Caspium" oin jenkinson's narrative of the journey to Bokhara in 1558.
   The other river is Volga. By the name of "Idil" or "Atil", meaning "river" in Turkish, the Turks, and after them all Mohammedan geohraphers , have designated the Volga, which latter name, used by the Slavic nations, seems to be derived from the ancient city of Bolghar, situated on the Volga. In the tenth century Istakhri states (p.2) that the Khazars live on the river "Atel", which runs through their country. Ibn Khurdadbeh (also in the tenth century) speaks also of a city "Atel".  This is believed to answer to the present Astrakhan. In the Byzantine writers the name appears much earlier; the river "Attilia" in Zemarchus itinerary (v.supra). Plano Carpini, 775: "Ethil quam Rusci vocant Volga". Ibidem, 743: "Flumen Volga super quod vadit Bati est valde magnum." Rubruck calls the Volga always "Ethilia". On the Catalan map the name is "Edil"...   


Kazakh name for Volga river is Edil.
 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nagyfejedelem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Nov-2005 at 05:55

I agree with you. In my oppinion Attila also meant river in Turkish. For example:

The name of the Khazar capital was Itil and the name of the Hungarian homeland before the conquest of nowadays Hungary was Etelköz.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sebike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Dec-2005 at 20:56

Originally posted by Temujin Temujin wrote:

Avars and Bulgars mostly, Magyars not, they came much later,

i've read a theory suggesting it was only appr 100 years betwen the death of attila and the magyar conquest of todays hungary (honfoglalás)

so if this was true, the connection between the hunns and the hungarians might have been closer than we thought..

here is a link, unfortunately only in hungarian

http://www.kitalaltkozepkor.hu/tothgyula_amagyarkronikak.php

it's pretty interesting. did you ever hear of that theory?

and about the Árpád name,, I also thought this was exclusive for hungary, and I never saw a reply to raiders question.. is this name really common in turkey??



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Dec-2005 at 02:45
Originally posted by sebike sebike wrote:

Originally posted by Temujin Temujin wrote:

Avars and Bulgars mostly, Magyars not, they came much later,

i've read a theory suggesting it was only appr 100 years betwen the death of attila and the magyar conquest of todays hungary (honfoglalás)

so if this was true, the connection between the hunns and the hungarians might have been closer than we thought..

here is a link, unfortunately only in hungarian

http://www.kitalaltkozepkor.hu/tothgyula_amagyarkronikak.php

it's pretty interesting. did you ever hear of that theory?

and about the Árpád name,, I also thought this was exclusive for hungary, and I never saw a reply to raiders question.. is this name really common in turkey??

I do not think that we can accept seriously Herbert Illig's theory.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DayI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Dec-2005 at 10:56
Originally posted by Raider Raider wrote:

 

and about the Árpád name,, I also thought this was exclusive for hungary, and I never saw a reply to raiders question.. is this name really common in turkey??

Dunno but one of my far nephew is called Arpad.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sebike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Dec-2005 at 13:47

Originally posted by Raider Raider wrote:

i don't think we can accept seriously Herbert Illig's theory.

not knowing much about either him or his theory (the source is all i've read about this theory) i have to ask; why not?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Dec-2005 at 03:32
Originally posted by sebike sebike wrote:

Originally posted by Raider Raider wrote:

i don't think we can accept seriously Herbert Illig's theory.

not knowing much about either him or his theory (the source is all i've read about this theory) i have to ask; why not?

Well his books were rather popular and widely known. It was printed two or three times. The publisher even organized public discourse in this issue. Even the Rubicon (a periodical edited by historians and university professors) has a special account to confute the theory.

By the way this theory always makes me laugh. Those nationalist who propagate it try to use it to back their nationalist ideology. And they seem to forget that this theory also "solve" the problems of the daco-roman continuity.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard XIII Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Dec-2005 at 10:36
The "daco-roman continuity" is like "who killed jfk?".
"I want to know God's thoughts...
...the rest are details."

Albert Einstein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Akskl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Dec-2005 at 17:50
Rene Grousset "The Empire of the Steppes - a History of Central Asia" transl. from the French by Naomi Walford.  Rutgers University Press, 6th paperback printing, 1999

p.80,   9th line from the bottom:

"...Lastly, as was just seen, Huns of Europe, who were no doubt of Turkic stock, held sway over Russian steppe (it was occupied by  Russia only in the end of the 18th century - A.) in the region adjoining sea of Azov and the mouth of the Don, although the rivalry of their two hordes - Kutrigurs in the west, Uturgurs in the east - undermined their power.
   Among the vassals of the Juan-Juan, say the Chinese, were the Tu-chueh, a Turkic tribe which has given its name to a whole group of nations sharing a common language. Pelliot says that the Chinese name "Tu-chueh" must represent a Mongol (Juan-Juan) plural form "Turkut", from singular "Turk". Literally, it means "strong". According to Chinese annalists, the Tu-chueh totem was the wolf. They were descendants of the old Hsiung-nu, a fact borne out by the proto-Turkic character attributed to the Huns by Pelliot..."


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Dec-2005 at 07:36

Originally posted by Richard XIII Richard XIII wrote:

The "daco-roman continuity" is like "who killed jfk?".

I have recently seen a book about Romanian history by a French author. She says it is practically impossible to decide whether the daco-roman or the immigration theory is truth. According to her it all depends the interpretation of the known facts.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard XIII Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Dec-2005 at 06:37
A clear, fast and sharp solution for this "problem". 
"I want to know God's thoughts...
...the rest are details."

Albert Einstein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alone_Wolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jan-2006 at 08:04

As first,we must know there werent only one Hunnic government.There were two.Asian Huns and European Huns.Asian Huns,come from Ashina.Ashina means "wolf woman".Chinese say these:

"We killed all the Turks without a ten-year child.A wolf took these child and married with him.10 children was born from the child and the wolf.These 10 children went to the Turkish villages and created a new Turkish government as "Ashina".Because one of the child's name was Ashina.There was a wolf on these government's flag."

Huns are coming from Ashinas.So they are Turk,not chinese or any other nation.They created Asian Hun government.Its the first Turkic goverment as we know.
Europian Huns(Attila's) fighted vs Rome.They made "Margus" anda "Anatolyus" agrements with Rome.
What happened to Europian Huns?
They came to the Balkans.While they were coming,they created HUNgaria,In Balkans,they created "Bulgaria".Than they have been Slav.

Those mountains are ours
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Turkoglu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jan-2006 at 13:11
In 2005, a group of about 2,500 Hungarians petitioned the government to be a recognized minority of direct decendants of Attila. It was a failed bid but gained the group publicity.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Akskl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Feb-2006 at 22:52
Did they have any proofs?
If archeologists could find Attila's tomb, then, using DNA analysis, it would be possible to find out - who is a direct descendant of him.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tanel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Feb-2006 at 10:52
I have always wondered why estonian word "Att" or "Ätt" means " a very old man" or " an old clan" 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Turkoglu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Feb-2006 at 13:08
the name is not Attila, actually its converted in that shape after years
there are four different teories.

1- Etil, Itil ( Attila born somewhere near Idil river )
2- Attay means Famous Emperor in old Turkish
3- Ata-la means my ancestor , my father in old Turkish
4- Es-til-e=As-til-a=At-til-a


by the way i  can give you the other emperors 's names meanings.


Balamir= Bala+Mir = Child Khan
Uldız= Star
Karaton= Kara+don (black cloth) or Ka+ra+tun (Strong race)
Muncuk= Bead or Flag
Oktar= Ok+tar (Arrow carrier)
Ruga=Rugulas i donno ?
Bleda= Bil-e-da=Bil-e-de=Bil-de=Bil-ge (Clever, well-informed, Learned )
İlek(as known as Çaba or Csaba)= Herdsmen
Dengizik= Sea, Ocean, Sea Storm
İrnek=?



Edited by Turkoglu

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote erci Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Feb-2006 at 14:15
Originally posted by Tanel Tanel wrote:

I have always wondered why estonian word "Att" or "Ätt" means " a very old man" or " an old clan" 


At means horse in Turkish, the word ata means ancester tho.what do you call ancester in estonian?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Seljuk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Feb-2006 at 16:35
Originally posted by timuroglu timuroglu wrote:

Hi, I am sure some of the huns enteed middle east.The erea I belong to is called khunj in Azerbaijani Turkish, Khun is the Azeri pronounciation of Huns.Azeri khunj is changed to persian khonj.Khoni is a family name in Iran

Huns raided Armenia but im not sure if they settled or not

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tanel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Feb-2006 at 04:42
I was littlebit uncorrect , the word Ätt also means Grandfather
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bosniathebestcountry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Feb-2006 at 07:59
ive also heards that the avars were responsible for the movement of serbs and croats towards the south and  have also merged with the slavs. the magyars then came afterwards and settled where the avars were now in the present day hungary seperating us from the russians, the poles, the checzks, plus the germanzition of austria where there used to be a slavic country. And the westerners were so scared of the huns that whoever came from the east they thought it was them. But magyars and huns i think are two completely different tribes. the english call it hungary while we bosnians serbs croats call them Madjarska. How do you hungarians call your country?
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