History Community ~ All Empires Homepage


This is the Archive on WORLD Historia, the old original forum.

 You cannot post here - you can only read.

 

Here is the link to the new forum:

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Forum LockedUyghur-Chinese relations

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 8>
Author
calvo View Drop Down
General
General


Joined: 20-May-2007
Location: Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 848
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calvo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Uyghur-Chinese relations
    Posted: 21-Apr-2008 at 10:41
Despite recent protests in Tibet stir up international sensation, the largest ethnic minority in China is actually the Uyghurs (how do you pronounce it?), a Turkic-Muslim people.
 
Consulting history sources, the Uyghur kingdom had developed close diplomatic and military relationships with the Chinese since the Tang Dynasty in the 7th century, as they replaced the Gokturks as the major steppe empire.
THe Chinese only managed to finally conquer them in the 18th cenutury under the Chin dynasty.
 
Today, the province of Sinkiang is still denominated as a "Uyghur Autonomous region", but apparently, the CHinese government has repopulated large areas with Han Chinese.
 
Does anyone know about how is the relation between Chinese and Uyghurs in Sinkiang?
Do Uyghurs share much solidarity with other Muslim peoples in CHina like the Hui and the Kazakhs?
After the independence of the Soviet Central Asian republics, are the Uyghurs also tempted to gain their independence?
Back to Top
Julius Augustus View Drop Down
Earl
Earl
Avatar

Joined: 20-Mar-2008
Location: Tajikistan
Status: Offline
Points: 274
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Julius Augustus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Apr-2008 at 10:59
they always have, I believe they tried making their own country a before as the east turkestan independence movement.  
Back to Top
Leonidas View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 01-Oct-2005
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 4617
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Apr-2008 at 00:51
Originally posted by calvo calvo wrote:

Despite recent protests in Tibet stir up international sensation, the largest ethnic minority in China is actually the Uyghurs (how do you pronounce it?), a Turkic-Muslim people.
the largest minoirty is the tai Zhuang group not the uighers.
 
 


Edited by Leonidas - 22-Apr-2008 at 00:52
Back to Top
Xu Hua View Drop Down
Knight
Knight
Avatar

Joined: 30-Mar-2008
Location: Beijing, China
Status: Offline
Points: 85
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Xu Hua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Apr-2008 at 03:10

Uygur is the 5th largest minority of China. Its population is nearly 8.4 million in 2000, is less than that of Zhuang, Manchus, Hui and Miao.

There are two origins of Uygur: Turk and Indo-European. In early years, there are many Indo-European city countries in Tarim Basin, as ancient Greece. They were raided by Huns, and Han Dynasty defeated Huns and ruled this region. In 7th centry, Turks established Uygur Khanate in Mongolian Plateau, and then conquered Tarim Basin but lost Mongolian Plateau to Kyrkiz. In 10th century, Kara Khanate was established in Tarim Basin. In 13th century, Mongolian Period began, and Tarim Basin started to be under the rule of Chagadai Khanate until 16th century, when Ilibali was established and the capital was Ili, or Yining in modern times. In 17th century, Tarim Basim was conquered by Junger Khanate, and finally Junger Khanate was annexed by Qing Dynasty, so Mongolian Period in Xinjiang was ended.
Back to Top
Xu Hua View Drop Down
Knight
Knight
Avatar

Joined: 30-Mar-2008
Location: Beijing, China
Status: Offline
Points: 85
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Xu Hua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Apr-2008 at 03:13
In 10th century, Kara Khanate was established in Tarim Basin.
___________
 
Sorry, I forgot that in 12th century, Kara Khanate was conquered by Kara Kitan, which was successor of Kitan Empire or Liao Dynasty which was defeated by Juchens.
Back to Top
calvo View Drop Down
General
General


Joined: 20-May-2007
Location: Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 848
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calvo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Apr-2008 at 08:37
How is the relationship between Uighurs and Han Chinese en Sinkiang today?
Have many Uighurs asimilated to Chinese ways, or do they still stick to their traditional ways?
How do they relate to the Hui people? Is there much solidarity?
 
I have the impression that one of the student leaders of Tienamen was Uighur.
Back to Top
kafkas View Drop Down
Samurai
Samurai
Avatar

Joined: 27-Feb-2008
Status: Offline
Points: 117
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kafkas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Apr-2008 at 17:35
Uighurs have always been relatively anti-Chinese compared to the other ethnic groups in the region.

The Hui are pretty much just Chinese minus the pork, so I'm not sure how they feel about them.

The Uighur community in Turkey was extremely pissed off about the Olympics being held in China.
Back to Top
Xu Hua View Drop Down
Knight
Knight
Avatar

Joined: 30-Mar-2008
Location: Beijing, China
Status: Offline
Points: 85
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Xu Hua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Apr-2008 at 13:45
Uighurs will not be assimilated to Chinese forever, because they are Caucasoid or semi-Caucasoid, who are completely different from Han. And their culture is very different from Han. China has not any plan to assimilate Uighurs. The Islamic culture remains wholly in Xinjiang.
The marriages between the 2 nations are very rare. If a Han is married to an Uighur, according to the ethnic policy, his/her will become a Uighur, and he/she will say good-bye to pork forever.
One of the student leader of the Tian'anmen Event, Wu'erkaixi, is an Uighur. But he had nothing to do with nationalism, but merely liberalism.
Back to Top
Xu Hua View Drop Down
Knight
Knight
Avatar

Joined: 30-Mar-2008
Location: Beijing, China
Status: Offline
Points: 85
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Xu Hua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Apr-2008 at 13:58
Hui is a nation with multi-origin: Arab, Turkic nations, Persia, Mongol, Han Chinese, even Malay. In history, many Chinese who converted to Islam became Hui. But from 1949, Han who converted to Islam were identified as Han Muslim, but not Hui, unless he/she was married to a Hui.
Back to Top
Sarmat View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 31-May-2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3115
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Apr-2008 at 16:16
It's interesting that Hui dialect was recognized as a separate language in the Soviet Union (it's perhaps the only case with a so-called Sinitic language). Hui are called Dungans in Central Asia. Dungan language has an alphabet based on Cyrillic script. It's still taught in some schools in Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan and newspapers in Dungan are also published.
Σαυρομάτης
Back to Top
Xu Hua View Drop Down
Knight
Knight
Avatar

Joined: 30-Mar-2008
Location: Beijing, China
Status: Offline
Points: 85
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Xu Hua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Apr-2008 at 01:12
Yes. In fact, Dungan is a dialect of Gansu in Qing Dynasty.
Back to Top
Xu Hua View Drop Down
Knight
Knight
Avatar

Joined: 30-Mar-2008
Location: Beijing, China
Status: Offline
Points: 85
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Xu Hua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Apr-2008 at 01:13
Dungan is a dialect of Mandarin in Gansu in Qing Dynasty.
Back to Top
Sarmat View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 31-May-2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3115
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Apr-2008 at 02:36
Yes. But in Central Asia "Dungan" became a desgination for Hui that live there.
Σαυρομάτης
Back to Top
Sarmat View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 31-May-2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3115
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Apr-2008 at 02:39
Σαυρομάτης
Back to Top
Xu Hua View Drop Down
Knight
Knight
Avatar

Joined: 30-Mar-2008
Location: Beijing, China
Status: Offline
Points: 85
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Xu Hua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Apr-2008 at 06:24
Ah, my meaning is that Dungan is Hui in Central Asia, but their language, DUNGAN, is one kind of dialect of Mandarin. As everybody known, Hui hasn't own language. They speak different dialects of Chinese. However, in many mosques in China, Arabic is taught, so many Hui can speak Arabic. In many Hui communities such as Niu Jiu street in Beijing, Arabic is used in some aspects, for example, automatic speech on bus.
Back to Top
Xu Hua View Drop Down
Knight
Knight
Avatar

Joined: 30-Mar-2008
Location: Beijing, China
Status: Offline
Points: 85
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Xu Hua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Apr-2008 at 06:25
Niu Jiu street in Beijing  -----------> Niu Jie street
Back to Top
Sarmat View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 31-May-2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3115
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Apr-2008 at 06:54
If you read my post attentively you would see that it was recognized as a separate language in the Soviet Union, not universally. But even the Chinese article from wiki said that the language of Hui in Central Asia is quite different from the rest of the Hui, mainly due to the Russian and other local influences.
Σαυρομάτης
Back to Top
calvo View Drop Down
General
General


Joined: 20-May-2007
Location: Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 848
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calvo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Apr-2008 at 08:28
What a complication....
 
So the Dungang are supposed to be Chinese Muslims (Hui) who migrated to Central Asia? Wouldn't that make their first language Han Chinese?
 
In ethnically mixed regions like Sinkiang, do the Hui identify themselves more with the Uighurs for their common religious practice, or more with the Chinese with their language and customs?
 
Having descended from diverse origins from the Middle East, Central Asia, and SE Asia, what are the origins, for example, of the Hui community in Xian and in Ningxia?
Do they have distant Turkic origins?
 
 
 
Back to Top
calvo View Drop Down
General
General


Joined: 20-May-2007
Location: Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 848
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calvo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Apr-2008 at 08:29
Originally posted by kafkas kafkas wrote:

Uighurs have always been relatively anti-Chinese compared to the other ethnic groups in the region.

The Hui are pretty much just Chinese minus the pork, so I'm not sure how they feel about them.

The Uighur community in Turkey was extremely pissed off about the Olympics being held in China.
 
Are there many Uighurs living in Turkey? When did they migrate there?
Back to Top
calvo View Drop Down
General
General


Joined: 20-May-2007
Location: Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 848
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calvo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Apr-2008 at 08:35
Originally posted by Xu Hua Xu Hua wrote:

Uighurs will not be assimilated to Chinese forever, because they are Caucasoid or semi-Caucasoid, who are completely different from Han. And their culture is very different from Han. China has not any plan to assimilate Uighurs. The Islamic culture remains wholly in Xinjiang.
The marriages between the 2 nations are very rare. If a Han is married to an Uighur, according to the ethnic policy, his/her will become a Uighur, and he/she will say good-bye to pork forever.
One of the student leader of the Tian'anmen Event, Wu'erkaixi, is an Uighur. But he had nothing to do with nationalism, but merely liberalism.
 
I hope that being Caucasoid doesn't become an inpedement of assimilation into Chinese ethnicity. I thought that  over thousands of years the Chinese have prided themselves on the basis that they have absorbed diverse foreign people of different languages and physical appereances. Supposedly, many Caucasoid peoples like the Yue-Chi, the Jie, and part of the Xienpei have dissolved into the Han population.
(or maybe I wrong, please correct me)
 
With regards to religion I can understand more about the barrier. The impression I get is that Han and Islamic customs are rather distinct, starting from the fact that the most consumed meat in Chinese cuisine is pork.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 8>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.092 seconds.