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Forum LockedTurkic Golden Wolf banner

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    Posted: 28-Dec-2006 at 16:41

Ancient Turkic "wolf head" standard found in Northern Kazakstan
(7-8 centuries)

Wolf is a totemic animal in Kazakstan, and the wolf banners or standards like this were carried into battle by warriors.









A membrane inside wolf's mouth made a piercing "howling" sound when the standard was held aloft while galloping.

This color photo is the banner's copy in Astana, Kazakstan. The original standard is in the Hermitage museum in St. Petersburg, Russia.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BAWIR$AQ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Dec-2006 at 16:41
    Here's a nice article about the so-called draco (dragon) standard of Sarmatians, Alans, Parthians, and later Romans.

http://www.fectio.org.uk/articles/draco.htm

Article says: "The draco Standard was originally developed by the cavalry peoples of the steppes, such as the Sarmatians and the Alans, but also by the Parthians and the Sassanid Persians. It may have been used primarily to determine the wind-direction for the horse archers."

As many of the researchers admit, most of the known "dragon" standards look more life wolves/dogs rather than dragons!

Sarmatian standard from Trajan's Column:


Article says: "Not all such standards had dragon heads. The one below on the left from Trajan's Column shows the tubular tail with streamers attached. The head looks more like a dog (with ears) than a dragon. "

Reconstruction drawing by Gerry Embleton, showing a Sarmatian in Roman service, based on the Chester stele as well as the 'dog' draco from Trajans Column:



Reconstruction drawing by Angus McBride, showing a Parthian 'fish':



The Draco found in Niederbieber, Germany:


Article: "The Roman draco developed into a real dragon, without ears but with scales and a crest. The only fully preserved draco was found in the Limes fortress of Niederbieber in Germany, which dates to the 3rd century."


Perhaps originally it was never a dragon at all, but a wolf/dog used by the steppe nomads and Persians.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Dec-2006 at 16:57
When was the Turkic Golden Wolf banner found? are there other's? it look awesome, I know the Wolf has mythological importance for the Turkic people's, these are also recorded in Chinease written records.    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Dec-2006 at 19:25
It's in very good condition! How and in what was it found? A tomb?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BAWIR$AQ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Dec-2006 at 19:28
Guys, please read carefully. The one on the color photos is the original banner's replica in Kazak capital Astana.

The original banner is kept in St. Petersburg, Russia.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Dec-2006 at 19:33
Is there a picture?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BAWIR$AQ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Dec-2006 at 19:39
Originally posted by Zagros Zagros wrote:

Is there a picture?



I am not sure if it is the same banner which was found in Northern Kazakstan, or a different banner (Perm region in Urals?), but it is in St.Petersburg's Hermitage.

This article writes:
"It is made of silver and comes from the Government of Perm in Russia. This Sassanian piece of the 7th century A.D. shows a dragon-like head of hybrid (dog- or wolf-shaped) character with an open mouth and chased embosse decoration. It also has a vertical perforation for a pole.

K.V. Trever: Un étendard Sassanide. Musée de l'Ermitage, Travaux du Département Oriental, tome III, Léningrad, 1940, pp. 167=78, Pls. I-II."


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shinai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Dec-2006 at 19:43
That is cool, very nice post, thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DayI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Dec-2006 at 09:47
if it dates to sarmatians or skythians, then is it wright to call it Turkic?
But i do know Turkic people used that too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Dec-2006 at 10:14
its pretty cool looking, (artistically a bit east Asian?)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Deli Kurt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jan-2007 at 05:00
Wolf is the sacred animal of all Turcic tribes . In the legend of DEDE KORKUT (GORGUT ATA ) ,It is said that : the face of Wolf is sacred . Today , in many parts of anatolia the people of old Turkoman conquerors respect still the wolf and avoid to kill him as much as possible
    "Die Menschen müssen einsehen lernen, daß, wer nicht Deutsch kann, ein Paria ist." H.S Chamberlain
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ProMongol Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jan-2007 at 11:51
Here is some Mongol traditions regarding the wolf.
 
1) Mongol legends say Mongols are originated from Borte Chinu father (Grey Wolf) and Goo Maral (beautiful female deer)
 
2) Mongols say when you see wolf kill it.
 
Wolf is smart.
If you never see wolf, you are not smart enough to see wolf.
If you see wolf, you are equally smart like wolf.
If you kill the wolf, you are smarter than wolf.
 
Every mongol men hunt a wolf, just to get high spirit of it.
 
3) Mongols honour the wolf and hunt them down. Skinning the wolf, dividing useful parts and burying it afterward is ritualistic.
Most Mongol man carry wolf knuckle bone as an amulet intended to bring good luck.
They don't show it,
They don't/should not receive wolf knuckle bone as gift.
They don't give away or present wolf knuckle bone as gift.
 
Mongols say:- If you want wolf bone amulet that brings you good luck, you can get from wolf
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Deli Kurt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jan-2007 at 11:56

very interesting and important remarks ...thank you

    "Die Menschen müssen einsehen lernen, daß, wer nicht Deutsch kann, ein Paria ist." H.S Chamberlain
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shinai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jan-2007 at 19:56
Originally posted by ProMongol ProMongol wrote:

 
  
Mongols say:- If you want wolf bone amulet that brings you good luck, you can get from wolf
 
 
My dad caught 3 of them by his jeep, near sardasht City in Norst west of Iran, just forgot to take the bonesLOL, We left the bodies there to help the other wolves to celebrate, thanks budy you helped me to feel smartWink.
.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ProMongol Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jan-2007 at 20:03
Originally posted by shinai shinai wrote:

Originally posted by ProMongol ProMongol wrote:

 
  
Mongols say:- If you want wolf bone amulet that brings you good luck, you can get from wolf
 
 
My dad caught 3 of them by his jeep, near sardasht City in Norst west of Iran, just forgot to take the bonesLOL, We left the bodies there to help the other wolves to celebrate, thanks budy you helped me to feel smartWink.
.
 
I don't understand laughing matter about that. I don't know Iranian folk tradition. I hope that you are just trying to be funny.
I saw many hunt wolf by 4W drive nowadays/ automatic rifle.
In a old time it was kind of challenge.


Edited by ProMongol - 25-Jan-2007 at 11:39
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jan-2007 at 03:40
Originally posted by ProMongol ProMongol wrote:

Originally posted by shinai shinai wrote:

Originally posted by ProMongol ProMongol wrote:

 
  
Mongols say:- If you want wolf bone amulet that brings you good luck, you can get from wolf
 
 
My dad caught 3 of them by his jeep, near sardasht City in Norst west of Iran, just forgot to take the bonesLOL, We left the bodies there to help the other wolves to celebrate, thanks budy you helped me to feel smartWink.
.
 
I don't understand laughing matter about that. I hope that you are trying to be funny.
I saw many hunt wolf by 4W drive nowadays/ automatic rifle.
In a old time it was kind of challenge.


Not really

Hmmm Mongols = steppe people = Worlds best mounted archers ever so hmm no
I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BAWIR$AQ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2007 at 01:52
Avar warrior holding the wolf banner

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