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Forum LockedThe History of Bulgaria

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    Posted: 08-Mar-2008 at 15:08
I will give you a short presentation of my country and it's history.This is my first post so dont be so critic :P
Part One
There are a lot of opinions about the proto - bulgarians and there origin but recent researches found out that they came in Europe from their first motherland Pamir.Proto - Bulgarians were really well advanced nation.They got calendar according to the moon(Moon Calendar) and also the most important thing which characterices mostly the development of the tribe - Statehood.First rulers of the earliest bulgarian kingdom were the Dulo khlan who participate even in our later cultural and political development(The founder of Danube Bulgarian - Khan Asparuh;Khan Tervel,Khan Krum,Khan Omurtag,then for thousand years the connection is lost but in 1185,tzar Asen and his brothers Petar and Ioan(Ivan or Kaloyan) are also from this family.In the beging of the 2nd-3rd century AD a vast movement of peopleS put the beging of the so called Great migration of peoples.The proto-bulgarians also participate in this migration and settled around the Kavkaz mnt.In the period between 3-6 century the proto-bulgarians were parts of defferent alliances,the strongest of which was the Atila's one.

It will be continued...


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ThousandS of years,my mistake sorry.
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So were Bulgarians originally Turkic?

Edited by kafkas - 11-Mar-2008 at 23:24
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Hello, Kafkas!
I will try to explane to you who are the bulgarians. The bulgarians are a descendent of the tocharians, which is eastern branch of the cimmerians (which is an eastern branch ot the thracians). About 1800 B.C. they migrated from the Circumpontean area (the region around the Black Sea, in this case-northern part of the sea) to the Near East, especially Nothern Messopotamia and the Armenian Plateau, where they became the nobble class of the Huritti people (Haru/Huri/Naharina, later - Mitanni Kingdom). Middleages arabian chronist Al-Hamidani (Al-Chamdani), who was writing in XI-XII century A.D. wrote: "the nobble class of the huritti is called "Balchari/Balkhari". ", which means "bulgarians" in our own language. I have no idea how he knows about that so later. In fact, these people was completed of many tribes, because one of these tribes called "gutei" ("kutii" in assirian and bulgarian transcribtion) was in this region long time before that and even they destroyed the mighty Acadian Empire about 2200 B.C. This tribe (the "kutii", or "kut-rig-guri"/"kut-ur-guri"/kut-ragi") was one of the bulgarian tribes in 5th-8th century A.D. together with the another one tribe the "utii" ("ut-rig-guri"/"ut-ur-guri") and the many others, like the nobble "onno-gund-uri", also "ono-guri", "vahan-duri" and etc. The Khazarian khagan Josef wrotes: that "...they (the "onno-gond-uri"-ans) was so many, as the sand in the sea..." A lot of sources considering this people to the huns. Procopius from Cesarea wrotes in 5th-6th century A.D.: "In the ancient times the huns "kutriguri" and "utiguri" was known as cimmerians, and they lived in the lands near to Babylonia. Once, when they was hunted as ussual, they saw a doe and followed it cross the strait called Meotida...". The medieval hungarian "Chronical of Kheszai" wrotes almost the same: "In the ancient times In the lands of Evilat near to Babylonia, lives a giant Menrot. He had two sons Hunor and Magyar. Once when they hunted as ussual they saw a doe which crossed the strait of Meotida..." In the Chronic of the Konstanz sinod, Bulgaria (even falled under turkish upression) was presented with his king and a state coat of arms and there is written: "The emperor of Bulgarians and a king of chaldeans (babylonians/summerians)..." The chaldeans often is related with the Magy from a New Testament. And there are an old russian chronical from XVI century: "...because the bulgarians, p'rsi and vlukhvi (the Magy on bulgarian and slavic languages) are one and the same people, and all of them are settlers on this land...". And again Constantin Manasi - a bizantinian chronist from XII century A.D. about the conquests of the legendary egyptian faraon Sessostris: "And then he called helpers from the huns and conqoured all the earth. and he gived a gift to any nation, and gived Assiria to the huns. And he take to the  huns a name partyans, which means skitians...". By the way, in shummerian chronicals is written that the founder ot the legendary town of Uruk (Unug on shumerian transcription), king Mes-ki-ag-ga-she-ir was came in Shumeria from the mighty town of Ban - "the town of a bow", ussualy localized in the Northern Messopotamia most often identificated with Haran, where later was known the huritian Kingdom. all of these should be without any relation with your cuestion if the nobbles of the huritians wasn't  believers to the very popular later indo-aryan gods Indra, Mitra, Varuna and the Nassatians. The truth is this gods appears in India after one of great migrations of the haru-people/hurians/huriti from Mesopotamia and Zagros mauntains to Northern India, where they named Haryana-a small land beetween rivers Indus and Ganga. Another branch of these people (maybe earlier) was settled in Baktria, which capital was popular long time after that as Balkh/Balch, and that means ("head") "primary", "major". Later indian chronicals as "Mahabarata", "Vedas", "Puranas" can give to You a lot of information about the mighty kingdom of Bahlika/Balhika which they fought with. One of the most popular "bahlika" gods was Kubera, and of the kings Kardama, and this are some of the most popular middle-age bulgarians king's names. I gues the tocharians are onother emigrant wave from the Nord-Pontic and Nord-Caucasus area about XVIII century B.C. Anyway, they was one and the same people as "Bahlika" and the indian sources confirm that. The firs (known to me) migration back to Europe is about 6th century B.C. at the time of persian king Kyrus. This information can be find very unexpectable in the irish chronical "Labor Gabala Eren", when is written that the people of "Fir Bolg" was migrated from Thracia to Ireland across the Europe, and also in old Bavarian (bayern) chronicles of monastery of Melch/Melk (?) and The chronic of the monk Aventin presented by prof. Fritzler. In the bavarian chronicles is confirmed that old bavarian people wasn't a germanic people, but they was emmigrant from east, crossing the continent alongside of Armenia and Caucasus to the Panonia, and their first ethnonim wasn't  bayern (bavarian),  but balgharian (balkh-arian). The next one migration was about 4th century B.C. and it is in touch with the wars of Alexander the Great in the Middle Asia. The next one is in 2th century B.C. and it is cause of the wars beetween the huns and skito-sarmatian people. Actually, this is a period, which continue to 2th century A.D. In this period is one of the greatest migrations of the bulgarian people from Asia to Europe and settlement northern of the caucasus mountain. The next one (small migration) is in 5th century A.D. during the Great Migration of the Nations. But the real great migration for bulgarians was in 6th century A.D. because of the coordinated attack against Baktria/Balkhara of the persians, turks and indians. Bulgarian people was taking part in the First Hunic Empire in Asia (3th century B.C. - 2th century A.D.) and the Second Hunic (Atilla's) Empire in Europe (4th -5th century A.D.), beeng in close rellations with the huns. After that beetween 453 and 558 bulgarians became to create his own empire fighting with Bizantinian Empire (and defeated it) and they are the creators of i.e. "Saltovo-Mayaki" culture, ussualy considerred to sarmatians (actually, there is not a big difference beetween the bulgarians and the sarmatians). Unfortunately, after 558 began the movement of the avars and turks to the west and bulgarian people fall in turkish and avarish domination untill (probably) 626, when the bulgarian king (kana-subigi) Kubrat/Khuvrat/Kurt-bat defeat the enemies and recreated his empire. After his death about 665 the hazars/khazars conquored again the eastern part of his kingdom. The third son of Kubrat - Aspar-rukh (also Espor-rig/Espere-rih; "rukh/rig/rih" is the same latin "rex/reges/rix"), enlarge his kingdom with the most of balkanic teritoriaes of the Bizantine Empire, which was settled by bulgarians two centuries earlier. This was about 678-689. The oldest one of Kubrat's sons Bayan, or Boyan (or bat' Boyan) stayed in his possessions in todays Ukraina, becaming a vassal of the hazar's kagan. The second one of the Kubrat's sons, called Kotrag, migrated to the middle course of the Volga river, vhere his sucessors create the Volga-Bulgaria, one of the most powerfull states in the world beetween XI and XIII century. The rest of history You cad ride from any enciclopaedia or textbook.
Sorry about my english! Wish You well!  Smile
Todor Panayotov/Balkh-Arian  
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Very interesting post. But a bit confusing with too many data. Anyway here it is a website about the history of the Bulgars:    www.hunmagyar.org/turan/tatar/bulgar.html
 
I am interested in understanding IN DETAIL what made the Bulgars a "Slav" people  around the X century. I believe this is one of the few cases in human history where a population "changes" linguistic ethnicity.  For example: the Magyars maintaned their uralo-altaic language......why this did not happened with the Bulgars? Smile Brunodam

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Originally posted by brunodam brunodam wrote:

Very interesting post. But a bit confusing with too many data. Anyway here it is a website about the history of the Bulgars:    www.hunmagyar.org/turan/tatar/bulgar.html
 
I am interested in understanding IN DETAIL what made the Bulgars a "Slav" people  around the X century. I believe this is one of the few cases in human history where a population "changes" linguistic ethnicity.  For example: the Magyars maintaned their uralo-altaic language......why this did not happened with the Bulgars? Smile Brunodam
 
In the section "The Bulgarians" of the above website there it is written: ".... the Balkan Bulgarians... after the VII century..... moved south under Khan Asparuch.... and carved out a powerful state..... in Moesia and Trace. They brought Slavic settlers in the region under their sway, and gradually they assimilated. By the X century, the old Turkic Bulgarian language had been replaced by the new Slavonic Bulgarian."  How this happened without war? How the Slavs were able to impose their language to their rulers, the Turkic Bulgarians? I am puzzled by these questions.....Usually a language is imposed by the dominant group, not the contrary: can someone help me, please?
 
One answer that comes to my mind is that perhaps the original Bulgarians were wiped out by epidemies and/or low fertility rates, and so the Slavs outnumbered them until they took control of everything in the region (in a similar way to what has happened in Jamaica -for example- with the original Indians and White rulers actually outnumbered by the Blacks: but the english language of the Whites is the one spoken in Jamaica, not the African languages!).
 
Another answer can be found in the influence of the Orthodox Church, that imposed the Christian language of the Slavs instead of the Pagan language of the Turkic Bulgarians: but why -in this case- were not considered by the Church the original Romanized Thracians (with the Vlach presence)?
 
Hope someone can help. Brunodam

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As a Vlach from northern Bulgaria (near Vidin) I will try to answer your questions. 
 
All scholars indicate that the Slavs assimilated the original Bulgars in a few centuries after the seventh century. Read this writing from R. Wolff about :
 
<<The 'Second Bulgarian Empire.' Its Origin and History to 1204
R. Wolff 
 

AFTER its arrival on the Balkan peninsula in the late seventh century, the Hunnic tribe of the Bulgars was gradually assimilated by the Slavic population which had preceded it by more than a century, and which it had conquered.  The ancient Bulgar language apparently fell out of use except for the formal dating of inscriptions, where its appearance, transcribed in Greek letters, has given rise to several scholarly efforts at interpretation, the more recent of which are now accepted.  In 813 (says Theophanes) Khan Krum drank with the Slav boyars from the skull of the Byzantine Emperor Nicephorus I; and Krum's ambassador, Dargomer, who appears in the sources in the year 812, has a name that is clearly Slavic.  Soon afterward, Slavic names were given in the family of the Khans itself.  The aristocracy seems, however, to have remained Bulgar beyond this date; and, as a counterweight to it, the Khans apparently created a Slavic nobility, and favored the Slavic peasantry. When the great Khan Boris abdicated in 889, and went into a monastery, his son and successor Vladimir fell under the influence of the Bulgar nobles. They seem to have attempted to restore paganism, which Boris had finally abandoned, accepting Christianity under the aegis of Byzantium after experience had convinced him that he could not hope to control and administer the church himself if he received the new religion under the auspices of Rome. When Vladimir and the Bulgar nobles appeared determined to turn back the clock, Boris emerged from the monastery, deposed and blinded Vladimir, put down the Bulgar nobles, installed his second son Symeon on the throne, and enforced the final adoption of Christianity, this time with Slavic as its official language. [7]

Under Symeon began the long and bitter struggle with Byzantium, during which the Bulgar Tsars, now Khans no longer, strove to make themselve Emperors not only over the Bulgars but over the Romans (Rhomaeans, citizens of the Byzantine Empire) as well.

7. For this celebrated series of episodes, see Runciman, op. cit., pp. 99-134; see Zlatarski, i, 2, pp. 254 ff. for the arguments in favor of dating the adoption of Slavonic as the liturgical language in 893. See also F. Dvornik, Les Slaves, Byzance et Rome au IXe siecle (Paris, 1926), pp. 283 ff. A. A. Vasiliev, 'The "Life" of St. Peter of Argos and its Historical Significance,' Traditio, V (1947), 163-191, discusses (pp. 177 ff.) the process of Slavonization, and brings together from little known and seldom cited sources considerable evidence bearing on the early Bulgarian campaigns in Greece.>>
 
Khan Boris seems to be the one that officially made Slavic the language of the Bulgars (with the final adoption of Christianity).
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Mar-2008 at 02:27
Quote Balkh-Aryan
I will try to explane to you who are the bulgarians. The bulgarians are a descendent of the tocharians, which is eastern branch of the cimmerians (which is an eastern branch ot the thracians).
 
Bulgars, Tocharians, Cimmerians and Thracians are the same peoples or linked? incredible, I've never heard of such a theory I hope you can proove it.
 
Bulgars were and are Turkic according to mainstream history.
 
This doesn't make modern day "Bulgarians" Turkic, the Bulgars were a small element, they ruled the area and created an Empire however were later assimilated by the Slavs, the only Bulgar thing remaining being the Bulgar identity.
 
The closest living language to old Bulgar is Chuvash, a Turkic language.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Mar-2008 at 04:40
Yes. This is ridiculous Bulgars=Tocharians LOLLOLLOL  Thumbs%20Down
 
Bulgars were Turkic nobody proved otherwise.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Balkh-Aryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Mar-2008 at 11:31
O.K., guys, I will write again, even I'm already tied to do it again and again.
At first, nobody knows who was the cimmerians. Until now the science agree the term "thraco-cimmerians". Second fact is that more than a half of lexical fond in our language is not slavic, but not turkic too, so there is no from where co come, especially if it is strongly related to the todays language of a small east - iranian groups in Pamir. The bulgarian grammar is also completely different than slavic and turcik grammars, but very simmilar to this pamirian language. All the bulgarian's bloodship (?) words/notions are specific and not slavic, but not turkic too. And this is very  significant, I think.
We have an ancient indian sources mentioning (a lot of times) about the large and mighty kingdom of Bahlika/Balhika/Balhara. You probably know it all - they are famous. There's armenian sources too, like "Ashharacuits" and others. The only hypothetic refers about the proto-bulgars eastern than the Tyanshan mountain is in  chinese sources "Tsyen-Han-Shu","Ho-Han-Shu","Wey-Shu"and"Suy-Shu": "Po-le"/"Po-lo-le"/"Po-lo-ti"/ Pu-quo". They could be proto-bulgars, but most probably they are not. Even they was proto-bulgars, You know well in this time the region of Tarim was settled of tochars and outher indo-aryan groups, but not of turcik. The turcik just didn't exist before 5th century A.D.. But about the huns I wrote yet. Anyway, it is impossible to find some bulgarians in the region of Mongolia and Altay, but they existed very sure in Bactria and Sogdiana since 8th century B.C. and maybe much more early in !3th century B.C. As You wish, if You can date more accurately  the events from "Vedas", "Mahabharata" and etc.
 The thesis that bulgarian nation have a turkic origin is based only on the presumptions that bulgarian was huns, but huns was turkic. (All of the earlyest sources separate the bulgarians from the huns, when talk about them.)The first one is not right, even our first known dynasty in Europa was hunic and hunic tribes took a part in our ethnogenesis. But in that time we already had a formed bulgarian ethnos from almost 2000 years. The second one, the theory that the huns was turkic is not still proved surely enough.  They was may be an uralic group most likely. In either case the anthropologycal materials and saved pictures (realy a lot) of proto-bulgarian shows to us an europoid appearance from the pamiro-fergan sub-race, as it is now. Of course, there is mongoloid and mixed skulls  in the graves too. There in not well defined borders in the steppes. And to my people was had live for a time in the steppes. So there was some mixing. But when it was happen the bulgarian ethnos was already formed with his own name from more than  thousend of years. Did I make my self clear enough?
 There is  A lot of  documents  from  latin, and armenian (thanks to them!) sources which indicate a bulgarian presence in Europa more than 4 centurys before the hunic invasion. It is related to the scytho-sarmatian migration in 2th century B.C. and is is result exactly of hunic wars against tocharians and scytho-sarmatians.Then some of people  migrated but the most  stayed in the Middle Asia until 2thcentury A.D., but the last until 6th century A.D. They was the last emigrants of a lot of migrant waves. I can post here a tocharo-english-bulgarian dictionary, and You can see with your own eyes, what I mean. You disappointed me, guys! I tough You are serious men, loving the historiographyc provocations and to investigate the unclear cases in the science. Don't be so stupid to hold on for obsolete theories unproved with facts. The new facts must help You to change your views if You are smart and able to thinking with your own brains. I think You are that kind of people. Are You? Just try.
You can also search for the investigations (books) of prof. Petar Dobrev about this. I thing there is in the net his publications. He explains very well all this. Then You will see that the turkic-protobulgars are some mysterious ethnos, which didn't exist in the sources of the proto-bulgarian's contemporarys. If You can find somewhere this non-subsistent tribe I will greet You.Clap Wish You Well!
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Sorry, a technical mistake: The events in "Mahabharata" was between 13th and 8th century B.C.
I apoologise about this !3th. It doesn't mean nothing.Smile
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The most important reason for the misunderstanding that the bulgarians (the balkh-aryan people) was a branch of the huns is the facts, that in the middle of 4th century A.D. when the huns came in Europe (and find here bulgarians northern of the Caucasus mountain), the legendary hunic dynasty Dulo (or "Thulo" if You prefer) replaced the old bulgarian dynasty of Kardamites. The bulgarian people accept that situation and allied with the huns, because in this moment they was pressed between the goths and his own kinsmen - the allans. The dynasty of Kardamites was ruling the bulgars since 13th-12th century B.C., and may be it was exhausted yet. I don't know. The fact is that the hunic dynasty of Dulo has come and my people accept it. So, this dynasty has its hunic noble and military environment. This environment was i.e. "(h-)unogondurs", which, by the way has it's relations much more earlier in Shummer where "unnukudur" has sense "the central one/ the capital kind", if it is possible to talk about some towns, much less for capital cities regarding to the huns. The hunogondurs was huns, but not a mongoloid. May be just mixed race but not a lot. Mainly europoid. The bulgarians was not huns, and not mongoloid. Probably the language of hunogondurs was nearly to uralic group, than to altaic. The language of the proto-bulgarians was an indo-aryan language with insignificant uralo-altaic influence as it is still now. But the policy was made by the kingly and noble class, which was the hunogondurs. So, that's why sometimes the sources talk about "bulgarians-hunogondurs" or "hunogondurs, bulgarians and kotragians (kutrigurs)". But earliest sources separate them. In the state of Balhika/Balhara there was no hunogondurs. Only balhikas or balharas if You prefer. We was neighbours to huns twice and we had a coalitions with them, and of course we was a little bit mixed with them. But the bulgarian people had a different origin, which succeeded to save and keep. And also we are much more older ethnos then huns, with strong traditions for development of towns, farming, trades and useful arts. We was not any kind of nomads. Just some differences. May be not enough, to prove we was not huns or turks. Learn, guys, learn. And think. Wish you success! Smile
Your friend (even You can't realize this): Todor Panayotov/Balkh-Aryan
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I know, You can tell me so if the bulgarian language is not slavic and not turcik, so it is probably thracian one. But it is very strange that our official literary language has really strong relations with the thracian one, which most probably dues to the medieval liturgic language. because as we know the thracians was christian believers after 3th century A.D., and probably exactly the thracians was our teachers of religion. But the dialects (which is a real living speech in any language) in Bulgaria  is different than slavic, turcik and thracian languages too. It according to the scytho-sarmatian and tocharian language. And this is very strong. You may not believe that, but it is truth. So, if somebody can solve this puzzle let try to explain it, if You don't want to accept my explanation. Anyway, I wish You success! Todor Panayotov/Balkh-Aryan Geek
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By the way, the chuvash language is not a bulgarian one. The chuvash language is an ancient  suvaric, and it is really very old language, but it is not bulgarian. Even we accept the huns was turcik, and they found a modern (medieval, of course) bulgarian state, the owner of the name "Bulgar/Balgar/Balkhar" was not a turcik ethnos, and this is absolutely sure. This name has an east-iranian origin. Just because the people which own it was eastern-iranian, and they use this name since 13th century B.C., and may be earlier.
Yes, the hunogondurs was a small group in our ethnogenesis history (in principle they was not a small number, see the letter of Khagan Josef to Hasdai Ib'n Shapruth). But the bulgars was great numbers. You can see the Chronycle  of  Constantine  Manasius, for example. That's why the bulgarians never need to be assimilated by the slavs to lost their turcik identity. All the slavic tribes (demographycaly calculated about 200-250 000 in the provinces of Moesya, Thracia and Macedonia, in contrast of bulgarians which was calculated about 800-900 000) between the end of 7th and the middle of 9th century A.D., was replaced to the lands northern of the Danube river. Sorry!
Anyway, be lucky and healthy! Geek
Todor Panayotov/Balkh-Aryan
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WordGumbo  Indo-European  Comparative Indo-European 


Tocharian


Sources:

1. Tocharian Languages. Edited by V.Ivanov. Moscow, 1959.
2. Windekens, A.J., Le tokharien confront avec les autres langues indo-europennes. Louvain, 1976.
3. Burlak, S. The Historical Phonetics of Tocharian languages. Moscow, 1995.
4. Gamkrelidze T., Ivanov V. Indo-European Language and Indo-Europeans. Moscow, 1984.
5. Fasmer, M. The etymological dictionary of the Russian language. Moscow, 1986.


Notes for Dictionary:
general - Common Tocharian or Tocharian A words
italic - Tocharian B words
, , - long [a], and sounds
- a sound like in Sanskrit ava or in English cashier
- a sound similar to German Kse (cheese) or English band
- a soft [n'] sound
s' - palatal [s] usually written as a little line over it
n., m., r., s. - cerebral sounds
@ - the Indo-European 'schwa' sound


Dictionary (192):

Tocharian English Bulgarian Dictionary:

ac- - a beginning, a start (Sanskrit sad- - to get down, dis - a start, Slavic *jzda - a riding) ; see below (h-)aide; also adi (come on, start) in dialects
ak, ek - an eye (IE *okw- - an eye) ;oko (an eye)
akmal - a face (see ak + mala)
amokyo - art (instr.sg.) ; moga (I can)
asam.khe - a variety
as's'i - exactly (particle) ;see dialect form asal (exactly, thats wright)
ats - exactly
mpi - both (IE *ambh- + *bh - both)
c - down
nt - through, across
nt, nte - a forehead (IE *ant- - fore, forehead)
ant-api - both (see mpi)
ks'acc - to the sky
nte - a plain ;yasen (clear, articulate, distinct, plain, obvious, evident)
re - a plough (IE *r- - to plough) ;ore/ plug (plough, till)
rki , rkwi- - white (IE *arg'- - white, shining; silver) ;yarko (brighty/ shining)
rtimr - we should love
sta - bones (IE *kost-, *ost- - a bone) ;see proto-bulgarian aso (ash)
ati - grass (IE *ad- - to grow?)
bime - a thought, an idea
cake - a river (IE *tek- - to flow, to run) ; see proto-bulgarian chai (a river)
ckcar, tkcer - a daughter (IE *dhutr- - a daughter) ;dashterya (a daughter)
twar, twer - four (IE *kwetwores - four) ;see proto-bulgarian twir (four)
e-, ai- - to give (IE *ay- - to give, to take) ; (h-)aide ( come on (take this, give me that))
eane - an eye
ents-, en'k - to bear (IE *nek'- - to bear, to carry)
i- - to go (IE *ei- - to go) ; see above (h-)aide (come on, start)
kam - twenty (IE *wkmot - twenty)
kaklyus.u - on hearing (verbal adverb) (see klyos-) ; sluh/ slusha (Hearing, ear/ he hears)
kakmu - on coming (verbal adverb)
kaltr - he stops
km- - to come (IE *gwem- 'come') ; see dialect forms kam ta/kuma/kumai (where are you from?/come/go)
kam, keme - a ripple, a tooth (IE *gonbh- - a ledge)
knt, kant, kante - a hundred (IE *kmotom - a hundred)
kanwem - knees (dual, IE *genu- - a knee)
kryap - harm
kuryar, karyor - a purchase (IE *kwreya- - to buy)
kus - who? (IE *kwis - who) koi (who?)
ks - to go out, to extinguish (IE *gwes- - to extinguish) kash (go away! (usually to animals, but not only))
kast - famine
kay-urs, ka-urs.e - a bull (IE *wers- - a bull) ; krava (a cow)
kektsee - a body
kerciye - a palace (IE *gher- - to stockade; a settlement)
klw - to declare, to announce (IE *kleu- - to hear) ;kleveta (calumny)
klots, klautso - an ear (IE *kleu- - to hear)
klyos- - to hear (IE *kleu- - to hear)
knn - to know (IE *gn- - to know, from *gen- - kinship, a knee) ;znam (I know/I have a knowledge)
ko, keu - a cow (IE *gwou- - a bull) ;govedo (ox, bull, buffalo, cow, calf; but also: boor, blockhead, oaf)
krons'e - a bee (IE *k'ers- - an insect)
ksaise - old
ktsai - to grow old
ku - a dog (IE *kwon- - a dog) ;kuche (a dog)
kukl, kokale - a wagon (IE *kwel- - round, a wheel) ;kola (a car);kolelo (a wheel);kara (drive)
kulmnts - reed (IE *k'al@m- - straw)
kuras', krost - cold (IE *krus- - an edge of ice?)
kwyall - why? ;kvo?/kakvo (what?)
laks, lks - a fish (IE *lak'@s- - fish, a salmon)
lap - a skull (Greek lophos - a nape, a hill, Slavic lob - a forehead) ;glava (a head)
lip- - to remain, to stay (IE *leikw- - to stay)
lk-, lyk- - to see (IE *luk- - to see, to look)
lw - a beast  ; lav (a leon as a beast)
lyukemo - illuminated (participle) (IE *leuk- - light)
lyutr - excessively (Welsh llid < *lto- - rage, Russian lyuty - angry, terrible) ;lyut (rage, angry)
m - not (Greek m, m - not, Sanskrit m - don't) ama/ma (but)
mcar, mcer - a mother (IE *mtr- - a mother) ;makya in macedonian dialect (a mother); mayka(a mother)
mak - much (IE *mag'- - large, many) ;megi a dialect form of mnogo (many, much, a lot)
mala - a cheek
malk-, mlk - to milk (IE *melg-, *melk- - to milk) ;mlyako/mleko (a milk)
malto - for the first time (IE *mal-/*mel- - a top)
malyw, mely - to press (IE *mel- - to grind) ;melya/mlivo (grind, mill, mince, digest,also: chatter, jaw/; a grist)
ma, mee - a month (IE *men-es- - moon, a month)
mnt - how
ms's'unt - brains (IE *mazgh- - brains) ; see misal/mozak (a thought, a brain)
men'ki - less (IE *manw- - small, little) ;maninku a dialect form of malko (small, little, less)
misa - meat, flesh (IE *mms- - meat) ;meso (a meat)
mit - honey (IE *medhu- - honey) ; see med (honey)
ns - us (IE *nosmes - we) ;nas (us) ; (we is nie)
kat, akte - a god (IE *nekt- - a deity)
om, nem - a name (IE *nem- - to call, to assign) ;ime (a name)
u - new (IE *newo- - new) ;nov (new)
- nine (IE *newno - nine)
nut, naut - to die (IE *nw- - a corpse, to die)
okat, okt - eight (IE *okt - eight) ; osem (eight)
oki - like (conjunction)  ;see medieval-bulgarian yako(-je) (being)
om-post-am. - after that (IE *po- - after) ;posle (after that, later)
onkalm - an elephant  ;slon (an elephant)
orkm - gloom, darkness (Greek orphnos - dark, dark brown) ;see proto-bulgarian uruki(a harming evil); mrak (darkness)
orto - up (Latin orior - I rise)
pltskk - a thought  ;see proto-bulgarian bal (a head, a major)
pk, pke - a section (IE *bhag- - to share with smb)
pcar, pacer - a father (IE *pa'te'r - a father) ;bashta (father)/tate (daddy)
pk- - to cook, ripen (IE *pekw-/ *pokw- 'to cook') ;peka (to bake, roast, barbecue, toast, burn, scorch); also: iz-picham, na-picham
pl, ple - a wound (IE *bhal- - ill, sick)
plt, pilta - a leaf (IE *bhel- 'leaf')
pa, pi, pis' - five (IE *penkwe - five) ;pet/see proto-bulgarian vech(-em) (five(-th))
pant, pin.kce - fifth (see above) ; see above
papaks.u - something boiled (*pek-, *pekw- - to bake) pecheno/opecheno (bake, toast see above)
prkr - long
prwn,  prwne - an eyebrow (IE *bhr- - an eyebrow)
prvat,  prwes.s.e - the oldest, a wizard (see parwe) ;parvi (a first/ at first time (parvi + pat))
parno, perne - shining (participle)
parwe - at first (?) (IE *pro-wo- - forward, first) ;parvo (at first)
ps, psk - to graze (IE *p-, *paH- - to secure, to graze) ;pasha/pasa (pasture, pasha/ graze, pasture)
pe, pai - a foot (IE *ped- - a foot) ;pai (share, portion)
pin'kam. - he writes (IE *peik'- - to draw signs) ;pisha (I write); pishe (he writes)
plk - to be agree
plewe - a ship, a boat (IE *pleu- - to sail) plava/ puva (float, sail/ swim)
pokem. - a hand (IE *bhghu- - a hand)
por., puwar - fire (IE *paur- - inanimate fire) ;pozjar (fire, blaze)
porat, peret - an axe (IE *pelk'- - to chop) - could be borrowed from Iranian ;bradva (an axe), also to-por (an axe)
pracar, procer - a brother (IE *bhrtr- - a brother) ;brat (a brother)
prak, prk - to ask (IE *prok'- - to ask)
pres'ciye - ooze ;tresavishte (a swamp, morass, ooze, quagmire)
put-k - to judge, to divide (Latin putare - to think, Russian pytat' - to torture)
rake, reki - speech, a word (IE *rek- - to speak) ;da reka/rech/na-richam/iz-richam (to say/ speech/ naming/ saying)
ratre, rtr, ratrem. - red (IE *reudh- - red, rust)
ri, riye - a city ;a bulgarian suffix for place from (someone is) -rii for plural; also -iya for places, lands, countries and etc.
rit - to search
s.k, skas - six (IE *sweks - six) ;shest, sounds shes; see proto-bulgarian sheht(-em) (six(-th))
s'k, s'ek, s'ak - ten (IE *dekmot - ten) ;deset, probably proto-bulgarian form is dekh-sekht? (ten)
sle, slyi - salt (IE *sal- - grey, dirty; salt) ;sol (salt)
slk- - to pull out (IE *selk- - to drag, a furrow) ;vlacha (to drag)
salu, sol - whole (IE *salw- - whole, healthy) ;cyal /tsyal (a whole)
s.lyp, s.alype - fat, oil (IE *selp- - fat)
s.amne - a monk ;shaman (a priest but not a Christian one); see Sanskrit samana, hittitian kimmant (north, winter) as a place of gods
s'm, s'ana - a wife (IE *gwen- - a wife, a woman) ;zjena (a woman)
s'nmaya - he was proclaimed
s.ar, s.er - a sister (IE *swesr- - a sister) ;sestra (a sister)
srk, sark - an illness ;zjar, treska (heat, fever)
sas, se, s.eme - one (IE *sem- - one, the only, alone) ;sam (alone)
s'cirye - starry
se, soy - a son (IE *s- - to be born) ;sin (a son)
se (masc.), s (fem.), te (neut.) - this (IE *so, *s, *tod - this) ;toi/tya/to (he, she, it)
s'is'kiss - a lion (acc.sg.)
skente - they are (IE *es- - to be) ;(te) sa ((they) are)
smimm. - smiling (participle) (IE *smey- - to laugh) ;smeya se/smyah (I laugh, laugh)
soma-, somo- - the same, similar (IE *smoo- - the same, some)
s.pm, s.pne - a dream (IE *swep- - to sleep, *swep-no- - a dream) ;spya/spane (I sleep, sleeping)
s.pt, sukt - seven (IE *septom - seven) ;sedem, see proto-bulgarian sept(-em) (seven(-th))
spin- - a hook, a peg (IE *spey- - a peg)
s.tm, stm - a tree (IE *st- - to stand) ;stavam/ stoya (I stand up, I stay/stand)
s.top, s.tow - a stick (IE *stp- - a branch, a stump) sopa
su (masc.), s (fem.), tu (neut.) - that (see se) ;toi/tya/to (he, she, it) see above
swa - to eat (Slavic *z'vati - to chew, Latvian z'aunas - gills, Old High German kiuwen - to chew, Armenian kiv - arboreal resin, Persian javiden - to chew) ;supa (soup)
suwam. - it is raining (IE *seu-, *su- - to rain, to flow)
swase, swese - rain (see above) ;teche (its floating)
tm - this (IE *to- - demonstrative pronoun) ;tam (there); tyam dialect form (of/by them)
tn'k-, tan'k- - to interfere (IE *tnog- - heavy, hard)
tprk - now (Russian teper' - now?)
tek - to touch
tetriwu - he pounds (IE *ter- - to rub) ;triya/iz-trivam/ na-trivam (to rub/ to pound)
tkam, kem - ground (IE *dhghom- - ground) ; see kamak (a stone)
tmk - that is why ;dialect form demek (that is to say, namely)
tms' - then  ; see dialect form togas (then)
trm-, trm-, treme (pl.) - to shiver, a shiver (IE *trem- - to shake) ;treperya/ tresa se (I shiver/ I shake)
tri, traiy - three (IE *treyes, *tr - three) ; tri (three)
trit, trite - thrice (see above) ;treti (third)
tsar@ - a hand (IE *g'hesro- - a hand)
tsr - rough, shaggy (IE *khar- - sharp) ;ostar (sharp)
tsatspau - warmed (participle) (IE *tep- - warm) ;za-toplen
tsik - to generate
tsiraue - power, strength
tsras'i - strong ;zdrav (strong, healthy)
tsu- - to link, to bind (IE *dhw- - to bind)
tu - thou (IE *t - thou) ;ti (you, thou)
tumane, tumm. - ten thousand
tunk - love ;cunka/tsunka a dialect form of tseluvka (a kiss)
wac - a quarrel, struggle (IE *wod- - to speak, to shout)
waiwalau - dizziness (IE *wel- - to turn, to twist) ;iz-vivam/ na-vivam (to twist/ wind up, roll up, screw up; also: put up, key up)
wak, wek - voice (IE *wekw-/ *wokw- 'voice') ;vika (he shouts/ he speaks)
wl, walo - a prince (IE *wal- - strong, powerful) ; see bal above
wl - to die ; see raz-valya/ po-valya (spoil, ruin, disorder, damage, taint, rot/ overthrow, knock down, lay out, fell)
walke - long  ;dalag (lond, tall)
wlts, yaltse - a thousand  ;hilyada (a thousand)
want, yente - to fly, to breathe
wp - to weave
wr - water (IE *war- - water, wet) ;voda (a water)
warto, wrto - a garden, a grove (IE *wer- - to defend, to close) ;gradina (a garden)
ws - gold
wtk-, watk- - to order (see wac)
wes - we (IE *wei- - we, me and you) ; see above nas(us)/vas means: (to) you
weskemane - speaking (participle)
wramm - a thing
wraua - a crow ;vrana (a crow)
wu (masc.), we (fem.) - we two (see wes)
wu, wi - two (IE *duwo, *dwo - two) ;dve/ dva; see proto-bulgarian tut(-om) (two/second)
yam, ya, ym - to do (Hittite aia- - to do) ;see dialect form ya- (if) for action
yok - to drink ; see dialect form locha (lap, swill, guzzle)
yokani - thirsting (participle)
ysar, ysr - blood (IE *esr- - blood)
yss. (3rd sg. pres.), yaysau (participle) - to boil (IE *yes- - to boil)
ytr (f) - a path, a way (see i-)
yuk, yakwe - a horse (IE *ekwo- - a horse) ; see yuzda (a rein); see proto-bulgarian teku (a horse)

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Earl
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Balkh-Aryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Mar-2008 at 13:43
have a nice learning, guys! Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Balkh-Aryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Mar-2008 at 14:15
Can You find somewhere in this dictionary your favorite "turco-slavic" bulgarian's origin? You must know, I am not very well grounded to all our dialects. And also this is just a part of tocharian words, and as you also probably know there was tocharian A and tocharian B languages. And also, almost 1500 years was passed by since this time. And also there was outher groups in our ethnogenesis too. And also there is not a grammar here, just a lexical fond. And also we have no saved the whole of proto-bulgarian language, just fragments - about 200 -300 words. We just suppose the most of our words, which are not slavic, turcik or thracian, are probably eastern-iranian. Can You find something more closer than tocharian to our language? Something more reasonable? Try! I wish You success! Geek
Todor Panayotov/Balkh-Aryan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Mar-2008 at 15:36
Don't worry, the Bulgars being Turkic doesn't make modern day Bulgarians Turkic.
 
There is nothing left from the Bulgars in Bulgaria except their identity, their language, religion, socio-cultural factors have not survived.
 
Bulgar was a branch of "Oghur" Turkic, the Volga Bulgars and Khazars spoke this language, todays Tatars of Tatarstan federal region of Russia and Chuvash have some descendancy from the Bulgars. Chuvash is the closest language to old Bulgar and is classified as being Oghur while Tatar today is Kipchak.
 
 
      What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Balkh-Aryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Mar-2008 at 15:37
Kuber(a), Kardam(a), Avitohol, Sinion, Hinialon, Drago/Drogon, Sandilk, Zabergan, Grod/Gordius, Kubrat/Huvrat, Aspar "rugh"/ Espor "rig"/ Espere "rih" ("rugh/rig/rih" according to the assyrian "rih"="shur"="king"; and also to the latin,celtic and germanic "rex/rix/reges/riges/regal/royal" with the same meaning. Turkish??? Slavish??? Most unlikely.), Tervel, Tvirem, Kormisosh, Vineh, Telets, Sabin/ Sabinian, Telerig, Kroum, Mortagon, Malamir/Balamir, Persian, Zvinica, Rasate... also some ordinary people's names: Vidol, Micho/Mitso, Gocho/Gogo, Tano/Tanyu, Zapryan, Pando, Penko/Pencho, Todor/Tudor, Yavor, Dacho/Dako/Detcho, Nako/Nacho, Stoiyan/ Stoine/ Stanko/Tsanko, Tseko, Tinko, Manol, Momchil/ Manush/ Genko/ Ganko/ Gancho... and many others. Where are here Your favorite "turko-slavish" names? Funny. You can find some of these names in the ancient Persian Empire, Bactria, India, even in Shummer and Akkad, You can find this names as thracian or scytho-sarmatian names, but not as slavish or turcik names. Why? How can we lost some identity which we never have?
And here is some bloodship words: father/ daddy - bashta/ tate ; mother/ mummy - maika/ mama ; brother - brat ; older brother - bate ; sister - setra ; older sister - kaka (in slavic languages it means "shit") ; uncle/brother of father - chicho ; oncle/brother of mother - vuicho (this is a slavish probably, but they have not "chicho") ; aunt/sister of father or mother - lelya ; aunt/ wife of "chicho" - chinka ; brother of wife - shurei ; brother of husband - dever ; grandfather - dyado (in slavish languages grandfather is "dedushka", but "dedo" means "uncle") ; grandmother - baba (in turcik languages it means "father"); wife of the husband's brother - etarva ; sister of the husband - zalva/ kalina ; husband of the father's sister - kaleko ; son of the father's or mother's brother/ sister - bratovched (it means "chedo" - a child/kid of the brat - brother, comprehending of father or mother) and many many others. Even I don't know it at whole. 
There's no turkish or altaic correspondences, parities and counterparts. Not much slavish too. There's not from where to come.
Guys, You've got to realize at last, that the bulgarian question is one of the most complicated problems in the historiography and ethnology, before to talk so surely. Never be more sure than somebody, who knows his origin well. If You don't know somethink, just ask. And the least but not last - too many bulgarians don't know their roots and write and talk just the usual bullshits. Don't trust to the people which was never reed nothing but their stupid  and political ordering textbooks (and even this not very careful). Never trust to the people, who's political exaltation get the upper hand over their simple knowledge.
 All of You - be healthy and happy! Geek
Todor Panayotov/Balkh-Aryan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Mar-2008 at 15:58
Nonsense. In fact some of the name you posted are Slavic: Tudor, Soian, Yavor, Grod, Zapryan, Penko etc. all these are Slavic names, why do you have to go to India and Shumer?
 
In Russian there are: brat, matka, sestra, shurin, dever, deda (grandfather) etc. Don't make this ridiculous conclusions by attributing Slavic word to Ancient Shumer etc.
 
May be you should look for the origins of Bulgarians in the outer space perhaps they are even more Ancient than Shumer Thumbs%20Down
 
Be healthy!
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