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Forum LockedTurk Warriors

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Turkoglu View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Turkoglu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Turk Warriors
    Posted: 06-Jan-2006 at 17:16
Turkic Heavy Cavalry



Turkmen Warriors



Hunnic Warrior



Avar Cavalry



Hunnic Warriors



Uzbeg (Ozbek) Warrior



Khazar warriors



Kuman Warrior (Hungary)



Ottoman Sipahi





Pecheneg(Peçenek) Warrior



Khirgiz(Kırgız) and Kimak Warriors



Huns







Seljuk(Selçuk) Warrior



Gokturk, Turgish & eastern Turk tribesman



Turkmen & Azerbaijani Warriors



Hope You Like it!

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Lmprs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jan-2006 at 17:44
When did we use heavy cavalry?

By the way, Huns are my favourite.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jan-2006 at 17:50

Originally posted by barish

When did we use heavy cavalry?

I was going to say the same thing... Or at least not barded cavalry. 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote vulkan02 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jan-2006 at 20:14
Thats not really Huns thats Mongols but its similar i guess.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Mila Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jan-2006 at 21:14
They look good.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Lmprs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jan-2006 at 06:03
I never thought I was going to say this one day, but they really look different from us.

It's nonsense to claim that the modern Turkish people are Turkified Greeks, but I don't know how to explain this huge physical difference.



Edited by barish
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jan-2006 at 06:12

Well, parts of Hellenic population in Asia Minor were Turkified.So a part of modern Turks are coming from Turkified Hellens.Not all of course but a small part yes.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Lmprs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jan-2006 at 07:07
Yeah, I think it is possible in Aegean region.

But I don't think they are much more numerous than Hellenized Turks.

Anyway, I was talking about the whole Turkish population.

It is hard to find someone who shares the slighest similarity with the guys you see above.

Not that I value the concept of race, but sometimes I ask myself if environmental conditions can affect this much.

I mean, hair and skin color may change, but what about the eyes?



Edited by barish
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Post Options Post Options   Quote OSMANLI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jan-2006 at 07:26

SelamAleykum Turkoglu,

Well Done on your topic !!!

The Turkic history in this forum used to be lively and exciting when i first joined AE, it then somehow went into the dark ages. But thanks to you it once again is getting exciting, Tesukur ederim!!!

Great pics, i do not think they look so diffrent from modern day Turks. However the pics that depict more easternly Turks do look more Mongoloid. This is due to mixture with Mongols. The Turks from the west had mixture from other cultures to, Thus making us have a westernly twist. On the whole i would say we still have a Turkic look, accept for places such as Istanbul were it is harder to find.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote ahiskali Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jan-2006 at 08:27
I don't know about you but look like some of these warriors. (I come from nort east turkey)( actualy my great grand parents come from Ahiska modernday Georgia)

Turks mixed with a lot of people and I mean a Lot.
eaven if you have a few % other blood then turkic you might look different but the way you look can't always determine were somebody comes from.
It can be traced with the Y chromosone.

my english isn't spectacular. I hope you understood what i was triying to make clear.


Edited by ahiskali
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Lmprs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jan-2006 at 10:34
Hmm, I think I get it. Is this what you say?

A person with %95 Turkish heritage may look different from his Turkic ancestors.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jan-2006 at 11:22

Y chromosome tracing is faulty too, you cannot determine race from Y chromosome.

For example:

Let us pretend a British man with R1b had a baby boy with an Indian woman 200 years ago.

the boy will have R1b chromosome but will look half Indian.  Ok then the boy will marry another full Indian woman and have another son, a granndson of the english man.  The grandson will also carry the R1a chromosome but will look completely Indian.  This process can continue indefinately and the males could marry, africans, chinese etc and the son will always have the english R1a chromosome but only a tiny tiny fraction of him will actually be english.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote ahiskali Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jan-2006 at 11:27
Originally posted by barish

Hmm, I think I get it. Is this what you say?

A person with %95 Turkish heritage may look different from his Turkic ancestors.

yes exactly

oh yeah BTW I ment with the y chromosone that you can track the ancestors of that persone not how he looks I mean I don't remember witch president of america i think jefressons or one of the finding fathers or something like that had middleeastern acestors.


Edited by ahiskali
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Turkoglu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jan-2006 at 18:25
Thanks OSMANLI,
By the way georgraphy is an important fact in physical appereance.
there are some things that cannot change like skull shape and facts like that . For example The Turks of Turkey are in effect of the mediterranean geography, Turks, Italians and Greeks look little bit similar, the one thing that cannot change is your genetics (skullshape and the other facts).

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Beylerbeyi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jan-2006 at 20:51

There is no such thing as 'race' in human species, genetically speaking. Turkish genetics are mostly local. Local genetics include all the ethnicities of Anatolia, including, but not limited to, Greeks. There is nothing surprising about this.

Don't worry about not having Central Asian genes. It doesn't make you less Turkish. Being a Turk (or Ottoman or Seljuk) is about culture, not about genetics. This is what Turks believed throughout the history. This is what Seljuks believed, and what the Ottomans believed.

If you think that being a Turk is about genetics, you are not thinking like a Turk, you are imitating European racists of the past. Any Turk (or indeed Middle Eastern) who believes in such crap is an alien to his/her culture.

Dolayýsýyla, 'arabacý nasýl araba deðilse, Türkçü de Türk deðildir.'

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jan-2006 at 21:09

Of course race exists, believing that so does not make one a racist.  But as far as identity goes, it is futile to base it on race alone espcially in a place so diverse as the Middle East.  As for this head shape, eye shape thing goes, I think it is variable depending on region, there are areas more heavily settled by the Turkish tribes and it is more evident in the appearance of the descendants of such regions (towns, villages). For example in Iran there are Torki villages where the population looks Uzbek and others where they look like Mazandaranis and others in west Azarbaijan look like Kurds.

From what I have seen it is the same in Turkey, some regions they are really Greek looking, others "Turanid" and others like Northern MEers/Armenians/Kurds.



Edited by Zagros
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Post Options Post Options   Quote çok geç Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jan-2006 at 05:04

Originally posted by Beylerbeyi

Turkish genetics are mostly local. Local genetics include all the ethnicities of Anatolia, including, but not limited to, Greeks. There is nothing surprising about this.

As Zagros said earlier, there is human races of course. However, I will agree with Beylerbeyi that there is no Turkish race for Turkey. As he said, all Turkish citizens came from a mixture of local genes and foriegn genes. What is Turkey now used to be Hatay, Armenians, Kurds, Hellens and more all either mixed or not with Turkic genes or not in some cases (as Bosnak Turks and Slav Turks).

Anyhow, definitely Turkey is Turkic more by culture, but not by genes. At least that is what I learned and experienced so far.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote OSMANLI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jan-2006 at 05:33

Beylerberyi one would think from your sayings that the Turks of Turkey have no relation to the Central Asian Turks

I think being a Turk is about genetics to a certain extent. I disagree with the 'pure race' notion. I think one must find a balance in blood (having a genetic link with a race) and culture. With this theory the Oguz Turks (Turkey, TRNC, Azeri etc) all fit into the Turkic race.

Being a Turk (or Ottoman or Seljuk) is about culture, not about genetics. This is what Turks believed throughout the history. This is what Seljuks believed, and what the Ottomans believed.

The Ottoman's would tell of Osman's lineage to the great Oguz tribe and the Prophet Nuh (Noah) from his son Japheth. This was to add legitimacy to their rule as well as the prestige of coming from a grand family.

However you do have a point since in those days people were not worried about race as they do today. All this fuss about race started thanks to Darwin with his THEORY.



Edited by OSMANLI

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Post Options Post Options   Quote ahiskali Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jan-2006 at 06:32
You are what you are I mean if you feel like a turk act like a turk and etc
you are a turk.

Turks don't value where you come from they value what you can with this I mean. In the old turkic armies and mongolian bloodline ment allmost nothing only strenght and skills. Turks don't judge you for what you are but for who you are
Well it juste to be. Knowadays we have politicals who blame all the problems on an ethnic group of a country

It isn't about the collour of the skin but about what you believe.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Beylerbeyi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jan-2006 at 13:31

Of course race exists, believing that so does not make one a racist.

What 'of course'? Human genetic variance is clinal, not racial. Humans are a relatively new species with a population bottleneck event in history. There are monoracial mammals with up to three times human genetic diversity. Human so-called races are social and anthropological constructs, based on cosmetic differences, they don't correspond to any genetic reality. Hence, as I wrote;

There is no such thing as 'race' in human species, genetically speaking.

From what I have seen it is the same in Turkey, some regions they are really Greek looking, others "Turanid" and others like Northern MEers/Armenians/Kurds.

There are differences in the way people look in Turkey, but I don't think they are primarily due to Central Asian influence. Turkey is large as the whole Balkans, and is as mountainous, it is quite normal to have variance in looks. I think 5-10% of genes is a realistic estimate of CA genetic influence. Of course, this does not mean that only 5% in Turkey are 'real Turks' (I add this disclaimer due to the racists here). The genes would have been distributed among the population. 

Beylerberyi one would think from your sayings that the Turks of Turkey have no relation to the Central Asian Turks

And where does the language come from? The Caribbean? Turks are a Turkic ethnicity closely related to other Turkics on both sides of the Caspian.

I think being a Turk is about genetics to a certain extent. I disagree with the 'pure race' notion. I think one must find a balance in blood (having a genetic link with a race) and culture. With this theory the Oguz Turks (Turkey, TRNC, Azeri etc) all fit into the Turkic race.

Even if you ignore genetics and follow anthropological classifications to define races, there is still no such thing as a 'Turkic race'. Turkic ethnicities are related to each other by lingusitic ties, not by genetics. Similarly, both Sudanese and Syrians speak Arabic, but they don't 'fit into the Arabic race'. 

The Ottoman's would tell of Osman's lineage to the great Oguz tribe and the Prophet Nuh (Noah) from his son Japheth. This was to add legitimacy to their rule as well as the prestige of coming from a grand family.

Yes. For their family only. It was not to prove the legitimacy of their society. They would never think of inventing Central Asian ties for everyone to legitimise their ethnicity. This is a sign of insecurity. Ottomans were secure, because they were strong. Same goes for Americans, anyone can be an American.

Modern Turkey, on the other hand, is insecure because it is weak. Turkish Republic got influenced by the Western ideas of racism and ethnic-state and tried to legitimise itself by inventing Central Asian genetic ties for the Anatolian population. This is a stupid approach. Turks already know what they are. Our culture and language are powerful enough to define our identity. As a result of this stupid policy (abandoned by the West by now) I know many Turks who don't call themselves 'Turk', because they know that their grandparents are Pomak or Cerkes or Bosniak or whatever, but in school they learned that we came from Central Asia.

However you do have a point since in those days people were not worried about race as they do today. All this fuss about race started thanks to Darwin with his THEORY.

This is wrong. Biological racism predates Darwin in the West. Modern racism starts with Western colonialism. 

Always try to be as radical as reality itself. - Lenin
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