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Forum LockedTurkic Languages

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Emil_Diniyev View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Emil_Diniyev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Feb-2009 at 12:01
Originally posted by Bulldog Bulldog wrote:

Quote Beylerbeyi
Turkish, Ozbek and Kazakh are all in different branches of the Turkic languages (namely the southwestern, southeastern and northwestern branches), they are not 'dialects' or 'dialect continuums' (any more than all other languages are):


Turkic is a dialect continuum, I'll explain why. If we start from Turkey Turkish (including Turkish spoken in the Balkans and Cyprus) there is no dividing line between the Turkish spoken in Azerbaycan with the Turkish spoken in Turkey, it just gradually shifts in Anatolia to the extent that there are people in Turkey with accents similar to that spoken in Azerbaycan and Iran than standard Istabul accent. The Turkish spoken in Syria/Iraq, is similar to that spoken in the surrounding regions in Turkey and Azerbaycan/Iran. North of Turkey, the Crimean Tatars, Tatars and Turkic speakers in Caucusus gradually shifts to something inbetween Oghuz/Kipchak. Travelling East from Azerbaycan through Northern Iran there is a shift to Turkmen. Further East there is a shift around the Khwarezm region which is inbetween Oghuz and Karluk/Chaghtai, this is also similar in the Northern Afganistan regions. Then from Ozbekistan to Eastern Turkistan/Xinjiang there is a very small shift as its practically the same. North of Ozbekistan there is a shift around Karakalpak region to Qipchak dialect ie Kazakh. 

There are no clear boundries, cut off points or areas where one stops and the other begins, its a classic example of "dialect continuum". People living in the inbetween regions have adjusted their ear to both dialects but people living further apart have bigger differences except in cases where there has been more linguistic contacts. For example, Ozbek-Uygur is much more similar to Oghuz due to historic reasons like alot of literature being written in both and read by both sides. For example, Suleyman the Magnificent had books of Ali Sher Navoi in his library, Fuzulli was influenced by Navoi, later Turkistani poets were inspired by Fuzulli and so forth.

This is why the Turkish of Turkey is closer and has higher mutual intellebility with that spoken in Uygur regions than Kazakistan.

Quote Beylerbeyi
I speak both English and German they are very similar. Lack of gender in English does not matter as you can speak German without the gender and retain 99% of the intelligibility.
It does not matter whether you say 'der stein' or 'das stein' or 'die stein' the German speaker will understand the word 'stein' which means 'stone'.


I lived in Germany for half a year, I picked up no German and didn't understand even basic sentances maybe because I spent most my time getting by speaking Turkish LOL

Maybe it was just me but can English speakers with no language classes adjust to German just be living there?


Azerbaijan are north-east to Turkey not east.


Edited by Emil_Diniyev - 10-Feb-2009 at 12:10
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Emil_Diniyev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Feb-2009 at 12:06
Originally posted by Bulldog Bulldog wrote:

Its possible for say somebody from Turkmenistan to simply go to Turkey and without any formal training of language school adapt and used to the Turkish spoken there. People from Turkey and Azerbaycan, Eastern Turkistan/Xinjiang and Oz'bekistan to understand each other fluently without having to go anywhere. A person from Turkey will only have a basic grasp of understanding people in Oz'bekistan, however, if they went to work or live there its not difficult to adjust the ear and adapt without any major difficulty.

 


I met an Uygur from China and i couldn't understand him.

I don't think its possible for a average person from Turkey or Azerbaijan to understan and Uygur or Uzbek or Uzbek and Uygur to understand Turkish and Azeri.

Like said, Turkish and Azeri are close to each other while Uzbek and Uygur are close to each other like Turkish and Azeri is.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Feb-2009 at 12:43
Emil are you saying that you find Xorazamcha dialect very hard to understand? I've seen you on other forums expressing how amazed you were that its similar to that spoken in Azerbaycan Wink
      “What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.”
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Emil_Diniyev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Feb-2009 at 13:16
The Uzbek yes but not the Uyghur.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HungryWolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Mar-2009 at 14:26
There are more than 200 million people in the world who are turkic and speak turkic language


Turks can be killed but can't be beaten. (Napoleon Bonaparte)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MythTR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Mar-2009 at 15:31
Yes, they are changeing and changeing.
 
I suggest , no one should speak without being sure of  a topic if he/she is not a etymolog or historical proffessor.
 
(don'T understand it like this : you said no one should speak. ) No I said withour being sure of, (I added this note because europeans character about Turks)
We Turks are a people who throughout our history have been the very embodiment of freedom&independence
Mustafa Kemal ATATURK
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tigloon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Apr-2009 at 06:20
Originally posted by Jalair Jalair wrote:

No doubt silmilarities of grammer and original words exist, the question is why and how the differences occured?  Differences may not be limited to accent, vowels or loan words.
 
In Afghanistan Andkhoi Uzbek is more close to Tashkent accent compare to Maimana, Saripol and Takhar. In Badakhshan, Takhar, Kunduz and Samangan initial Y is replaced with J but not in Andkhoi, Saripol and Maimana.
I believe that the differences in the Turkic Languages were because of Oguz Turks coming to Anatolia and Ottomans loving arabic and persian more than Turkish, and the russian effects during ssbc on the central Asian Turkic countries.This is a simple explanation.
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'Peace at home, Peace in the world' Gazi M. Kemal ATATÃœRK
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Justurk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2009 at 15:21
Anatolian Turkish is mutually intelligible with Balkan Turkish dialects, Crimean Tatar( Oghuzified to some extent) , Iraqi Turkmen and Azerbaijani language. On the other hand, Anatolians and Azerbaijanis will have no dificulty to communicate with Turkmens from Turkmenistan if they can adapt to palatalization of s and z in Turkmenistan. So we can say that there exists a real mutual intelligibility among Oghuz Turkic dialects. These are dialect continuums which are standardized in a politically motivated manner.
If an Anatolian Turk claims that he cannot understand Azeri and Turkmen, we can suppose that either he is Istanbul-born and only educated with Istanbulite Standard Language, is not acquainted with Anatolian dialects, or he is not a native Turkish speaker ( perhaps, he is ethnic Albanian, Bosniak, Circassian, Laz Georgian or Kurd.) or he has an anti Turkic agenda and he is politically motivated.
 
On the other hand, those languages under Qarluq branch (namely Uzbek and Uyghur) are really somehow difficult to understand for Anatolian Turks. This cannot be said for Azerbaijani Turks because they are familiar with those words used by Qarluq speakers. Because both Azerbaijani literary and colloquial languages retain many common Turkic words. Qarluq languages have many archaic Turkic words, they lack meaning shifts that occured in Anatolian Turkic language. Their grammar maintained many archaic features that are almost completely lost in Anatolian Turkic language. However, this does not mean mutual intellgibility between Anatolian Turkish and Uzbek cannot be spoken about. There is a mutual intelligibily between the two. If an Anatolian Turk has knowledge of historical development of Anatolian Turkish Language and words used by locals in Anatolia, and if he listens to what is said very very carefully, he will not have a big difficulty in understanding Qarluq Languages, particularly Uzbek. The biggest difficulty of Anatolians is to adapt Tashkent dialect which lost its vowel harmony completely. For Anatolian Turks and also for Azerbaijani Turks, It is easier to understand Uzbek dialects which somehow maintained the vowel harmony to some extent.  
 
Additionally, we Anatolian Turks have to confess that we do not understand Qypchaq dialects quite well. Especially Qazaq, Qyrgyz and Bashqurt may be very difficult. Due to sound changes and grammatical peculiarities, it is hard to figure out the meaning even if it is normal to pick up many words here and there. As an exception Tatar Qypchaq language is somewhat easier due to historical mutual interaction between Anatolians and Tatars. Tatar language ( not Crieman Tatar but Kazan Tatar itself)  has been influenced by Ottoman language and Crimean Noghay Tatar ( Qypchaq)  dialects contirbuted much to the formation of Standard Language in Turkey.
 
In my opinion, either  Oghuz, Qarluq or Qypchaq, all Turkic languages have mutual intelligibilty  to a very high extent. It is a real surprise that there is a mutual intelligibility if you consider that the distance in which Turkic languages have been spread and historical, cultural and political separation that divided them and shaped their present day.
 
All in all, to create a common Turkic Language for the members of the three main group ( Oghuz, Qarluq and Qypchaq) and impose it on them are much easier than Fusha imposed on Arabs and re-united them at least linguistically.  
     
 


Edited by Justurk - 31-May-2009 at 15:28
Whether you call Turkish or Turkic, We are all Turks.
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