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    Posted: 22-Oct-2006 at 09:23
 -First off I just want to explain what atheism is:

Atheism is the disbelief in a higher being or purpose, that is all. An atheist can believe in an afterlife or reincarnation, just not that these events are purpotrated by a higher being or purpose. So, if you don't believe in a higher beign or purpose then you are an atheist, any other views you might have are irrelevant to atheism. I'm just saying this because many people think that there's a whole philosophy behind atheism, but there isn't. Being for or against abortion is a political choice, not an atheist doctrine.

 -Now, I do not believe in an afterlife but I will not attempt to justify this view because you cannot prove a negative. Let me explain why I feel this way; things that are finite hold greater value and aiming for an afterlife in heaven makes you ignore the world you live in, sometimes to the brink of destroying it as with fundamentalists.

 -Now, another piece of information you should know is that my view on the universe is two-fold, one all-encompassing and one life encompassing. The all-encompassing view is that the universe was created by chance and everything in it and that everything is irrelevant. There is no purpose, all is futile. The life-encompassing view is based on the instincts and basic drives of life. I hold life as precious because I don't want to be killed, which is a natural instinct. Morals, good and evil, goals, all of this is irrelevant in the all-encompassing view, they are human constructs, but as they are our constructs we should live with them. If nothing matters then it doesn't matter if I try to make my stay here on earth as comfortable as possible., and so I do.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
-- Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Timotheus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Oct-2006 at 00:15
That's a very Platonist attitude.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arch.buff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Oct-2006 at 20:21
I like that quote. Wish I would have heard it before, it would probably be in my sig right now.Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote King Kang of Mu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Oct-2006 at 04:04
"We are not human-beings having spiritual experience, but spiritual-beings having human experience."   -Wayne Dyer 
I believe I am a reflection, like the moon on water. When you see me, and I try to be a good man, you see yourself.
- from 'Kundun'

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Timotheus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Oct-2006 at 00:08
Pfft. You can't prove an afterlife, it's metaphysical. But just because it's metaphysical doesn't mean it's any less present. Naturally, you wouldn't believe me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ponce de Leon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Oct-2006 at 22:54
Originally posted by Tobodai Tobodai wrote:

Originally posted by MixcoatlToltecahtecuhtli MixcoatlToltecahtecuhtli wrote:

Originally posted by Tobodai Tobodai wrote:

no it does not exist, but if it did I would much rather go to the hell version as all the cool people are there I wouldnt wan t to go to heaven and hang oout with all the boring people and goody two shoes.
That's a great way to piss off fundis: "so only [insert random sect here]ers go to heaven? In that case I'd rather go to hell than going to a heaven full of people like you."


exactly, captain Zap Brannagan


    Futurama is such a great show. sorry everybody that was a little off topic. I think it would be cool if there was an afterlife. I can image there would be blue sky surrounding you with the warm sun shinging on you with extremely comfortable white robes in your person, and soft clouds under your feet. And with all that stuff there is a pool table. yea...all that stuff and a pool table would make heaven just so heavenly
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fogger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Oct-2006 at 22:18
well scientifically there is no afterlife....

thats what you really must know...

but since people can't hold
on to the fact that their loved ones are
gone....

they create an afterlife stuff....

why cant they just all accept death.....

they create an afterlife to lie
to themselves and comfort themselves
more but in reality or in the subconcoius
their mind know that the ones they
cherised is gone foreever....

cause people like to lie to themselves....

which sux....
~~reality is what you think it to be, if you believe, you would insist its real, whereas, in fact, its not~~
~~if you look deep inside yourself, all you will get is a hollow empty space and no soul~~
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arch.buff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Dec-2005 at 07:50
I guess it all comes down to our beliefs and our interpretation of life. To me your above post seems too frivolous for it to be human life, again just based on my beliefs......which are different than yours.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Herodotus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Dec-2005 at 14:14
Originally posted by arch.buff arch.buff wrote:

-Ok, kinda off the wall.....but you might have to explain what you mean by "be" or are you simply saying that you dont know what "be" means. If we are here for no other purpose than to live then we must reproduce. If were here to "be" and life wasnt important and reproduction wasnt of any significance then would we still be here today? One might think the concept of just "being" might get us extinct seeing as how the continuation(reproduction) of our existance isnt of any importance. 

You are confusing utility and meaning. An axe is used to cut wood, but the meaning of it's existance is not to cut wood; except in that its human manufacturer gave it existance for the purpose of cutting wood. We humans can reproduce, and do, and need to if we are to survive as a species. However, that does not mean that our purpose, the meaning of our lives, is to reproduce. For their to be a purpose, there has to be intent, and for there to be intent, their has to be some absolute being to have had said intent in creating us. No, the rational man says, random natural forces happened to given rise to humanity, which happens to have certain physical charicteristics which allow it to replicate itself. Evolution had no intention. Just because we can reproduce does not mean it is our mission to do so. Nature is not a master with desires for us to survive, nor do anything else, which we must satisfy. When I say "be", I mean that in the simplest sense of the word. There is no meaning in life, in the sense that people ask the question, we simply exist, we be. When I say the meaning of life is to live, I mean that in the loosest sense of the word: do what you please. Obey the law and live a boring life, don't obey the law, kill yourself, become an artist, do whatever it is that you will: in fact, you can't not.

"Dieu est un comdien jouant une assistance trop effraye de rire."
"God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh."
-Francois Marie Arouet, Voltaire

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Nov-2005 at 11:54

I'm a athiest I guess. I wish I could believe in a after life but to me that seems to easy and simple. I believe that our purpose, if thats what you want to call it is to reproduce, just because we evolved to have a powerful intelligence compared to other animals doesn't make us any better besides being higher on the food chain in some senses.

Everything we live by and klnow is basicly artificial in a sense, I mean everything we follow law, religion, morals, etc... it's all the product of man. Other animals live life the way it's ment, if there is a afterlife I'd think they'd be more deserving of it then humans. All we did is screwed up the world and kill and take lands from other creatures, yet in our own minds we see ourselves as honest living beings, but if you really think about it and are willing to criticize the human race as a whole and compare it with how everything else lives, you'll see we aren't apart of this world we just make it the way we want.

I'd like to believe that as a human and apart of the characteristics being human is to find my soul mate and raise a family. When I have children I get to teach them the rights and wrongs, how to live in our world and how to enjoy it. To me thats the purpose of life, raising a family and watching them grow to adults and hopefully being in the image you hoped for makes everything worth while in life. I may be young now and I may have to wait a couple more years before I start my family, but I look forward to it.

All that being said, I accept being human, can't change the way we run this world and wouldn't if I could, it's life, just alittle altered by us.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Nov-2005 at 09:52

We know that we are - at least I know that I am.

All else is speculation.

There may be a cause, there may be a reason. But there is no need for either, other than to satisfy our desire for self-importance.

 

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Never believe anything until it has been officially denied - Sir Humphrey Appleby, 1984.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arch.buff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Nov-2005 at 02:19
Originally posted by Herodotus Herodotus wrote:

[QUOTE=arch.buff]Well, im a christian so my answer should mirror that. in short, i do believe there is a afterlife and that when we die we will either go to heaven or hell, simple as that. The one thing I dont get about atheists is that they believe we are here on Earth for no other reason then to reproduce? sounds a lil too simple for me, but maybe some atheists out there can elaborate. So basically to non-believers our lives are as imporatnt as a cow we slaughter to make McDonalds hamburgers out of?? seeing as from their point of you view we both dont have souls and are simply here to reproduce.  

The fact that we can reproduce does not mean that our mission is to do so. The notion that we are here for a purpose is based on the concept that there is some higher power that placed us here, whether it is an onipotent being, fate, or "the universe". Disregard that. We are here to be; I don't mean to live, but simply to be, whatever that state of is-ness is.

 

-Ok, kinda off the wall.....but you might have to explain what you mean by "be" or are you simply saying that you dont know what "be" means. If we are here for no other purpose than to live then we must reproduce. If were here to "be" and life wasnt important and reproduction wasnt of any significance then would we still be here today? One might think the concept of just "being" might get us extinct seeing as how the continuation(reproduction) of our existance isnt of any importance. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Nov-2005 at 13:39
Originally posted by honeybee honeybee wrote:

 

This is one of the few religion that view death as natural, if not desirable.


Most ancient religions didn't believe in an afterlife, at least no clear prospect of a better afterlife as that promised by Near Eastern religions (Zoroastrism, late Judaism, Christianism, Islam). You died and your soul went to Hades or something of the like. Hades was a vague place, kind of a limbo: not paradise nor hell. In other cases, the souls of the ancestors continued living somhow in the imaginary of the descendants (psychological transposition) but the belief on afterlife was then much more diffuse and unclear.

Quote

The typical Daoist philosopher tells you, how do you know death is worse than life? How do you know the dead people are afraid to be alive?



According to some astrologists, among who the belief on reincarnation is widespread, some people ("Plutonian" type) do not want to live again but I have been unable to confirm such theory myself.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Herodotus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Nov-2005 at 11:55

Originally posted by arch.buff arch.buff wrote:

Well, im a christian so my answer should mirror that. in short, i do believe there is a afterlife and that when we die we will either go to heaven or hell, simple as that. The one thing I dont get about atheists is that they believe we are here on Earth for no other reason then to reproduce? sounds a lil too simple for me, but maybe some atheists out there can elaborate. So basically to non-believers our lives are as imporatnt as a cow we slaughter to make McDonalds hamburgers out of?? seeing as from their point of you view we both dont have souls and are simply here to reproduce.  

The fact that we can reproduce does not mean that our mission is to do so. The notion that we are here for a purpose is based on the concept that there is some higher power that placed us here, whether it is an onipotent being, fate, or "the universe". Disregard that. We are here to be; I don't mean to live, but simply to be, whatever that state of is-ness is.

Originally posted by Vamun Tianshu Vamun Tianshu wrote:

I am a paranormalist.I believe we are born to serve ourselves,and not serve some fictional higher being,or kings,or queens or prophets.We are here because we are here,either to create,destroy,desecrate,decimate,obliterate,whatever.And because I am considered by many to be a Animal Rights Radicalist,I consider Animal Lives to be as important as Human Lives,since they are alive,and we are alive,and I don't think we are superior.

Assuming that your alive, which I think you must be to have written this post, you must eat. Assuming you a human, again, you must be to have written this post, you must eat organic matter. We humans cannot eat rocks. So, here is the contradiction in your philosophy. You think it is wrong to eat animals because they, like we humans, are alive. However, as I have proven, you must eat living things, plants most likely. You are a hypocrite.

You said earlier that you think the meaning of life is to be; I agree. You said that we humans might destory, decimate, create, etc., it dosen't matter. Why then does that power of obliteration stop at the cow? Again, there is a contradiction; if we are alive for no purpose but to be, then why do you demand that we live for the interests of the cows? That is no different than living to satisfy some eternal being.

Adressed to everyone:

This philosophy I have attempted to explain does not preclude hope, it does not render everything futile. Rather, it removes the truly futile items. What is more meaningful than living? Concentrate on that. f**k the universe, you're it. Live. "No eternal reward will forgive us for wasting the dawn." So don't.



Edited by Herodotus
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote honeybee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Nov-2005 at 12:41

Daoist wisdom:

"Empty the self completely;
Embrace perfect peace.
The myriad things will rise and move;
I watch it return to rest.
All the flourishing things
Will return to their source.

This return is peaceful;
being peaceful means life returns,
An eternal decay and renewal.
knowing this is enlightenment,
Ignorant of this brings misery.

Who accepts nature's flow becomes all-cherishing;
Being all-cherishing he becomes impartial;
Being impartial he becomes magnanimous;
Being magnanimous he becomes natural;
Being natural he becomes one with the Way;
Being one with the Way he becomes eternal:
Though his body will decay, the Way will not."

 

This is one of the few religion that view death as natural, if not desirable. The typical Daoist philosopher tells you, how do you know death is worse than life? How do you know the dead people are afraid to be alive?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Nov-2005 at 04:51
Originally posted by Quetzalcoatl Quetzalcoatl wrote:

Originally posted by Mangudai Mangudai wrote:

To me life after death is a matter of course. According to physics, energy can't be destroyed. So how could our life-energy be destroyed and cease to exist just because our bodies die? No to me, there are plenty of evidence that the soul lives on in some form or another

 

Yet no man enters the same river twice, nor a river is entered twice by the same person; which means you aren't the same person that you were just a second ago and you are radically different from the baby you once were. The atoms of a body only belong to that particular body for short time; the body should be viewed at as fluid rather than a solid>This means you've already died many times unbeknown to you--all that is left is the memories, yet even that can be destroyed or altered.



Excellent observation, Quetzacoatl. It's truly a paradox worrying about afterlife when we just can barely recall our first years for instance. Even is something would survive the lack of memory/conscience makes that something a diferent thing from what I used to be, becoming therefore another being.

Also, on Mangudai's negentropist comment: when you die worms, funghi or other "cleaners" get your energy. Some dissipates as heat, of course.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Quetzalcoatl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Nov-2005 at 02:50

Originally posted by Mangudai Mangudai wrote:

To me life after death is a matter of course. According to physics, energy can't be destroyed. So how could our life-energy be destroyed and cease to exist just because our bodies die? No to me, there are plenty of evidence that the soul lives on in some form or another

 

Yet no man enters the same river twice, nor a river is entered twice by the same person; which means you aren't the same person that you were just a second ago and you are radically different from the baby you once were. The atoms of a body only belong to that particular body for short time; the body should be viewed at as fluid rather than a solid>This means you've already died many times unbeknown to you--all that is left is the memories, yet even that can be destroyed or altered.

 

So when you say you believe in the afterlife, what do you people expect to survive?

 



Edited by Quetzalcoatl
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ArmenianSurvival Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Nov-2005 at 02:09
I think belief in the afterlife is the only way humans have to deal with the disbelief that comes with the pain of death. In most societies, death is looked upon in a negative way. I dont believe that death is a negative thing, because it is part of life. When someone i know dies (like my grandmother a couple of years ago), i know that they are gone forever and I will never see them again. I enjoyed our moments and her memory will live with me, but thats about it. Sorry to break it to you guys, but death is just as beautiful as birth and life; it is the completion of our temoporary journey in this reality.

It would be nice to have an afterlife though. Whether there is one or not, or whether we will simply be reincarnated, i dont know. Im not ruling out the possibility, i just wouldnt bet on it.


Edited by ArmenianSurvival
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Infidel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Nov-2005 at 18:01
Ok, let me rephrase it then. It is much more comforting and rewarding to me that there's life after death. God gives the answer to the mystery of existence.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mixcoatl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Nov-2005 at 13:03
Originally posted by Infidel Infidel wrote:

And I can tell you it is a much more comforting and rewarding thought than just believing that you cease to exist as your bodies dies.

not necessarily. I think it's more comforting to believe that you cease to exist when you die than being afraid you won't go to heaven but to hell.
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