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    Posted: 26-Dec-2007 at 17:21
I have a question does any one know where valley of Tuwa is located in Saudi Arabia?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vibo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jan-2008 at 00:04
I looked at Ptolemy's Geography which dates to the year 150 AD. He doesn't mention it.
 
Do you have a time frame for this name?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote anum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jan-2008 at 17:30
well in the quran it mentions that valley of tuwa is located near Mt.Sinai. and it is a sacred valley. I was wondering is it still a sacred valley? and does anyone know the location?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hassan-i Sabbah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jun-2008 at 13:01

From little snooping around it all points to Damascus as the location. and is it still sacred? I suppose how religious you are, I would say it is historical site for sure.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jun-2008 at 16:36
Originally posted by Hassan-i Sabbah Hassan-i Sabbah wrote:

<FONT face="Tms Rmn">

From little snooping around it all points to Damascus as the location. and is it still sacred? I suppose how religious you are, I would say it is historical site for sure.




can you please post where it tells that Vally of Tuwa in Damascus?

from my search Tuwa mentioned in the Holy Quran twice

Verse 79:16 (Behold, thy Lord did call to him in the sacred valley of Tuwa)

Verse 20:12 (Verily I am thy Lord! therefore (in My presence) put off thy shoes: thou art in the sacred valley Tuwa.)


its a vally between Madina and Egypt . also many scholars mentioned that the Word Tuwa means Twice, as the vally which was scared/holy twice but it looks like the name of the vally is more accurate that the other meaning.

and its the place where God talked to Prophet Mosa. where he saw a fire and where his wood stick became like a snake.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hassan-i Sabbah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jun-2008 at 11:41
The article which i was refering to canbe found at this location.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jun-2008 at 12:37

your source say

Quote "'Tuwa' may be the name of a sacred valley just below Mount Sinai, which was located in Sham (Damascus) between Madyan and Egypt,"

there is an obvious  contradiction here
 
i dont understand how mout sinai was located in Damascus?!!!!!!  and why they say it WAS?!!
 
and  Damascus is not between Madyan and Egypt, Madyan is located north West of the Arabian peninsula  close to al Aqaba in Jordan i think and of course Egypt is more to the west of it.
 
i think who wrote that tafseer (explanation) mixed up between Sham as in Damascus and Sham as in  Jordan, Palestine, Lebanon and Syria.
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Qamar Ariff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Nov-2008 at 16:01
Assalamualaikum,

The sacred valley of Tuwa as mentioned in the Quran is located at Jabal Al Lawz in Madyan, North West of the Saudi peninsular. Google up the real mount sinai or look it up in youtube and there are many articles on it. It is a potential religious and political time bomb as this area is sacred to the muslims, jews and christian and is also close to the site of a Saudi air force base. They also apparently found the site where Nabi Musa crossed the Red Sea from Nuweibah to Madyan where there is said to be an underwater land bridge beneath the gulf of Aqabah. Apparently they had sent ROVs to dive along the underwater land bridge and found coral formation in the shape of chariot wheels . At the valley itself they found a manmade alter with drawings of Egyptian Apis Bull. There is a documentary movie coming up in early next year but of course, since its been done by the yahud, will place blame on Muslims for trying to conceal this site. The movie is called the Exodus Conspiracy - www.exodusconspiracy.com

Salam,

Qamar Ariff
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Urdu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Dec-2008 at 20:12
^ thanks for the info bro, I will be moving to saudi arabia next year for work and inshallah i will visit all these historical places. History, specially religious history is my passion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Qamar Ariff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Dec-2008 at 15:03
another important clue to the location is the prophets isra or night journey. The angel gabriel had asked the prophet to pray at 5 locations. These location must have been sacred. One mecca, two madinah, three tur sinar, four bait laham aka bethelehem and fifth baitul maqdis. The valley of tuwa where moses first met god was at mount tur sinar and if you follow the order, it must have been between bethlehem and madinah. I would love th have the chance to go there
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Dec-2008 at 06:29
that jabal al lowz theory is not scientific and there has not been any real research regarding it, and i think saudi arabia closed the site so it wont have christian pilgrimage wondering around in saudi desert, a safety matter.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Qamar Ariff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Feb-2009 at 00:58
Assalamualaikum,

For more information on the potential site, look it up under google earth. There are some markers that point certain historical site in the valley below Jabal Al Lawz aka Mount Tur Sinar. See the actual photos of these sites and the fenced up area surrounding the "golden calf" alter. There is a reason why god has revealed the location of the site now. According to hadith of our prophet SAW, this is also the site of the final battle where Nabi Isa seeks refuge from Ya'juj Ma'juj, hence it is sacred and important to us. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Feb-2009 at 11:32
well still its a theory, and as far as i know there has not been a research done by professional  archeologists,  you might find similar clues in Sinai peninsula too. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Qamar Ariff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Mar-2009 at 08:01
Salam
 
Maybe the following articles and photos may satisfy your scientific curiosity.
 
 

Above - Vanity Fair Magazine published a large article on the discovery of this mountain in the February 1998, issue, and featured many photos. Unfortunately the article centers around two gentlemen who came along after Ron Wyatt, but are claiming to have found the mountain.  Mr. Wyatt told David Fasold about the discovery who then told the two men who went out in 1988, to see the mountain.

 

Ron was on CBS News in 1984, telling about his trip to see the mountain and what he found there.  He had entered the country without a visa and was thought to be a spy.  He nearly died in prison there.  Here the magazine quotes Ron Wyatt:

Bible Texts Locate the Real Mount Sinai

  • "Moses fled from the face of Pharaoh and dwelt in the land of Midian; and he sat down by a well"  Ex. 2:15 NKJV.   Maps indicate Midian is near the border of the Gulf of Aqaba in Northwest Saudi Arabia, in the area shown on the map above.

  • "And she [Zipporah] bore him a son, and he called his name Gershom; for he said, "I have been a stranger in a foreign land"  Ex. 2:22.  Moses was in a different country, away from any Egyptians in Saudi Arabia.  He could not have been in the Sinai Peninsula, as that area was Egyptian controlled territory, full of Egyptian mines and communication towers.  Moses would have been easily captured in that area.

  • "Now Moses kept the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian.  And he led the flock to the back of the desert, and came to Horeb, the mountain of God"  Ex. 3:1.  Jethro lived in the vicinity of Mount Sinai.  Jethro was the leader of the Midianites who were found in this area, "East of the Gulf of Aqaba in the northwestern regions of the Arabian Desert" Britanica.  When researching the location of Mt. Sinai in Saudi Arabia that Mr. Wyatt proposed, I went to the East Tennessee State University Library and found two extremely detailed maps of Saudi Arabia.  On BOTH maps I found the name "Jethro" next to the town of Al Bad, which is near Jebel el Lawz, the correct Mt. Sinai!  See maps below.  Jethro was Moses' father-in-law as we saw in the texts above.  He was from the town of Al Bad, according to the local people who live there today, which is only about 15 miles from Jebel el Lawz.  The local people there today told Ron Wyatt that Jethro was from that area.   

    albadmap3.jpg (149509 bytes) Second map

     

  • "So He [God] said, 'I will certainly be with you.  And this shall be a sign to you that I have sent you:  When you have brought the people out of Egypt, you shall serve God on this mountain'" Exodus 3:12.  Moses was to bring the children of Israel from Egypt to this same mountain in Midian, near Jethro's home, in a foreign land.

  • "For this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia"  Galatians 4:25.  Here we are clearly told where the mountain should be located, in Arabia.  But where is Arabia?  "...It is bordered on the W by the Gulf of Aqaba and the Red Sea" Britanica.  This clearly rules out the Sinai Peninsula, but it does include Saudi Arabia of course.

  • "Then, at this saying, Moses fled and became a sojourner in the land of Midian, where he had two sons.  And when forty years had passed, an Angel of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire in a bush, in the wilderness of Mount Sinai."  Acts 7:29,30.  All historically accurate maps, such as some produced by secular companies like National Geographic (see map at top of page), show Midian in Saudi Arabia.  Unfortunately, maps placed in Bibles by the publishers may have Midian in the Sinai Peninsula in order to fit tradition, but not the Bible or the historical record.

Josephus Said It Was the Highest Mountain

Josephus said that Mt. Sinai "was the highest of mountains in the city of Madian" which is just outside the town of Al Bad.  Jebel el Lawz is the highest mountain in the upper two thirds of the country.  Also, Philo said Mt. Sinai was located east of the Sinai Peninsula and south of Palestine. 

Above - Aaron Sen stands in the encampment area of Mt. Sinai with the blackened peak in the distance. www.wyattarchaeology.com

 

Layout of Mountain & Artifacts

Mr. Wyatt is the original modern-day discoverer of the real Mount Sinai.  The upper 200 feet of Jebel el Lawz is burned black, as we have seen in previous photos above.  The Saudi Government will confiscate any photographs of the mountain and will not allow any tourists into the country, but U.S. Government satellite photos and a few private photos smuggled out of the country reveal the secret mountain by its unique blackened peak.  Unlike the traditional site, there are thousands of acres in which to encamp at the base of this mountain, while clearly being visible from the mountain top.

The Altar of the Golden Calf 


Above left - A dozen giant boulders are stacked in the encampment area and reveal 12 ancient Egyptian petroglyphs of bulls.  It is believed the golden calf was placed upon these rocks.  Large altars are found on the east and west sides of the mountain.    (two upper photos Viveka Ponten)  (two lower photos courtesy Aaron Sen

Above:  Using Google Earth you can see the fence around these large rocks, out in the encampment area.
Rocks:   28 34' 52.78" N   35 23' 46.06" E
Guard house & fence:  28 35' 12.50" N   35 23' 08.36" E

Government Acknowledges Archaeological Significance


Above - Aaron Sen stands next to government sign at base of Mt. Sinai acknowledging this archaeological area.  Photo Aaron Sen www.wyattarchaeology.com

After Mr Wyatt found this site in 1984, and visited it again a year later, the Saudi government erected a fence and a guard house preventing access to the Holy Precinct area at the foot of the mountain on the eastern side.  The sign above states, "Archaeological area...unlawful to trespass, subject to penalty."  When Ron and his two sons made their fist trip into Saudi Arabia, they were accused of being spies and were held prisoner for two months, awaiting execution.  After Ron helped to heal many sick prisoners, the authorities listened to his story and accompanied him to the column at the Saudi beach, then to Mt. Sinai. It was then they believed him, but they had to confiscate his photographs before letting him go.

 


Above - Aaron Sen stands at base of Mt. Sinai with a broken column at his feet.  www.wyattachaeology.com


Aaron Sen camps overnight in the same spot where Moses and the Children of Israel lived for a year at Mt. Sinai.  www.wyattarchaeology.com

 

The Rock which Flowed Forth Water

On the western or back side of the mountain is Rephidim where Moses and the Children of Israel first encamped before reaching Mt. Sinai.  It was here that Moses struck the rock, above, which gushed forth large quantities of water.  The giant 60 foot rock is on a 300 foot tall hill, and has obvious signs of water erosion, yet it is located in this desert region.  The fissure in the rock is so large that you can walk easily through it.  A square 20 foot altar is also at this site, which was built after the Children of Israel defeated the Amalakites.  The Amalakite territory covered "south of Judah and probably extended into northern Arabia" Britanica.

 


Above - Aaron Sen stands at base of the giant split rock which God provided for the Children of Israel.  www.wyattarchaeology.com


Above - Aaron Sen stands in the split of this giant rock.  Notice the obvious signs of erosion,
in this desert region.

Some Television Coverage

Hershel Shanks, editor of Biblical Archaeology Review was quoted in Newsweek that "Jebel el Lawz is the most likely site for Mount Sinai."  Dateline NBC has featured Jebel el Lawz in one of its reports.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Qamar Ariff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Mar-2009 at 08:03
And this taken from the exodus conspiracy website
 

Tuesday, December 23, 2008

The Lost Sea of the Exodus

Dr. Glen Fritz has done pioneering work in locating the sea that the Israelites crossed during their exodus from Egypt. Known as Yam Suph in the ancient Hebrew manuscripts, the name of this sea was changed to Red Sea in the Septuagint, which was the first translation of the Tanakh or Old Testament into another language - Greek. The name Red Sea was retained in all subsequent translations and the original meaning and location of Yam Suph faded from memory, becoming one of the greatest mysteries of the Bible. Over the past centuries, the academic community has gravitated toward associating suph with the Egyptian word twfy or tjuf, which means papyrus. This led them to postulate the meaning of Yam Suph as sea of reeds rather than Red Sea and since the Red Sea did not contain papyrus, scholars have proposed crossing points at various reed lakes and marshes near the border of Egypt.

As a geographer, Dr. Fritz has used a unique approach to pinpoint Yam Suph in a region far from the traditional sites. In his recent book, The Lost Sea of the Exodus, Dr. Fritz puts forward the idea of a crossing at Nuweiba Beach on the coast of the Gulf of Aqaba and crossing over to ancient Midian located in present day northwest Saudi Arabia. Dr. Fritz has granted us a phone interview where we discussed his important findings. The following post contains segments from that interview with Exodus team member, Steve Law.












Dr. Glen A. Fritz, Author of The Lost Sea of the Exodus
SL: What flaws did you see in some of the traditional theories about the crossing site that led you to seek new answers?

GF: Well, I couldn’t justify the standard “reed sea” theory of a shallow swamp/lake meeting the description in the Bible of the disaster of the Egyptian army and that sort of thing. So I saw in the theories that there was an attempt to explain the Exodus sea-crossing, in particular, with naturalistic conditions, while in the Bible I could see it was written up specifically as a miraculous event of gigantic proportions. And so the scholarly theories that were popular – the reed sea theories along Egypt, again, all were dependant on the wind blowing in the right direction and shallow water and quicksand and naturalistic explanations. So I knew that that was very suspect and I also saw that so much of the exodus seemed to have taken place far away from Egypt and that the original theories had a very Egypt-centric focus and they didn’t take in the big picture of the Exodus. They focused on all of the things they could connect to the pharaohs and hieroglyphs and Egyptology and they basically ignored the rest of the exodus.















The Exodus Region
SL: As a geographer, what was your approach to trying to solve the problem of finding where this sea is?

GF: My approach was to dispense with all of the traditions and all of the commentaries and just to shut myself in with all of the geographical references in the Bible to Yam Suph. I tried to interpret everything I could find geographically that pertained to that sea, either during the exodus, before the exodus or after the exodus. And when I looked at the data as a geographer, I could see that that sea was analogous solely to the Gulf of Aqaba – near Edom and the southern extent of the Promised Land. After that observation, I realized that the Red Sea tradition near Egypt and the reed sea theories near Egypt did not match up to what the Bible was saying.












Director, Tim Mahoney and Lennart Moller at the Gulf of Aqaba
SL: What do you see as the best biblical evidence that points to Yam Suph being the Gulf of Aqaba?

GF: For me, the best verse is Exodus 23:31 that repeats the same boundaries for the Promised Land that were given to Abraham. This was a verse given to Moses and it uses Yam Suph to delineate the southern extent of the Promised Land - drawing a line from Yam Suph, which is the Gulf of Aqaba, to the sea of the Philistines, which would be the Mediterranean Sea. So this verse is important because it connects Yam Suph to the Promised Land and it also does not permit you to put Yam Suph in other locations and still have a boundary that would make any sense. The other verses in Scripture tie Yam Suph to Edom, which are the mountains of southwestern Jordan and there’s no way that you can tie any of the landmarks near Egypt with Edom. Also we have the key verse in Kings where Solomon built a fleet of ships at Elot, at Yam Suph, for commerce. And that’s a late conformation 400 years after the Exodus that Aqaba was still considered to be the location of Yam Suph.















The Red Sea According to the Chart of Agnese Battista, ca.1544. This map is typical of Red Sea representations prior to the 19th century. (Library of Congress)
SL: Why hasn’t Yam Suph as the Gulf of Aqaba been considered as a dominant theory in the past?

GF: It was not considered because the Gulf of Aqaba was not charted until the mid 1800s. And if you look at the historical geography of the region, you find that the Gulf of Aqaba was either completely missing from maps or misplaced and misrepresented on maps as late as the mid 1800s. So all of the early scholars throughout history, particularly in the Byzantine period when the original Red Sea/Mount Sinai traditions were formed, had no idea that there was another sea that would be in the line of the travel of the Hebrews. Of course the Greek Septuagint which was done, the work was done, in Alexandria, Egypt was a Egypt-centric, Hellenized version of the Bible. The geography that they used when they ascribed Yam Suph to being the Red Sea was based on the crude Greek knowledge of the day and that knowledge essentially did not change for almost 2000 years. So scholars were deprived of the knowledge of knowing of the Gulf of Aqaba really until the last century or two. And that’s when we see other people speculating that Yam Suph may have been at the Gulf of Aqaba. We start to see that with Charles Beke in the mid 1800s and of course that was after the charting was known of the Gulf of Aqaba.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goocheslamb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Mar-2009 at 17:16
one thing i dont understand is why most people dismiss and are not interested in this location? clearly this location is so much better then the Mt.Sinai in egypt
 
 
also one thing, how was Aaron sen allowed over there? isn't he jewish?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Qamar Ariff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Mar-2009 at 03:25
Salam, to be honest, i would love to visit this site. If not for anything to verify the finding and make an islamic story rather than just taking the jewish or christion version. I am quite sad that we have to wait for a non muslim to point it out. If you go to the exodus conspiracy website you can obvious see the political connotation in that they blame the muslims for supressing and destroying evidence.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Mar-2009 at 06:30
Quote So all of the early scholars throughout history, particularly in the Byzantine period when the original Red Sea/Mount Sinai traditions were formed, had no idea that there was another sea that would be in the line of the travel of the Hebrews.
, yeah, like the Gulf of Aqaba lay undiscovered for thousands of years. Sneaky bastard, hiding from all the people traveling on it, around it, and living nearby.
Your going to have to find some better evidence Qamar.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Qamar Ariff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Mar-2009 at 13:26
i suppose, mt sinai on the sinai peninsular which was founded only 325ad based on the dream of queen helena, the mother of the emperor constantine is a better location?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Mar-2009 at 23:41
Probably not, but that doesn't help the case of Jabal al Lawz.
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