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    Posted: 06-Mar-2009 at 16:54

Some of the Yuezhi formed the Kushan Empire and are thought to have been or were closely related to the Tocharians.  However, according to this page the Eastern Schythians could also have been the Yuezhi.

http://web.raex.com/~obsidian/Centasia3.html#Sakae

http://www.famouschinese.com/virtual/Yuezhi




Edited by Seko - 06-Mar-2009 at 17:00
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pebbles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Mar-2009 at 03:54
 
I wouldn't think so.Saka or Scythians were a seperate people,Yuezhi definitely not an offshoot.
 
 
note: 古代波斯人稱之為 Saka 塞克人 = ancient Persians referred those tribes as Saka.
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Mar-2009 at 16:45
Would that make them the Eastern Saka then?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pebbles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Mar-2009 at 11:37
 
 
Originally posted by Bulldog Bulldog wrote:

 
 
The use of Star and Crescent in the muslim world is a result of the Turks expansion and dominance.
 
 
 
They were the people Chinese referred to as " 月氏 = Yue Zhi ".
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mercury_Dawn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Sep-2008 at 17:28
I was told that it was a symbol of security for the early Arab tribes who would travel the desert by day, and park thier caravans at night, and socialize. The caravans offered security, and the moon was a symbol of not being insanely hot.

I suppose I'm wrong, I had only asked a common businessman. It sounded far more romantic though. They say the Star of David was a symbol of Venus.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carpathian Wolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2008 at 20:14
That's kind of an obvious statement. Water is wet, fire is hot etc etc. What Symbol isn't what we make it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2008 at 19:38
thats a perfect example symbols are what we make them, what we believe they are
I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carpathian Wolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2008 at 18:34

Yes but again Christians don't worship the "punishment method" but what it represents, the bridge between our world and God, redemption, salvation to the Faithful.

 
I think it was Saint John of Damascus who said (paraphrasing) "When the cross is shown I venerate it for it symbolizes the love of God to man kind, but when the boards are broken in two it means nothing to me and I burn it as wood."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2008 at 09:48
be4 that it was used to punish to worst kinds of criminals and still afterwards

the cruifixtion of Jesus Christ (pbuh) is just a exception

humans make symbols and believe in them so they can change the meaning of one



Edited by xi_tujue - 12-Aug-2008 at 09:50
I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carpathian Wolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2008 at 09:14
Originally posted by xi_tujue xi_tujue wrote:

same could be said for the crusifix imo
 
Not really. Christ was crusified but it isn't the pieces of wood which are venerated but the sacrifice and act of love.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2008 at 09:07
same could be said for the crusifix imo
I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carpathian Wolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2008 at 04:27
Alot of modern revisionists try to make Christianity (Orthodox from my perspective) as having adopted certain pagan elements into them but this is contrary to the theology and to history in which Christianity was quite staunchly against the pagan faiths. People site the dates of christmas and pascha being on traditional pagan holidays but this was done so that the Christians went to the Christian worship rather then the pagan. It was a move to replace not accomodate.
 
 
Anyway, I think the theory of it being a symbol of nobility in constantinople is the strongest so far.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Aug-2008 at 23:25

The cresent appears in Chistian art as well.  Some art depicting the the Virgin Mary (mother of Jesus) shows her standing over a cresent.  Some explanations say that this symbolizes Christianity's dominance over older pagan religions. Others say that the crescent is a pagan symbol for female divinity and was thus incorporated into Christian art to show the Virgin's special status.



Edited by Cryptic - 05-Aug-2008 at 23:29
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sparten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Aug-2008 at 21:16
The cresent was also used in Rome i believe.
The Germans also take vacations in Paris; especially during the periods they call "blitzkrieg".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jul-2008 at 00:51
The Star and Crescent has been used by various peoples since ancient times across vaste geographical areas.
 
The use of Star and Crescent in the muslim world is a result of the Turks expansion and dominance. The star and crescent had a spiritual/religous significance to the pre-muslim Turks, they kept using this emblem mainly due to tribal tamgas/flags ie the Kayi clan used the Crescent and the millitary. The marching bands used flag poles which were decorated by Crescent and moon, wolf heads, horsetails or Holy Qur'an boxes.
 
Then ofcourse there is the folklore, legends, myths which come with any symbol or emblems.
 
And then there are other nations which used the crescent and star as well.
 
In conclusion, the crescent and moon symbol has been used by many nations in the past, however, its popularity in the muslim world is mainly due to the Turks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carpathian Wolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jul-2008 at 19:35
"I am a muslim or a "follower of Mohammad". And I have absolutly no trouble with the symbol. "

And that's perfectly fine with me. :)
 
"Well "islamic" nations aren't only "followers of mohammad" they have cultural pasts aside from that of Arabic. Some of them have their own national symbols. You may call them paganic but they are national too. They are embraced by these nations for thousands of years."
 
I know but I generally got the impression it was frowned upon at least by the traditionalists.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jul-2008 at 15:15
Originally posted by Efraz Efraz wrote:

BTW I have to correct myself here.

All religions have a paganic past. These religions did not come from outer space, of course they all have connections with elder beliefs.
This is very true. You can find most symbols going further back than their current use with hints in their meaning still carrying on even if they do change over time. The moon carrys on with the Virgin Mary for instance in some iconograhy (AFAIK latin catholic). though instead of being on her head, its on her feet.

The Crescent and Star is quite interesting. I have read on the below source that it meant different things depending on which way the moon was facing in the symbol and this connects back to the dual nature of Ishtar/Astarte/Inanna (Shaushga ?). I used the same n one my two old posts (in the above  links ) but i would like to cross reference it

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In its role as the goddess of war and fertility it is associated with the Morning star. In its role as the divinity of sexual love it is associated with the Evening star.

www.symbols.com

from a better part of that website that goes into more detail
Quote
It was only when humans realized that the Morning star and the Evening star were the same planet that the pentagon, 28:23, and the four-year period could be linked to 41a:7.
    The Akkadians were the first to realize this. Inanna, the Sumerian queen of the heavens and the daughter of the moon for the Semitic Akkadians became the contradictory Ischtar. Still the queen of the heavens, Ischtar (Astarte) was the holy virgin but also "she who accomodates men", the goddess of battle and war, but also the goddess of beauty, peace and sex.
    Three were the highest divinities in the EuphratesTigris region. Their symbols can be seen in almost every ancient mythological representation. They are 25:16, the sun god; 20:7, the moon god; and 26:46, Inanna, Ischtar, Astarte.


www.symbols.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Efraz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jul-2008 at 13:29
BTW I have to correct myself here.

All religions have a paganic past. These religions did not come from outer space, of course they all have connections with elder beliefs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Efraz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jul-2008 at 13:23
Well "islamic" nations aren't only "followers of mohammad" they have cultural pasts aside from that of Arabic. Some of them have their own national symbols. You may call them paganic but they are national too. They are embraced by these nations for thousands of years.

Like this symbol. Like Turks, Iranians' other symbols... they have many symbols may be regarded as "paganic" and we have no problem with.

Being a "follower of Mohammad" doesn't make you an Arab.

And to the star and crescent. Let me give a couple of symbolic infos.

Crescent: It's the symbol of moon goddeses which are a connected with mother goddeses and fertility deities. Which is also the symbol of the cult of women. In Greek, Hittitian and Mesopotamian Mythologies.

Star: It's also a symbol for a specific type of goddesses. Ishtar for example. Which is the very equivalent of Aphrodite and all love and war goddesses. Ishtar literally means "star"

I think "Crescent and Star" has a pagan past which is connected to the matriarchal culture. Which is a fine thing :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sparten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jul-2008 at 06:35
I am a muslim or a "follower of Mohammad". And I have absolutly no trouble with the symbol.
The Germans also take vacations in Paris; especially during the periods they call "blitzkrieg".
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