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Forum LockedSave Xingu peoples from Destruction!

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    Posted: 07-Jun-2009 at 13:53
A couple of Maps that show the Xingu valley and the Xingu indigenous park:
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
This map show the degree of preservation inside the Indigenous territory compared with the destruction of forest outside the area:
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-May-2009 at 13:19
More about dams in the Amazon and other places and how they impact indigenous peoples  lives:
 
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-May-2009 at 00:29
OK. I won't feed the troll anymore. Bye.

Edited by pinguin - 21-May-2009 at 00:30
"He who attempts to count the stars, not even knowing how to count the knots of the 'quipus'(counting string), ought to be held in derision."

Inca Pachacutec (1438-1471)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-May-2009 at 00:28
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Inform yourself better. You have no idea about Latin America. You better go to preach your Gospel of abortion to Africa. 
 
 
The need of contraceptives is still huge in parts of Latin America.


Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:


The weird thing is that many people in Europe preach in the way you do.
 
Everone is entitled to an opinion, wherever he/she lives.
 

Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:


Stop it, pretender. You are not modern because promote abortion. You have no idea about Latin America. All you have are prejudices about ourselves.

If fact, the sad fact is that Latin Americans know Europe better than you know us.
 
I think you are not able to determine that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-May-2009 at 00:09
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:


The need of contraceptives are huge in parts of Latin America too.
 


Inform yourself better. You have no idea about Latin America. You better go to preach your Gospel of abortion to Africa.


Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:


I was ironic. What I meant, if you didn´t understand it, is that some people in Latin America seem to reason in such a way.


The weird thing is that many people in Europe preach in the way you do.
 

Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:


In some matters, as in the matters of contraceptives and abortions they really seem to do that, otherwise they would have more modern and adequate thinking in those matters.


Stop it, pretender. You are not modern because promote abortion. You have no idea about Latin America. All you have are prejudices about ourselves.

If fact, the sad fact is that Latin Americans know Europe better than you know us.

So, better stay in your country, and stop fooling around with Brazil. Otherwise, go to fool around with China or Africa.





Edited by pinguin - 21-May-2009 at 00:11
"He who attempts to count the stars, not even knowing how to count the knots of the 'quipus'(counting string), ought to be held in derision."

Inca Pachacutec (1438-1471)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2009 at 23:42
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:


Go to preach your Gospel of abortion to Africa. They needed it more than Latin Americans.
 
The need of contraceptives are huge in parts of Latin America too.


Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:


So, you are for Infanticide as well. At least you are consecuent with your ideas.
 
I was ironic. What I meant, if you didn´t understand it, is that some people in Latin America seem to reason in such a way.
 

Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:


Do you really believe Latin Americans pay attention to the Catholic Church. That shows me clearly that you have no idea about the region, and that you better stay in Europe. Confused
 
In some matters, as in the matters of contraceptives and abortions they really seem to do that, otherwise they would have more modern and adequate thinking in those matters.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2009 at 23:33
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

So people shall just get a lot of children that noone takes care of and whose lives are going to be extremely miserable?


Go to preach your Gospel of abortion to Africa. They needed it more than Latin Americans.

Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:


And about infanticede. Now and then one learn about death squads in the slum of Brasil running round and shooting street children. many of the members of those death squads have been policemen. Maybe it is better to let children be born and then shoot them, much better than abort an embryo.


So, you are for Infanticide as well. At least you are consecuent with your ideas.
 
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:


But I can admit that I don´t think abortion is the best solution. The best solution is of cource to use contraceptives and don´t get pregnant at all.
But of course the catholic church are against contraceptives too. And then when there are to much people in the cities then it´s just to go out and invade the land of the indigenous peoples.


Do you really believe Latin Americans pay attention to the Catholic Church. That shows me clearly that you have no idea about the region, and that you better stay in Europe. Confused
"He who attempts to count the stars, not even knowing how to count the knots of the 'quipus'(counting string), ought to be held in derision."

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2009 at 22:41
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

  
So, if your gramma doesn't show brain activity you just take out the plug of the machine that keep breathing the old lady and throw the corpse away? When life start and where life ends? When a group of hippie activists decide? 
 
So people shall just get a lot of children that noone takes care of and whose lives are going to be extremely miserable? Raped women shall be forced to bore the babies of the rapists?
And about infanticede. Now and then one learn about death squads in the slum of Brasil running round and shooting street children. many of the members of those death squads have been policemen. Maybe it is better to let children be born and then shoot them, much better than abort an embryo.
 
But I can admit that I don´t think abortion is the best solution. The best solution is of cource to use contraceptives and don´t get pregnant at all.
But of course the catholic church are against contraceptives too. And then when there are to much people in the cities then it´s just to go out and invade the land of the indigenous peoples.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2009 at 22:23
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

...If you are not born than you cannot die.
 
So, if your gramma doesn't show brain activity you just take out the plug of the machine that keep breathing the old lady and throw the corpse away? When life start and where life ends? When a group of hippie activists decide?
 
Close the zipper. Hurry up.
 
There is a old Spanish saying that say: "Cura Gatica:  predica pero no practica". Unfortunatelly it is not possible to translate but is something like this: The priest called Elf preach but doesn't pracise it himself.
 
 


Edited by pinguin - 20-May-2009 at 22:28
"He who attempts to count the stars, not even knowing how to count the knots of the 'quipus'(counting string), ought to be held in derision."

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2009 at 22:21
Well, sometines what exist is involution, rather than evolution.
"He who attempts to count the stars, not even knowing how to count the knots of the 'quipus'(counting string), ought to be held in derision."

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2009 at 22:14
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

 
"Mas sabe el diablo por anciano que por diablo"
 
"The devil knows more because he's ancient than because he's the devil."
 
So there have been no evolution of human thought from the time of Hippocrates to now?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2009 at 22:11
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

 
Gee, Carcharodon, I did not know that Hypocrates condemned abortion because it was a
superstition emanating from the church?
 
Hippocrates was a product of his time, even more ancient than the church.
 
There's an old Spanish maxim you should keep in mind Carch:
 
"Mas sabe el diablo por anciano que por diablo"
 
"The devil knows more because he's ancient than because he's the devil."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2009 at 22:08
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

So if somebody is going to suffer it is better to be dead? Would you unplug your gramma from the machine yourself?
 
If you are not born than you cannot die.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2009 at 21:57
So if somebody is going to suffer it is better to be dead? Would you unplug your gramma from the machine yourself?

Edited by pinguin - 20-May-2009 at 21:57
"He who attempts to count the stars, not even knowing how to count the knots of the 'quipus'(counting string), ought to be held in derision."

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2009 at 21:41
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

If you think that way, why don't let Indians continue killing theirs babies.
After all, you stated your own supersticion in the above paragraph, that I remarked LOL.
 
 
As I stated better take care of the born children and give them what they need in life
 than crying over embryos.
 
In Latin america there are too many abandoned children in the streets that noone cares about,
but embryos many people cry over.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2009 at 21:41
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

Hey folks, the theme of this history forum is "Empires" and within the general consensus of modern diplomacy and precepts of the United Nations, non-intervention in the internal affairs of duly constituted states is a sine qua non. Yes, there are fancy phrases such as the old Wilsonian "self-determination of peoples" but, in the real world the clash of social and economic interests raise many phantoms. Given this Media driven age, many an advocacy group appoints itself the guardians against their particular devils regardless of whether there are in place political mechanism addressing abuses. Often, these critics adopt patronizing attitudes and shape evil stereotypes or proclaim catastrophe for personal profit. In many ways, most modern advocacy groups generate "cash cows" on whose teats feed a myriad of professionals who shape lucrative professions on the backs of the helpless. Let us call them secular missionaries embarked upon international "conversion". Many, have other political objectives as well and the present discussion provides an excellent example of convergence between ecologists, global warming fanatics, and social scientists, who believe their notions are to come before the immediate problems faced by a larger society. In terms of European intellectuals this phenomenon is hardly new since that continent has a long history of knowing "what's best" for everyone else.
 
In the context of economic and social problems facing the Brazilian government (and here we are not confronting some out-of-the-way hell hole), one must keep in mind that we are addressing a nation with an estimated 200 million people. Metropolitan Sao Paulo has more people within its bounds than all of Sweden combined! Since the 1950s, Brazilians have clearly understood that the social and economic integrity of their nation depends entirely upon the proper development of all their resources. But, suddenly, they are now confronting groups that in many ways wish to turn two-thirds of their national territory into some form of wilderness preserve! Toward that end these gropus latch onto all type of exaggerations and reach fro historical stereotypes suitable for whatever campaign they mount for the moment. Sorry folks, but the protection of isolated Amerinds does pre-date the appearance of both Sting and Bono on the world stage and the maintenance of ecological balance concerned Brazilians long before people croaked about Rain Forests and Carbon sinks. One need only peruse the pages of the many reports by scientists at the Instituto Brasileiro de Geografia e Estadistica going back to the 1930s to grasp this fact. Nevertheless, many European and American "intellectuals" find it difficult to recognize their own paternalistic hubris when discussing Brazil. Further, out of ignorance they coflate entirely different situations and project horror stories of exploitation premised upon isolated Amerinds and others with long histories of contact and aculturation.
 
These new advocates of the infamous 19th century Amerindian "reservations" in North America--or modern day life upon these tracts within the United States--have no real understanding of what they are wishing for...
 
Absolutely agree. You have been very clear and absolutely precise.
 
By the way, even such a small country as my own, Chile, has a capital city with as much people like the whole Sweeden.
"He who attempts to count the stars, not even knowing how to count the knots of the 'quipus'(counting string), ought to be held in derision."

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2009 at 21:37
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

...
As stated, fetuses is a part of the womans body, if she want to keep it or not is up to her, not for
others to descide based upon superstition emanating from the church.
 
If you think that way, why don't let Indians continue killing theirs babies?
From your comment, it is very clear to me that you have not much worthly to teach.
After all, you stated your own supersticion in the above paragraph, that I remarked LOL.
 
Keep the zipper close. Or, as the Spanish sayings goes: flies don't enter in closed mouths. Or, by the mouth the fish dies. 
 


Edited by pinguin - 20-May-2009 at 21:38
"He who attempts to count the stars, not even knowing how to count the knots of the 'quipus'(counting string), ought to be held in derision."

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2009 at 21:36
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

 
Gee, Carcharodon, I did not know that Hypocrates condemned abortion because it was a
superstition emanating from the church?
 
Hippocrates was a product of his time, even more ancient than the church.

 

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Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

Originally posted by pinguin<SPAN style=FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-ansi-: EN-GB; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-fareast-: SV; mso-bidi-: AR-SA lang=EN-GB><NOBR> 
<DIV><NOBR>You don't see your inconsistencies, do you? You are like those countries that talk about freedom and invade others. Or talk and human rights and that still have death penalty in place. Or those others that talk about protection of the children in Africa and promote eutanasia.<OBR></DIV>
<DIV><NOBR>Or those others that feed the poors children of Africa and promote abortion at home. Or those that talk about environment and kill whales. Or those that talk about humanism and trade with radioactive waste!<OBR></DIV>
<DIV><NOBR>Nope Sir. If you wish to preach morals you should check it out your zipper <strong>IS</strong> close.<OBR></DIV></SPAN><SPAN style=mso-ansi-: EN-GB lang=EN-GB><FONT size=3><FONT face=Times New Roman><NOBR>
<DIV><OBR></FONT></FONT></SPAN><NOBR><OBR> </td></tr></table> <OBR></DIV>
<DIV><NOBR><OBR> </DIV>
<DIV><NOBR>As stated, fetuses is a part of the womans body, if she want to keep it or not is up to her, not for <OBR></DIV>
<DIV><NOBR>others to descide based upon superstition emanating from the church.[/QUOTE pinguin
You don't see your inconsistencies, do you? You are like those countries that talk about freedom and invade others. Or talk and human rights and that still have death penalty in place. Or those others that talk about protection of the children in Africa and promote eutanasia.
Or those others that feed the poors children of Africa and promote abortion at home. Or those that talk about environment and kill whales. Or those that talk about humanism and trade with radioactive waste!
Nope Sir. If you wish to preach morals you should check it out your zipper IS close.
 
 
As stated, fetuses is a part of the womans body, if she want to keep it or not is up to her, not for
others to descide based upon superstition emanating from the church.[/QUOTE wrote:

 
Gee, Carcharodon, I did not know that Hypocrates condemned abortion because it was a superstition emanating from the church?
 
Gee, Carcharodon, I did not know that Hypocrates condemned abortion because it was a superstition emanating from the church?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2009 at 21:26
Originally posted by pinguin<SPAN lang=EN-GB style=FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-: EN-GB; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-fareast-: SV; mso-bidi-: AR-SA><NOBR>
<DIV><NOBR>You don't see your inconsistencies, do you? You are like those countries that talk about freedom and invade others. Or talk and human rights and that still have death penalty in place. Or those others that talk about protection of the children in Africa and promote eutanasia.<OBR></DIV>
<DIV><NOBR>Or those others that feed the poors children of Africa and promote abortion at home. Or those that talk about environment and kill whales. Or those that talk about humanism and trade with radioactive waste!<OBR></DIV>
<DIV><NOBR>Nope Sir. If you wish to preach morals you should check it out your zipper <strong>IS</strong> close.<OBR></DIV></SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-GB style=mso-ansi-: EN-GB><FONT size=3><FONT face=Times New Roman><NOBR>
<DIV><OBR></FONT></FONT></SPAN><NOBR><OBR> [/QUOTE pinguin
You don't see your inconsistencies, do you? You are like those countries that talk about freedom and invade others. Or talk and human rights and that still have death penalty in place. Or those others that talk about protection of the children in Africa and promote eutanasia.
Or those others that feed the poors children of Africa and promote abortion at home. Or those that talk about environment and kill whales. Or those that talk about humanism and trade with radioactive waste!
Nope Sir. If you wish to preach morals you should check it out your zipper IS close.
 [/QUOTE wrote:

 
As stated, fetuses is a part of the womans body, if she want to keep it or not is up to her, not for
others to descide based upon superstition emanating from the church.
 
As stated, fetuses is a part of the womans body, if she want to keep it or not is up to her, not for
others to descide based upon superstition emanating from the church.
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