History Community ~ All Empires Homepage


This is the Archive on WORLD Historia, the old original forum.

 You cannot post here - you can only read.

 

Here is the link to the new forum:

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Forum LockedChronology of Central Asian History

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
Author
Basmachi View Drop Down
Janissary
Janissary
Avatar

Joined: 26-May-2009
Location: TURAN
Status: Offline
Points: 21
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Basmachi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Chronology of Central Asian History
    Posted: 26-May-2009 at 01:50
Originally posted by Afghanan Afghanan wrote:

The Hephtalites were subjects of the Avars, not the Avars themselves.


Hephtalites can be subjects of Huns(Xiong-Nus). Some sources call the White Huns(Akhuns). But It's not a certain idea.
"Yesterday is but today's memory, tomorrow is today's dream." (Khalil Gibran)
Back to Top
Afghanan View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
Durr e Durran

Joined: 12-Jun-2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1076
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Afghanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jan-2008 at 17:34
The Hephtalites were subjects of the Avars, not the Avars themselves.
The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
~ Khushal Khan Khattak
Back to Top
maqsad View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar

Joined: 25-Aug-2006
Status: Offline
Points: 928
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maqsad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Dec-2007 at 10:07
Originally posted by kotumeyil kotumeyil wrote:

I found the chronology from the following links:

http://www.oxuscom.com/cahist1.htm

http://www.oxuscom.com/cahist2.htm

I'm not sure if the dates or events are correct but they might be helpful for any researh on the related subjects...


c. 370
The Huns invade Europe from the Central Asian steppe.

440
The Hephthalites (White Huns, later known in the West as the Avars) move south from the Altai region to occupy Transoxiana, Bactria, Khurasan, and eastern Persia.

c. 460
The Hephthalites conquer the Kushans and invade India.

552
The Turks destroy the Juan-juan Empire and establish the Turkic Khaganate, nominally divided into Western and Eastern Khanates.

553-68
The Turks and Sassanians ally to destroy the Hephthalite Empire.

late 6th cent.
The Hephthalites move west to the Russian steppe to form the Avar Khanate.



This is just plain wrong, the Avars did not even begin to move south before the 500s. Shocked

Originally posted by Seko Seko wrote:

A long and intensive list of steppe dates. Kind of gives us quick access to various timelines. I always wondered about these guys - The Hephthalites (White Huns). Seems that they are listed as Avars here.


Seems like there are a few discrepencies here, and no sources listed by the author. Strange. Confused

Originally posted by Seko Seko wrote:

Back then Mongolia proper was not as it would be 500 years later. Many Turk tribes of various distinctions would later move on out. A few have remained. And with Mongolian written records not predating the time of Cengiz Han, it makes it more difficult to know who the Avars or, in this case, the Juan Juan were. Does anyone have info on the first documented usuage of Mongol peoples or language?


Written records of the Chinese, and codified versions of the Orghuz Dastans. Approve
Back to Top
Hulegu Han View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 10-Apr-2007
Location: Mongolia
Status: Offline
Points: 28
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hulegu Han Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Apr-2007 at 15:01
Originally posted by Qin Dynasty Qin Dynasty wrote:

I think u highly exaggrated the numbers of both troops, and the failure of Ming troops was nothing to do with the strength of Mongols. The 21years old emperor was misleaded by his favored eunuch who, in order to show off, wanted the emperor to pay a visit to his house where was bordering the fronter. Regardless the strong resistence of generals.(just check where Tumu is, u will know it well) That left the chance for Mongols. And the Mongols grasped the chance and surrenderred the Ming troops for several days, do u  buy it that 20,000 had the ability to surrender 250,000 Ming troops?
The consequence of this event is also not what u expected, as new emperor took the throne and domestic situation went ease, the Mongols blackmailed nothing from China side. This annoyed the Mongols ,resulting  a second invasion which they  recieved a totally defeat.  Khan Esen's brother was killed in that battle. Khan Esen himself narrawly escaped and his troops almost annihilated. The captured emperor returned home after Mongol fled north and asked negociation with China.
 
If u want talk something ' remarkable' at that era,  instead of what u posted, which I think is tiny in significance, the five great expeditions of Ming troops against Mongols would make sense, under which the Mongols were not only swept off from China, but also droven to the north of Gobi desert and split into two. Though they thought the vast Gobi desert could be protective screen for their survival and duck behind it with harshing China border time to time, they were wrong again, they never posed a serious threat to China since then and after recieved consistent beat, they finally subdued to Ming dynasty.
Iwant you to give more information about the five great expeditions of Ming troops against Mongols? As far as I know it's not 5, 4 instead.
Back to Top
Savdogar View Drop Down
Janissary
Janissary
Avatar

Joined: 20-Jul-2006
Location: Uzbekistan
Status: Offline
Points: 58
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Savdogar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jul-2006 at 08:09
Karimov is not idiot, he is very clever. He is just evil.
 
Turkmenbashi, well, turkmen TV shows only him if I am not mistaken.
 
He cultivated Rukhname as that  was "Quran" for Turkmens.
 
I have read it, nothing stupid was published before. He thinks he is one of 3 greatest leaders of world. even he claims to be "prophet".
 
Thanks to Allah, that we haven't seen such stupid like Turkmenbashi.
Back to Top
yan. View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard


Joined: 15-Apr-2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 352
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yan. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jul-2006 at 08:08
Originally posted by Qin Dynasty Qin Dynasty wrote:

  
 
I think u highly exaggrated the numbers of both troops, and the failure of Ming troops was nothing to do with the strength of Mongols. The 21years old emperor was misleaded by his favored eunuch who, in order to show off, wanted the emperor to pay a visit to his house where was bordering the fronter. Regardless the strong resistence of generals.(just check where Tumu is, u will know it well) That left the chance for Mongols. And the Mongols grasped the chance and surrenderred the Ming troops for several days, do u  buy it that 20,000 had the ability to surrender 250,000 Ming troops?
 
The consequence of this event is also not what u expected, as new emperor took the throne and domestic situation went ease, the Mongols blackmailed nothing from China side. This annoyed the Mongols ,resulting  a second invasion which they  recieved a totally defeat.  Khan Esen's brother was killed in that battle. Khan Esen himself narrawly escaped and his troops almost annihilated. The captured emperor returned home after Mongol fled north and asked negociation with China.
 
If u want talk something ' remarkable' at that era,  instead of what u posted, which I think is tiny in significance, the five great expeditions of Ming troops against Mongols would make sense, under which the Mongols were not only swept off from China, but also droven to the north of Gobi desert and split into two. Though they thought the vast Gobi desert could be protective screen for their survival and duck behind it with harshing China border time to time, they were wrong again, they never posed a serious threat to China since then and after recieved consistent beat, they finally subdued to Ming dynasty.
 
Did those Five expeditions take place before or after the re-erection of the Great Wall? Thank you.


Edited by yan. - 12-Jul-2006 at 08:09
Back to Top
Temujin View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar
Sirdar Bahadur

Joined: 02-Aug-2004
Location: Eurasia
Status: Offline
Points: 5237
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-May-2006 at 14:09
from what i've read the Ming army simply disintegrated because they ran into serious logistical problems (water shortage) which seems logical considdering the huge number of Ming troops. those who did not surrender to the Oirats were cut down, obviously those were not many of course only 20,000 Oirats can not defeat that many troops on a tactical level...
Back to Top
poirot View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar
Editorial Staff

Joined: 21-May-2005
Location: Belgium
Status: Offline
Points: 1838
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote poirot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-May-2006 at 02:04
Neither, simply disbanded or lay mutilated and resting in the streets of Peking.  Esen Khan could not absorb 250,000, and it was impossible for 250,000 to get killed at once.  Like all defeats of big armies, the bigger army simply disbands or retreats.  Btw, the official number of the Ming army at Tumu is 500,000.
AAAAAAAAAA
"The crisis of yesterday is the joke of tomorrow.�   ~ HG Wells
           
Back to Top
BigL View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard


Joined: 30-May-2005
Status: Offline
Points: 817
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BigL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-May-2006 at 01:41
So the 250,000 ming soldiers surrendered or were killed?>
Back to Top
Qin Dynasty View Drop Down
Shogun
Shogun
Avatar

Joined: 08-Jan-2006
Location: China
Status: Offline
Points: 210
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Qin Dynasty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-May-2006 at 14:06
Originally posted by Zorigo Zorigo wrote:

Add to your long list most remarkable victory of Oirad Mongols by Oirad Mongols khan Esen

In 1449 The Mongol victory was won by an advance guard of only 20,000 cavalry over Ming Chinese force of 250000. The emperor  Zhengtong Emperor was captured on September 1, 1449 , and on September 3 was sent to Esen's main camp near Xianfu. 

Remarkable or unbelievable beat

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhengtong_Emperor

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tumu_Crisis

 

 
 
I think u highly exaggrated the numbers of both troops, and the failure of Ming troops was nothing to do with the strength of Mongols. The 21years old emperor was misleaded by his favored eunuch who, in order to show off, wanted the emperor to pay a visit to his house where was bordering the fronter. Regardless the strong resistence of generals.(just check where Tumu is, u will know it well) That left the chance for Mongols. And the Mongols grasped the chance and surrenderred the Ming troops for several days, do u  buy it that 20,000 had the ability to surrender 250,000 Ming troops?
 
The consequence of this event is also not what u expected, as new emperor took the throne and domestic situation went ease, the Mongols blackmailed nothing from China side. This annoyed the Mongols ,resulting  a second invasion which they  recieved a totally defeat.  Khan Esen's brother was killed in that battle. Khan Esen himself narrawly escaped and his troops almost annihilated. The captured emperor returned home after Mongol fled north and asked negociation with China.
 
If u want talk something ' remarkable' at that era,  instead of what u posted, which I think is tiny in significance, the five great expeditions of Ming troops against Mongols would make sense, under which the Mongols were not only swept off from China, but also droven to the north of Gobi desert and split into two. Though they thought the vast Gobi desert could be protective screen for their survival and duck behind it with harshing China border time to time, they were wrong again, they never posed a serious threat to China since then and after recieved consistent beat, they finally subdued to Ming dynasty.


Edited by Qin Dynasty - 16-May-2006 at 14:13
Back to Top
Zorigo View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar
suspended

Joined: 27-Apr-2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 73
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zorigo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Apr-2006 at 17:06

Add to your long list most remarkable victory of Oirad Mongols by Oirad Mongols khan Esen

In 1449 The Mongol victory was won by an advance guard of only 20,000 cavalry over Ming Chinese force of 250000. The emperor  Zhengtong Emperor was captured on September 1, 1449 , and on September 3 was sent to Esen's main camp near Xianfu. 

Remarkable or unbelievable beat

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhengtong_Emperor

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tumu_Crisis

 



Edited by Zorigo
Back to Top
gok_toruk View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar
9 Oghuz

Joined: 28-Apr-2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1832
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Mar-2006 at 02:31
Now I'm not striking up the conversation again.This topic's closed. It was just a reply. Forget about it. Thanks.
Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
Back to Top
gok_toruk View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar
9 Oghuz

Joined: 28-Apr-2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1832
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Mar-2006 at 02:30
Well, one thing I'll say for all these things is that YOU HAVEN'T BEEN IN TURKMENISTAN to see what he's done. I'm not justifying him... everybody's got both good & Bad sides; the thing is that you've got to be totally useful for the systematic process. He's been, we belive, quite useful so far. Thanks for all your comments anyhow. Take care...
Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
Back to Top
Zagros View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor
Avatar
retired AE Moderator

Joined: 11-Aug-2004
Location: London
Status: Offline
Points: 8795
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Mar-2006 at 18:27
Originally posted by gok_toruk gok_toruk wrote:

Oh, Zagros, you see Emam Khomeyni and Emam Khamene'i everywhere in Iran too...

I know he's like a dictator, I agree. But he's done a lot of things in Turkmenistan. We had nothing before 1991; still we lack many things. But, Sapar Myrat Niyazov, as I myself think, has brought many improvements here. Others may think in another way. Take care...

Khoemeini is idolised by fanatic followers of his extreme Shie doctrine, Turkmenbashi building that statue of himself suggests he is somewhat of a megalomanic.  If people erected the statue after, that is something else

Back to Top
Iranian41ife View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 24-Dec-2005
Location: Tajikista
Status: Offline
Points: 1832
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Iranian41ife Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Mar-2006 at 17:53
Originally posted by gok_toruk gok_toruk wrote:

Oh, Zagros, you see Emam Khomeyni and Emam Khamene'i everywhere in Iran too...

and thats why we hate them

your justifing one dictator by comparing them to other dictators? it doesnt make sense.

well, the mullahs did a lot of good things for iran also, but at the end of the day they are dictators, killers, selfish, and corrupt.

"If they attack Iran, of course I will fight. But I will be fighting to defend Iran... my land. I will not be fighting for the government and the nuclear cause." ~ Hamid, veteran of the Iran Iraq War
Back to Top
Suevari View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 04-Mar-2006
Status: Offline
Points: 85
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Suevari Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Mar-2006 at 16:09
Turkmenbashis statue revolves so his outstretched arms greet the rising and setting sun LOL.  Got that from Rise of the Turkic World by Hugh Pope.

Turkish representatives had to persuade this ...lunatic?... not to choose Ataturkmen after Ataturk - so he settled with Turkmenbashi.
www.passport.panda.org
SIGN UP TO PARTICIPATE IN NATURAL PRESERVATION
Back to Top
Your_Overlord View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 17-Sep-2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 0
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Your_Overlord Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2006 at 15:33
Originally posted by blitz blitz wrote:

Originally posted by Chingis Chingis wrote:

1921 Outer mongolia declared independence from China

Was it not 1911? And was it not Manju-Qing Dynasty? China is the wrong term in this case.  

Wrong, China is the correct term.  Pretty much all Manchu descendents are part of today's Chinese population.  The term "China" and "Chinese" was created during the Qing dynasty with approval of the administration.  "CHina" is a term designated for a nation state that does not have any ethnic restrictions. 



Edited by Your_Overlord
"All under heaven is one family"
Back to Top
Turkoglu View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 06-Jan-2006
Location: Turkey
Status: Offline
Points: 176
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Turkoglu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2006 at 10:17
Originally posted by kotumeyil kotumeyil wrote:

I didn't mean anything. I quoted the indicated site.


ok

Back to Top
kotumeyil View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 21-Jun-2005
Location: Turkey
Status: Offline
Points: 1495
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kotumeyil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2006 at 10:07
I didn't mean anything. I quoted the indicated site.
Back to Top
Turkoglu View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 06-Jan-2006
Location: Turkey
Status: Offline
Points: 176
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Turkoglu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2006 at 08:46
Originally posted by kotumeyil kotumeyil wrote:

744/45
The Uighurs defeat the Turks in Mongolia and establish the Uighur Empire.



Uighur and Turk is the same thing,
Did you mean GokTurk empire?

Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.109 seconds.