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Forum LockedBelarus vs Poland

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    Posted: 19-May-2005 at 17:35

The problems arised soon after orange revolution in Ukraine. President Lukashenko of Belarus accused Poland for organising ukrainian revolution and said that he knows well what Poles are trying to do now in Belarus but he wont allowe for any polish terrorism.  Right now he is trying to treat polish minority in Belarus like his hostages and is trying to destroy organisations of polish minority. He has also expelled one of polish diplomats. His words in belorusian TV are full of anti polish rethoric and last week he even said that Poland wants to change Belarus into new Kosovo.

I guess he is asking us to liberate our countrymen and his own people from his regime.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Exarchus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2005 at 17:55
He's just a dictator close to fall down.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jul-2005 at 22:14
Since my last post situation has changed into worse. After Belarus expelled Polish diplomate, Poland answered in the same way. Both countries started to expell diplomates what is still continuned. Whats more President Lukashenko in fact delegalised the Association of Poles in Belarus and arrested some of members accusing them for espionage. Polish minister of foreign affairs Adam Rotfeld called Polish ambasador from Minsk back to Poland "for consultations". Diplomatic relations between Belarus and Poland may  soon be broken. Poland's goverment is considering foundation of independten radio and TV station on the border with Belarus which will be run by  expelled members of belorusian oposition parties. Poland also asked European Union for support.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the Bulgarian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Jul-2005 at 02:30

Originally posted by Mosquito Mosquito wrote:

...I guess he is asking us to liberate our countrymen and his own people from his regime.

I think he is asking for some serious ass-kicking.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Jul-2005 at 09:58

Polish moves against Belarus may trigger counter moves from Russia, as Poland is now a NATO member.

The Russians still see NATO as an anti-Russian force, and would not be eager to see any Polish security presence closer to their border.  I am not saying war would break out, but I have felt since the breakup of the USSR that Russia has been looking for an opportunity to reaquire some of the territories formerly part of Russia's areas of control.  Belarus is one.......and instability in the area probably would result.

There are other ways to deal with the problem.  Poland and Russia could both put pressure on Lukashenko to behave himself.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kalevipoeg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Jul-2005 at 10:28
I don't know if Russia would need a polite Belarus as he has never liked Poland anyways and would he not rather side with Lukashenko. And isn't Belarus Russias puppet or atleast a volunteer buttock kisser of Vladimir aswell?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Aug-2005 at 18:24

Putin and most of Russians right now belive that orange revolution on Ukraine was made by polish secret services which were sponsored by USA. Being afraid of similar situation in Belarus both Lukashenko and Putin adopted anti polish rhetoric and policy. Every day belorusian state owned TV gives antipolish programs and also presents Polish minority in Belarus as payed traitors and secret agents of the west. Yesterday in the belorusian news they even said that Poland is a state - prostitute.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kalevipoeg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Aug-2005 at 16:12
It seems that the propaganda from the first days of the USSR hasn't changed one bit. Too many Russian commoners are still under state and pro-national influence, and are therefore one of the dumbest people alive. Although, a smart Russian is one of the nicest and intelligent people on this planet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Doe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Aug-2005 at 07:58
lucky poland is bestest friends with the US

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Aug-2005 at 21:34
It wont help much. The whole intrigue is inspired by Moscow and there is not much we can do to help 400.000 of our countrymen in Belarus. Actually the leaders of Association of Poles in Belarus are arrested. If it was only a problem between us and Belarus we would have simply kicked their arses.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Genghis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Aug-2005 at 23:07
If there is a war between Poland and Belarus, who do you think will win?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Illuminati Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Aug-2005 at 23:29

Poland would win I think. But how long would the fight remain only Poland and Belarus?? thats the real question. Lets just hope for a peaceful solution to this problem.

 I don't want Putin feeling threatened. that scares me.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Aug-2005 at 08:57

Belarus is not a serious opponent and in case of war Poland would win fast. But war is not an option. There is also Russian army on territory of Belarus.

After collapse of Soviet Union Belarus inherited a lot of good soviet equipment. But Belarusian army is ill trained, equipment which 15 years ago belonged to the most advanced in the world is not well maintaned. To repair tanks and aircrafts they are dismounting other tanks and aircrafts. Wide use of vodka and low discipline in the Belarusian army resulted in demoralisation of the troops. Altough Belarus if necessary can mobilise about 400.00 soldiers , those troops would rather flee than fight.

But as I said earlier, war is not an option. Instead Poland will rather support Belarusian opposition.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Aug-2005 at 10:08

There are many interesting comments on net:

"Friday, July 29, 2005

Poland vs Belarus -- Lessons in history

Poland's history has always revolved around freedom. But unlike some nations, Poland is showing herself to be an avid student of history and is working hard to avoid repeating mistakes.

Poland is leading the charge against neighbour Belarus, the home of Europe's last dictator Alexander Lukashenko.  Poland knows a lot about the dangers of leaving dictators to fester.  In 1933, Poland approached France to join in a plan to move in on Germany, having recognized the danger the newly installed leader Adolf Hitler would pose not just to Poland, but to all of Europe.

France declined, and the rest is history.  A lesson to all those who screech against "preemptive war" aimed at dictators.

True to form, though, the EU is doing little to support fellow member Poland.  The result is interesting.  Democrats in Belarus are looking to Warsaw, and not Paris, for leadership.  The Polish capital is seen by the oppressed as the capital of "New Europe".  Other nations supportive of Belarus democratization are taking their cues from Kwasniewski, and not Chirac."

 

"Friday, 05 August 2005

News Watch: Belarus Jails Ethnic Poles as Row with Poland Escalates

By Stefan J. Bos, Chief International Correspondent, BosNewsLife

MINSK/BUDAPEST (BosNewsLife)-- A diplomatic row is escalating between Poland and neighboring Belarus, where members of the ethnic-Polish minority say they are being harassed by the government following earlier reports that Protestant Christians were being persecuted there, BosNewsLife monitored Friday, August 5.

On Thursday, August 4, Andrzej Pisalnik, informal spokesman for an ethnic Polish group in Belarus, was found guilty of taking part in an unlicensed demonstration and sentenced to 10 days in jail.

The action is the latest development in a dispute between the Polish minority in Belarus and the government of President Alexander Lukashenko. Earlier this week, another official of the group, Veslaw Kewlyak, received a 15 days jail term on charges of "illegally" meeting a visiting Polish parliamentarian.

POLISH ROW

Polish Speaker of Parliament Wlodzimierz Cimoszewicz fears the row could lead to end of official diplomatic relations between the two countries. "We try not to overreact. But on the other hand some steps are unfortunately necessary when they expelled more and more Polish diplomats. I hope it will be solved. But I can not exclude a pessimistic negative scenario, which may even result in closing embassies in each others capitals," he told Polish radio.

About 400,000 ethnic Poles live in Belarus, mainly in areas that were part of Poland until World War II. Presidential elections are expected as early as 2006, and Polish political analyst Krzysztof Mularczyk said Lukashenko fears growing resentment toward him among Poles and other groups.

"He is [beginning] to feel encircled and he, like many authoritarians, wants to have an enemy that he can fight," he explained. "And I think he has identified the Polish minority as something that he can sell as an internal threat within Belarus and try to build up some kind of false national unity against [influence] from the West."

BELARUS ANGRY

President Lukashenko has reportedly accused Poland of plotting to overthrow his government through the ethnic Polish minority. In recent weeks, Belarus expelled three Polish diplomats, while Poland ordered three Belarusian diplomats to leave. Poland has withdrawn its ambassador from Minsk, the capital, for what it calls consultations.

Poland, which joined the EU last year following its post-Communist transition, has asked the European Union to intervene. The EU has already expressed concern about the situation in Belarus and its human rights record, and says it supports the Polish minority.

Belarus, a former Soviet republic of over 10 million people, accuses Poland of working with other countries to try to topple its elected President Alexander Lukashenko. "

"05.08.2005

Polish TV to offer more programs to Belarusian viewers

Polish State Television will raise the number of its programmes devoted to Belarus, which are available to viewers in that country. Head of TVP Jan Dworak has informed that increasing the reach of Polish TV in Belarus is impossible without a prior consent of the local authorities, yet the channels currently accessible to viewers in Belarus will broadcast more news programmes providing unbiased information on the situation in this eastern neighbour of Poland. "

07/08/2005

"EU plans to fund opposition to Belarus 'dictator'

MURDO MACLEOD

THE European Union is set to provide cash for opposition parties in the former Soviet republic of Belarus.

Western leaders fear that president Alexander Lukashenko, widely regarded as Europe's last dictator, will attempt to influence next year's presidential election in order to stop pro-Western or pro-reform candidates taking power.

The move comes in the wake of the peaceful democratic revolutions in neighbouring Ukraine and nearby Georgia, which both saw corrupt governments ousted.

Last December, the opposition in Ukraine successfully challenged the result of a presidential election which was widely regarded as having been fiddled by the outgoing president in favour of his allies. Dirty tricks included an attempt to poison the main opposition leader, Viktor Yushchenko, and intimidation of campaign workers.

EU diplomats are considering direct funding to allow Belarus's opposition parties to compete with the pro-government campaign. If approved, it would mark a major shift in EU policy towards promoting democracy.

It would also mark a significant ramping up of pressure on the authorities in Minsk, but would risk antagonising Moscow. Russia has a close relationship with Belarus and is still smarting over what it sees as Western interference in Ukraine, which is looking to join the EU and Nato.

A document prepared by the EU policy unit says that the "Lukashenko regime is becoming increasingly repressive", pointing to the harassment of the opposition and of lobbyists for reform, and asks whether "direct/indirect opposition support" should be considered.

Brussels is also considering visa restrictions on Belarussian officials and the freezing of some of the country's overseas assets. Olga Stuzhinskaya, who represents a coalition of Belarussian opposition parties and NGOs, told the Brussels-based news magazine European Voice: "The situation for opposition parties is very bad.

"In the last couple of years all the donors have moved out and the political parties have been left on their own. Many have closed. Everyone is talking about great support for the opposition, for civil society and isolating the regime but nothing happens. The repression increases."

Many leading figures in the Belarussian opposition have been charged with criminal activities, debarring them from running in the elections - a move seen as a trick by the government to neutralise the opposition.

While the EU is unwilling to allow Belarus to continue as Europe's most repressed country, the obstacles to democratic reform are considerable.

Lukashenko has warned that anyone who attempts to spark a revolution will be treated as a "hellraiser" and given "special treatment".

In contrast to Ukraine, Belarus lacks a high-profile and well-organised opposition. Ukraine's burgeoning middle class - a factor absent in Belarus - gave much of the impetus to last year's 'Orange Revolution' in Kiev out of fear that an undemocratic government would jeopardise their standard of living. "

 

Poland, Belarus spat worsens

By UNITED PRESS INTERNATIONAL
Published July 29, 2005


BRUSSELS -- A diplomatic row between Poland and Belarus escalated after Warsaw withdrew its ambassador in protest at the treatment of Polish minorities.
    
    Following a raid on a Polish community center in the west of Belarus, Polish Foreign Minister Adam Rotfeld asked the European Commission for help. However, the commission said the dispute was a bilateral matter.

    
    The EU executive said it would monitor the situation but that any action before September was highly unlikely.
    
    With an election due next year, President Alexander Lukashenko -- dubbed the last dictator in Europe -- is apparently beginning to worry about his position. Earlier this week Lukashenko accused Poland and the United States of plotting to take over the country, which he has ruled since 1993.

Poland/Belarus diplomatic war

Written by Brussels journalist David Ferguson

Monday evening saw Polish Deputy Foreign Minister Andrzej Zalucki order the expulsion of a second Belarus diplomat from Warsaw. "This decision is an answer to the earlier, totally unjustified expulsion of the head of Polish consulate in Minsk," said Polish Foreign Ministry spokesperson Aleksander Checko.

"The Polish Foreign Ministry continues to express its readiness to seek a compromise and to improve relations with Belarus," added Checko. "For that reason, Poland foresees, in the near future, lower visa fees for Belarus citizens and also programmes aimed at developing cross-border cooperation, as well as commercial, scientific and cultural exchange," said Polish spokesperson Checko.

Poland will find it difficult to step up cultural and scientific exchange with Belarus. Late last week, Belarus authorities declared Warsaw-based Polish scientific NGO Dialog 'illegal'. According to Belarus state television, Dialog, an NGO supporting cooperation between scientists, has been accused of spying.

On 15 July, Belarus authorities ordered Polish diplomat Andrzej Buczak to leave the country. On the same day, U.S. Professor Terry Boesch was ordered to pack his bags with his two young daughters. Boesch had been teaching international law and business at Belarus State University after moving to the Eastern European country in 2003 (see article).

"The internal situation in Belarus is worrying for President Lukashenko and he's looking for enemies," Polish Foreign Affairs Minister Adam Rotfeld told Polish radio following the expulsions. Belarus President Aleksander Lukashenko, who U.S. Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice called 'Europe's last dictator', has faced increasing criticism from EU member Poland.

Poland's latest diplomatic spat with Minsk arose over government pressure on Belarus' Union of Poles. Despite Warsaw's support for the Belarus' Union of Poles, if the diplomatic climate between Warsaw and Minsk worsens, it will be the 450,000 ethnic Poles in Belarus who suffer most, either directly or in terms of more difficult contacts with Poland. Warsaw has until now not supported imposing EU trade sanctions on Belarus, via withdrawal of GSP status (see article).

Belarus' Foreign Ministry says the blame lies with Warsaw. "The recent actions taken by the Polish side prove that Poland has been pursuing a clear policy aimed at reducing Belarus-Polish relations," announced the Foreign Ministry press service on Monday. "The artificially deteriorated situation around 'The Union of Poles in Belarus' is only a part of the successive negative efforts made by the Polish side."

"In spite of the hysteria, which continues in Poland, the situation around this Belarus public association will be settled in line with the legislation of the Republic of Belarus. Attempts to exert outside influence on it will be considered as interference in the domestic affairs of a sovereign state. Actions of the Polish side prove either it does not realize its role of a new member of the European Union or show a baseless nature of its foreign policy," noted Belarus' Foreign Ministry.

 

 

 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the Bulgarian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Aug-2005 at 10:12
Good luck to Poland and the Belarussian democrats.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JiNanRen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Aug-2005 at 11:55
I remember reading somewhere that Lukashenko helds some ex-Soviet nuclear weapons, whether they were dismantle is a big question.
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