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Forum LockedTurkish Cymbals

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    Posted: 19-Mar-2007 at 02:47
Hi rockers and drummers, here's the history of the Turkish cymbals. Smile
 
 
Zildjian
 
 
The Avedis Zildjian Company is the world's largest manufacturer of cymbals. At nearly 400 years old, Zildjian remains one of the oldest operating companies in the world. They also sell drum-related accessories, such as drum sticks.
 

The first Zildjian cymbals were created in 1618 in Istanbul by an Armenian man named Avedis, who, while looking for a way to turn base metal into gold, created an alloy combining tin, copper, and silver into a sheet of metal that could make musical sounds without shattering. Avedis took the surname of Zildjian, from Turkish "zil+ci" (cymbal-maker/seller) and the Armenian suffix "yan" (son of), and began an industry in 1623 whose main product remained secretive for generations. It became family tradition that only the oldest son of the company's head would know the manufacturing process.

 
 
 
 
 
 
Istanbul Cymbals
 
 
 
 
 
 

The Istanbul brand name was adopted by a cymbal works established by two cymbalsmiths, Mehmet Tamdeger and Agop Tomurcuk. These cymbals were first exported to the USA in 1984, first under the name "Zildjiler", and soon afterwards as "Istanbul". Both craftsmen signed each cymbal. Some of these cymbals are now collectors' items. Following Agop's death in 1997, Mehmet assumed control of this factory, and the cymbals it makes are now sold as Istanbul Mehmet. The other cymbal works, since established by surviving members of Agop's family, produces Istanbul Agop.

Mehmet claims to have learnt his art from Mikhail Zilcan (sometimes spelled Zildjian), the grandson of Kerope Zilcan after whom the Zildjian K series is named. In the 1950s, he worked in the K. Zildjian factory in Istanbul.

 
 
 
Bosphorus Cymbals
 
 

Bosphorus is a cymbal manufacturer based in Istanbul, Turkey. They are known for high quality cymbals that are still manufactured in the traditional hand-made way. Their cymbals are characteristically thinner than most modern cymbals and have a dark tone similar to the 'Old K' Zildjian cymbals of the 1950s and 1960s made when the K. Zildjian branch of the Zildjian family was still based in Turkey.

The company takes its name from the Bosphorus Strait where the city of Istanbul, formerly Constantinople is located.

 
 
 
Sabian
 
The legend of the Turkish cymbals, from SABIAN. (A Canada based cymbals manufacturer) 
 
 

Sabian is a Canadian cymbal designer and manufacturer. It is the second largest in the world, only behind Zildjian. The company was founded in 1981 in Meductic, New Brunswick, Canada by Robert Zildjian, son of Avedis Zildjian III, the head of the Zildjian Company. Family tradition had it that the head of the company would only pass its secrets down to the oldest son, but Avedis III gave the information to both of his sons, Armand and Robert. This led to a family feud and a legal squabble, resulting in Robert leaving Zildjian to form the rival Sabian company. The companies continue to be harsh rivals, and are both among the world's most popular cymbal brands.

The settlement gave Robert the Canadian factory that at that time produced 40% of the production of the Avedis Zildjian Company, and most notably the entire K Zildjian line, all manufacturing in Turkey having ceased by this time. Robert agreed not to use the Zildjian name or to claim that his cymbals were the same. The most notable difference between Zildjian and Sabian is that Zildjian uses a softer, mellower sounding alloy while Sabian uses a more tin based alloy.

 

What is it about a SABIAN cymbal?

When leading artisans from the ancient city of Istanbul (formerly Constantinople) moved to the New World, they came to SABIAN, bringing their ancient skills with them. Today SABIAN is the only major company producing cymbals hand hammered in the ancient Turkish style. But we don't stop there. At SABIAN we take special care to ensure every cymbal in our seven different series and collection of Signature models is skillfully crafted to meet superior standards.

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


Edited by The Hidden Face - 19-Mar-2007 at 04:12
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kotumeyil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Mar-2007 at 08:59
As far as I remember you are a drummer, aren't you The Hidden Face?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Hidden Face Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Mar-2007 at 09:20
Yesss. Big%20smile
 
Actually It's just one of my hobbies. I don't think I am talented though.
 
How are you, by the way, Kotumeyil? I noticed you have been very inactive thesedays.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shinai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Mar-2007 at 17:49
400 years, woow , that's very cool.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Mar-2007 at 19:15
Between my dad and I we own 18-20 Avedis, several have been reworked at the factory,  I think it's a personal thing but, were I still playing, I wouldn't use anything but an Avedis. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kotumeyil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Mar-2007 at 04:05
Originally posted by The Hidden Face The Hidden Face wrote:

Yesss. Big%20smile
 
Actually It's just one of my hobbies. I don't think I am talented though.
 
How are you, by the way, Kotumeyil? I noticed you have been very inactive thesedays.
 
Thanks, I'm very busy nowadays; in the daytime I work and in the evenings I'm dealing with theater and music. I hope I'll be free again after a month and be much more active. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Mar-2007 at 04:50
Well well,you are a busy Ankaralı,aren't you?Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kotumeyil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Mar-2007 at 06:32
Yes, absolutelySmile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ArmenianSurvival Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Mar-2007 at 16:33
     Just a minor grievance... Zildjian is an Ottoman cymbal.

     But I didnt know Sabian was an offshoot of Zildjian which was created because of a family feud. Seems like one of the brothers didn't want to be subbordinate to the other... typical Armenian businessmen!

     Which cymbal do you prefer, Hidden Face?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bleda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Mar-2007 at 17:46
Originally posted by ArmenianSurvival ArmenianSurvival wrote:

     Just a minor grievance... Zildjian is an Ottoman cymbal.

     But I didnt know Sabian was an offshoot of Zildjian which was created because of a family feud. Seems like one of the brothers didn't want to be subbordinate to the other... typical Armenian businessmen!

     Which cymbal do you prefer, Hidden Face?

same as turks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Hidden Face Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Mar-2007 at 18:12
ArmenianSurvival, sure, the term "Ottoman" is much more suitable than "Turkish", however "Turkish cymbals" as a term:
 
There are two or three tonal families of cymbals: Turkish, Chinese, and some would say European, although others would include the European family of tones as a development of the Turkish sounds. The best Turkish (and European) cymbals have a rich, swelling tone that some describe as "sweet". To western ears, the best china types have an abrasive, cutting sound that is described by western drummers as "trashy".
 
 
 
 
 
Zildjian cymbals, Sabian cymbals, Istanbul cymbals and Bosphorus cymbals are all from the same school: Zildjians. And all of them have advanced and expensive series. 
 
In Turkey, most of the drummers use Istanbul cymbals. And others use Zildjian and Sabian. I've always used Istanbul cymbals, after all It's from the city I live in Big%20smile. But I know Zildjian and Sabian are popular in the USA.
 
Bosphorus cymbals (%100 handmade) are also special. I know that many jazz drummers in the New york city use Bosphorus cymbals.
 
for instance;
 


Edited by The Hidden Face - 21-Mar-2007 at 04:01
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ArmenianSurvival Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Mar-2007 at 15:35
     Hmm, it makes sense now, thanks for the explanation Hidden Face. One question though.... If Zildjian implements Turkish-style cymbals, how long were Turks using their own style of cymbals before Zildjian was established? (I would imagine it was after most of them gave up a nomadic lifestyle and settled down)


Originally posted by bleda bleda wrote:

same as turks


     Not according to every single discussion regarding Ottomans that I've ever participated in on this forum LOL

     I know in many instances 'Turk' and 'Ottoman' are interchangeable and parellel terms, but 'Ottoman' refers to a civilization which included plenty of non-Turks (as this thread shows), while 'Turk' refers to an ethnic identity (and probably a linguistic one too).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Mar-2007 at 17:47
I read that they used Cymbols before they were settled, as it was a percussion instrument used in their millitary bands which go as far back as the Xiongnu.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ArmenianSurvival Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Mar-2007 at 06:29
Originally posted by Bulldog Bulldog wrote:

I read that they used Cymbols before they were settled, as it was a percussion instrument used in their millitary bands which go as far back as the Xiongnu.


     Thats interesting... Xiongnu are the Huns right? I wonder why they simply didn't adopt the Chinese style (maybe since their technology wasn't on par with China, they used different methods to make them and thus it slowly became a distinct style?)

     Another question: The Huns were more of an alliance of tribes rather than a single people, right? Because I believe in Steppe culture they gave their loyalty to their families/clans before anything else... am I wrong?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Hidden Face Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Mar-2007 at 06:40
ArmenianSurvival;
 
 
Avedis I, an Armenian alchemist living in Constantinople, discovers a secret process for treating alloys and applies it to the art of making cymbals of extraordinary clarity and sustain (1). Although central asia minor has a long history of cymbals(2) making dating back to 1200.b.c. Avedis' cymbals are far more musical and powerful in their projection(3).
 
The sultan's famed Janissary bands are quick to adopt Avedis' cymbals for daily calls to prayer, religious feasts, royal weddings, and the Ottoman army. Sultan Osman II acknowledges Avedis to be the founder of the craft of Turkish cymbal making(4). In appreciation, the Sultan gives Avedis 80 gold pieces and the family name "Zildjian." which means "Cymbal smith" in Armenian, (Zil is Turkish for Cymbal, Dj means maker, and ian is the armenian suffix meaning "son of".
 
Notice the numbered facts.
 
For more information, see the links I provided.


Edited by The Hidden Face - 23-Mar-2007 at 07:26
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ArmenianSurvival Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Mar-2007 at 19:01
Originally posted by The Hidden Face The Hidden Face wrote:

The sultan's famed Janissary bands are quick to adopt Avedis' cymbals for daily calls to prayer


     I thought the Janissaries were non-Muslims? Or were they conscripted from non-Muslim populations and made to convert to Islam?

Originally posted by The Hidden Face The Hidden Face wrote:

Sultan Osman II acknowledges Avedis to be the founder of the craft of Turkish cymbal making(4)


     Wow, I didn't know he was that important in his own country.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Mar-2007 at 19:08
Janniseries were coming from non-Muslim populations,and then through training they were converted to Islam and learned Turkish.It was very hard for non-muslims to be servants of the House of Osman,whose representative was the Sultan.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Hidden Face Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Mar-2007 at 19:40

Guys, are you sure that you are making a point here.?

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Mar-2007 at 19:43
He asked a question,and i answered.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bleda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Mar-2007 at 20:08
Originally posted by Spartakus Spartakus wrote:

He asked a question,and i answered.

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