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Forum LockedModern Russian society

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote edgewaters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Modern Russian society
    Posted: 30-Jan-2009 at 19:32
Originally posted by Sarmat Sarmat wrote:

The violence in Kandopoga happened after several Russian teenagers were virtually cut to pieces by Chechen gangs and the Russian police failed to do anything (the gangs confused those innocent guys with someone else).
 
 
The violence in Krasnodar Krai happened after many instances of brutal rape of local children by Meschetian men.
 
Sometimes, the ignorance and falsification of the news regarding Russia that is so prevalent in the Western press goes too far.


The question of who started it aside, this is hardly a picture of "almost absent" ethnic tension! Riots, people cut to pieces, brutal rape, etc. Not exactly my idea of social harmony! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roberts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jan-2009 at 11:14
Originally posted by Bulldog Bulldog wrote:

Is there an illegal immigrantion problem in Russia? where do most these people come from.

Azerbaijan, Armenia, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan and other Central Asian nations.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jan-2009 at 00:46
Is there an illegal immigrantion problem in Russia? where do most these people come from.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calvo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2009 at 07:56
One thing is for government forces to tackle illegal immigration and ethnic gangs; another thing is beating up on random individuals just because they belong to the same nationality as those who commit crimes; which can never be justified under any conditions.
 
In Spain, illegal immigration is a prime concern of most of the population; and a main objective of the government is to control the frontiers; yet violence against immigrants, both physically and verbally, is universally condemned.
 
It is true that skinheads tend to be the most cowardly people on earth for the fact that they pick on the defenceless foreign students or migrant workers; but rarely have the balls to stand up to ethnic mobsters.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2009 at 19:00
Many governments face the same problems as the Russian one and even more difficult problems including for example the governments of Belarus, Ukraine or Moldova etc. which have even tougher socio-economic situation to handle.  Yet, students from Asia and Africa feel safe there.
 
And, this in fact, creates a very serious problem for the image of Russia abroad. And Russia is even losing money because of this since many students would prefer to go somewhere else but not Russia.
 
And I don't really know what the Russian government thinks but to continue to neglect this problem is a crime in my opinion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Arekushii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2009 at 18:45
if you are talking about large cities then it's unavoidable for such things to happen, people are highly conservative in those cities, more than that, racism is too wide-spread in eastern europe, but I do think that Caucasians and Asians who are in Russian are mainly illegal immigrants, therefore they're out of topic (at least I presume so..)
Students as targets? Why not?.. I'm not for such actions, if that's a legal immigrant, with all documents in shape and order, and if he or she works legally, then why the hell should normal people beat them? nazis? skinheads? show me a country where they don't exist, surely it's a problem, but I feel that Russian government has more things to handle, social tensions arise in societies where economical position is unequal, so I presume, to destroy its roots, Russian government has to reinforce and to rearrange its social politics inside Russia.
Really sorry for my language, thought you meant the illegal ones..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2009 at 14:51
Well. Unfortunately, I have to disagree with Arekushii. Foreigners are targeted by the racist attacks, mainly in Moscow, S.Peterburg and some other cities like Voronezh.
Another unfortunate thing is that most of the Russian people are not aware of this terrible situation, because they never felt themselves what is like to be a student of color in Moscow. I, however, do have Asian friends who study in Moscow and according to them, most of the time they spend at the dorm because they are afraid to go out. Most of the foreign students' dorms in fact have the rules that prohibit the students to go outside after certain time in the evening.
Another important thing that in the overwhelming majority of cases victims of the violent attacks are helpless foreign students but not ethnic gangs and mobsters. As a rule, skinheads do not risk their lifes to mess with ethnic organize crime.
All these makes me really feel bad about my country. And I explain this only by the carelessness of the authorities who don't pay attention to this phenomenon. The government needs to design a sound yourth policy in Russia. Most of the skinhead are just youngsters who literally have nothing to do in their spare time and view the attacks as a kind of "fun." Dead
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2009 at 14:36
Caucasio-Asian???
 
Last time I checked the most of the Caucasus was Russian territory and they are Russian citizens, how the hell did they become illegal in their own country?
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2009 at 13:41
Originally posted by Arekushii Arekushii wrote:

"The only crime that they have done is they look different from Whites" what the holy smokes is that?.. Most of them are in poverty, stealing things from others, mainly richer Russians and Asians is the problem, strong anti-immigrant tensions are too obvious, only in Moscow there are more than 500.000 Caucasio-Asian illegal immigrants who use crime as their source of life..
Al-Jassas if you strongly believe that those people are white and fluffy, please reconsider this idea, and try to understand that your words are nothing but a typical news' reports from some Western newspaper which is trying to beastify Russia..


Yes, illegal immigrants will always be troublesome since these people have nothing to lose, and as immigration usually occurs in waves it's essential to tackle the problem early on before it becomes too large. Random mob killings however are not the way to go, it's up to the civil authorities to make sure these people are systematically removed.

You are right about Western newspapers. If someone lets out a fart in Moscow the headlines read "Russian nuclear strike imminent", while a similar incident in the West will be treated as a trifle.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Arekushii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2009 at 13:28
"The only crime that they have done is they look different from Whites" what the holy smokes is that?.. Most of them are in poverty, stealing things from others, mainly richer Russians and Asians is the problem, strong anti-immigrant tensions are too obvious, only in Moscow there are more than 500.000 Caucasio-Asian illegal immigrants who use crime as their source of life..
Al-Jassas if you strongly believe that those people are white and fluffy, please reconsider this idea, and try to understand that your words are nothing but a typical news' reports from some Western newspaper which is trying to beastify Russia..


Edited by Arekushii - 26-Jan-2009 at 13:29
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2009 at 05:38
Well if you see no problem in extrajudicial murder of people whos only crime is tht look different and speak different then you are a racist just like the neo-Nazis I was talking about.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Arekushii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jan-2009 at 18:52
If those foreigners are illegal immigrants who murder others and/or steal valuable belongings, then I'd ignore them too.
Not knowing real facts and real situation gives a wonderful joy of posting bullcrap.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jan-2009 at 18:02
When elected officials in the biggest city of the country see no problem in murdering foreigners, that is a problem.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Arekushii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jan-2009 at 14:02
As it was stated above, evil things do happen in Russia, but the major part of evil "deeds" goes to people who want to make Russia for Russians and no one else, the thing is, that, that group of people is rather small in their ammount while Western media makes that group a SUPER SIZED SUPER NEO-NAZI party which is going to destroy all non-Russians.
Basically people who come to Russia from Central Asia and/or Caucasus are known for their temper (quite cocky and aggressive, and it's not a generalisation) which worsens this situation making it very intense indeed, moreover these migrants are quite crime-related subjects.. But it doesn't mean that racism is on the loose in Russia, in a country so big like it, problems related with minorities are inevitable. But as we know there are alot more problems besides racism, and one of them, which warms up this situation even more, is Russia's corruption and beauracracy, and this so called Economic crisis (more like a crisis in our heads though..)
To sum up everything, racism is indeed troublesome, but not to the point when West tries to make this country full of blood-thirsty beasties



Edited by Arekushii - 24-Jan-2009 at 14:04
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jan-2009 at 09:46
ataman, the prices are for Samara, which is a large, but still a provincial and not too rich city.

After the recent ruble devaluation the USD prices should be divided by approximately 1.3 :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ataman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jan-2009 at 15:53
Originally posted by mind mind wrote:


Yes, but it's still $700, after all, and all other prices are slowly, but surely climb up to the European level. Food is relatively cheap, like bread is around ¢75 for a 0.5kg loaf, milk is $1.4 for a litre, butter is $1.3 for 200g, cheese is from $8 to $15 for 1kg, raw meat is about $10 for 1kg, and so on.
 
I am shocked. Your food is really expensive. Are these prices from Moscow or somewhere from the provinces?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Inari Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jan-2009 at 13:13

I saw you talking about Nazism.  Some people say that its a terrible in Russia (or smth like that).

So I only want to correct them cause when they say "Russia" they mean only region(city/district) they live,  but Russia is large country and you'll find it parts quite different.

As I can say I've seen no Nazi ("Skin Heads") in Moscow for at least 5-7 years.

Post Scriptum : Sorry for my English. :)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Dec-2008 at 16:06
It was a different beast, indeed, but after the westernisation it may be considered European in all things significant.

Hitler's low opinion of the Russians I suspect had more to do with politics than race, as the Russians have a higher percentage of people fulfilling the Nazi's physical ideals than the Germans.

http://strangemaps.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/blond_hair_map1.jpg

You will also notice that modern Russian nationalists define the Russian people based on physical ideals that are identical to those of the Nazis.
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þeod-cyninga, þrym gefrunon,
hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calvo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Dec-2008 at 14:40
The rise of Nazism in Russia demonstrates how absurd nationalism can be; and that racism and nationalism is purely in the mind.
 
Logically, the Russians are one of the last people on Earth to embrace Nazi ideology, who embraced the superiority of pure white Aryan Nordics and European culture.
 
The Russian nation is one who had inherited a great deal from Asiatic nations, both culturally, politically, and genetically. Hitler even considered the Slavs as an inferior nation for this very reason.
There's even a saying that prior to Peter the Great's westernization movement, Russia was more of an Asian than a European nation for that culturally it had far more contacts with Turco-Tatar and Finno-Ugric peoples than with European nations.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Dec-2008 at 06:35
Originally posted by Al Jassas Al Jassas wrote:

Well the Russians at the sources above disagree. Plus the problem and murders happened in August and ended there. It was later that racist started agitating not against criminals but against every Caucassian in town.

As a matter of fact, the sources you have quoted give more or less the same story:
Quote diners in a local res-taurant provoked a massive fight by their offensive behavior; the fight was obviously a «criminal showdown» involving ethnic Chechen bandits; two people were killed and six seriously injured. This, and blatant inaction of the local police, caused massive protests and numerous, lasting for many days, arson attacks against the property of local residents of the Caucasus origin. There were at least 20 arson attacks in the city of Kondopoga and neigh-boring districts in the first week of September. By unofficial data, at least eight people whose appearance suggested their Caucasus origin were injured in the pogroms.

Quote What happened in the restaurant doesn't justify the unprovoked and indiscriminant rioting that happened 2 weeks later.

You make me blush :). I feel like I'm defending the nazis. I'm not. I'm not even saying that racism is not a problem in Russia. Unfortunately, it is. Moreover, it is a huge problem, people are killed in the nazi attacks. But the events in Kondopoga were not as simple as "evil nazis vs innocent citizens".
Quote
As I said, these people (ultra nationalists and racists) are still a minority but unfortunately the Russian government is doing nothing to stop them. One of their leaders (Zhirinovsky) in the Duma's top offices and this guy is really crazy. These racists publically boast with their actions and the problem is that the state is complicit. When racists blew up 8 migrants some years ago in Moscow the procecuter complained "there were too many foreigner".

With this I would mostly agree. Except that I'm not inclined to take Zhirinovsky seriously. I'm afraid I may be mistaking, but in my opinion he runs one of the most successful political businesses in the world. He sells the parliament seats and in exchange for the possibility to do so he votes (as a party, not as a person) as he's told.
Quote However, recently Putin made a statement that such things should be stopped.

He is the person I tend to trust least of all :). He said more than once that patriotism should be the national ideology.
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