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Forum LockedTop 100 Generals

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Jallaludin Akbar View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jallaludin Akbar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jan-2009 at 03:45
What about african generals?? There's Sunni Ali, King Shaka of the Zulu..maybe someone can find out more info some great generals from africa?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DSMyers1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jan-2009 at 13:53
Originally posted by Jallaludin Akbar Jallaludin Akbar wrote:

What about african generals?? There's Sunni Ali, King Shaka of the Zulu..maybe someone can find out more info some great generals from africa?


Shaka is #75, Sonni Ali is #124 (having been on the list at one point).
The Top 100 Generals | Leaders



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jan-2009 at 19:17
what exactly are Sonni Alis exploits?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wulkul the great Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Jan-2009 at 08:51
i think william wallace or william the conquror should be on there
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Travis Congleton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Jan-2009 at 18:35
Originally posted by DSMyers1 DSMyers1 wrote:


Shaka is #75, Sonni Ali is #124 (having been on the list at one point).
 
Lost a valueable Military magazine that had an article about one of Shaka's battles.  Most impressive.  I plan to purchase that magazine again and work on his portfolio.
 
Sonni Ali.  Yep.  He established an empire militarily.  So have a lot of other people.  Other than that, nothing noteable.  No noted conquests, achievements, etc...
 
The reader should learn something, even if repeated, from one and all of the 100 commanders.  DSMyers1's ranking of Sonni Ali is generous.  Most generous.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Penelope Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Jan-2009 at 23:35
Originally posted by Temujin Temujin wrote:

what exactly are Sonni Alis exploits?
 
Well, Sonni Ali was well versed in the forms and techniques of warfare when he came to power in 1464. During his reign, the tiny kingdom of songhai would suddenly become a gigantic empire, which stretched over 3,200 kilometers along the niger river.
The direct use of force is such a poor solution to any problem, it is generally employed only by small children and large nations.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Feb-2009 at 20:26
Originally posted by Penelope Penelope wrote:

 
Well, Sonni Ali was well versed in the forms and techniques of warfare when he came to power in 1464. During his reign, the tiny kingdom of songhai would suddenly become a gigantic empire, which stretched over 3,200 kilometers along the niger river.


and how did he do that?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Penelope Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Feb-2009 at 08:56
Originally posted by Temujin Temujin wrote:

Originally posted by Penelope Penelope wrote:

 
Well, Sonni Ali was well versed in the forms and techniques of warfare when he came to power in 1464. During his reign, the tiny kingdom of songhai would suddenly become a gigantic empire, which stretched over 3,200 kilometers along the niger river.


and how did he do that?
He achieved this by using his great military skill and inexhaustible energy. Marching at the head of his armies, he was able to capture city after city, the most important of these being the wealthy trading cities of Timbucktu, and Jenne. He had completely conquered and annexed the Mellestine Empire, who had long subjugated tiny songhai. Sonni then marched on to conquer the kingdoms of the Humburi, the Mossi, the Teska, the Ghana, and the Bara. He then proceeded to invade the empire of Senhadata Nounan, capturing the Queen Bikoum Kabi. After this, the kingdoms of the Housas, the Senhadata, the Fulbes, the Dias, and the Peuhls, all fell to the might of his army. Next Sonni marched to Lake Debo, and destroyed the gigantic fortified city of Chiddo. He then smartly, returned to his capital, so as to attend to the affairs of his newly created empire. Soon after having enacted is reforms, he then felt the insatiable need to return to war. The kingdom of the Gomas became his final conquest as he marched eastward, raiding their territories along the way. He had clearly engulfed areas that had belonged to both the Mali empire, and Ghana Empire.
 
 
The direct use of force is such a poor solution to any problem, it is generally employed only by small children and large nations.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Feb-2009 at 18:49
well Ok but how did he do it, what was the reason for his sucesses? how did his genious manifest itself? what did his army look like, what were his enemies like, what battles did he fought and so on. also i don't think the Mossi were ever conquered by foreign people other than French.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Penelope Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Feb-2009 at 21:53

His standing army was primarily based on calvary, though it was also comprised of infantry. I doubt that any pictures exists, there is a book that is based exclusively on his military as well as his battles which i will be purchasing shortly. Then we will be able to get more into detail. And as for the Mossi, they were a group of seperate kingdoms who were constantly at war with one another, and yes some of them did eventually fall to invaders. Even Askia The Great, who was Ali's successor, was able to conquer the Burkina, which was a Mossi kingdom. Anyway, i'll be back as soon as i get the book.

The direct use of force is such a poor solution to any problem, it is generally employed only by small children and large nations.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Feb-2009 at 19:02
what's the name of that book?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Penelope Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Feb-2009 at 08:33

Sonni Ali-Ber, fondateur de l'Empire songhay by Lansine Kaba.

The direct use of force is such a poor solution to any problem, it is generally employed only by small children and large nations.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chosenwarlord Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Feb-2009 at 11:57
skanderbeg deserves to be much higher on that list top 5 at least http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skanderbeg 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote how-soon-is-now? Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Feb-2009 at 04:01
Enjoying the read. But I can not see Pyrrhus of Epirus on that list. Surely he deserves a top ten spot. This man utterly had the Romans beat, and if he would of got the support from the Macedonians then they would of been destroyed completely. He then went to Sicily and defeated the Carthaginians proclaiming himself King. When things started to go wrong in Sicily he returned to Greece and brought Macedon to her knees.

 He was an outstanding leader of men who's presence on the battlefield turned the tide of many battles. He was able to lead Greeks and all types of mercenaries, not to mention bringing elephants to Italy. Although granted, he was never able to capitalize on his battlefield success, he was one of the greatest Generals Greece had seen. Many feared him and all respected him. He was a great influence to Hannibal and he himself ranked him second greatest General up to that time. He was killed in Argos but his achievements that he had already accomplished coupled with his potential warrants a place for him.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samuka14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Feb-2009 at 07:01
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Some comments on the top 20 commanders listed a few pages ago.

With a 116 pages of discusion you have a history I am unaware of. At the risk of repeating old points:

·         Sube’etei (Subotai) at 11? Conquered more territory than any other commander, prevailed by means of imaginative and economical strategy, quite unlike Temujin who was much fonder of a direct fight in set piece action. Sube’etei won more than 35 battles (losing 2). Only way to read about him in English is Buell’s biography.

·         Khalid was an active commander, but the sources show no evidence of higher strategy in his campaigns like, for example, his comtemporaries Heraclios and Li Jing do. Comparable to Scipio, Han Xin, or Mahmud of Ghanzi.

·         Belisarius, Eugene, Turenne, and Frederick II all have the problem that they fought relatively few battles with a poor win-loss ratio. Better  commanders than these are Sher Khan,  Skandeberg, Torstensson, Bai Qi, Khalid, Mahmud of Ghanzi, Grant, etc.

·         De Saxe fought 3 battles with not very good numbers. Nor are his campaigns very impressive on the strategic level.

·         Marlborough fought 6 battles, but spent most his time making little progress in Flanders. Maybe he could have done more without Dutch deputies, but that is just speculation. Anyway, 1703, 1705 first part, 1707, 1709, and 1710 not impressive campaigns. Top 40 or 50 rather than top 10.

·         Suvarov fought mainly half armed Polish rebels and backward Ottoman armies. 19 victories is fine, but he completely lacked the strategic control of Great Captains. Comparable to other high energy commanders like Yueh Fei, Duang Jiong, Model, etc.

·         Cao Cao is one of the great generals of history. More than 40 battles with 3 defeats (Napoleon had 8 with a similar number of battles). Also impressive on the strategic level. See http://asianstudies.anu.edu.au/Early_Imperial_China

·         Caesar spent much time getting out of trouble he should have avoided, but I think still deserve a higher rating. In the end all his campaigns were successfull (unlike Napoleon who had 4 complete disasters out of 14).

·         Ziska was innovative,  but study of his campaigns in detail will show him  having anywhere close to the range of skills of other top generals such as Alexandros, Hannibal, or Napoleon.

·         Given the scope and extent of conflicts in the 20th century, surely at least one of the top ten should be from this era.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Feb-2009 at 07:21

Hello Samuka

Well for your questions here are some answers.

In my opinion, and I have said that several times, none of the mongols should be on the top ten for many reasons but others may differ.

For Khalid, there are many sources describing his campaigns, the problem is they are not western sources which these days are the only way to recognize the achievments of someone. I think if you browse the pages you will see some discussion about him.
 
For Caesar, well I am very weary about his place. Since I read his account of the Gallic war I began to get my doubts about his worthiness. He was a good general no doubt but a great one? Had he campaigned against the Parthians we could judge him better. Pompey in my opinion was better than him.
 
For the rest it is debatable.
 
Finally, if I had the decision, I would remove all 20th century generals since war was totally different and since very very few outstanding generals can be found.
 
Al-Jassas
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Penelope Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Feb-2009 at 08:31
i agree with how-soon-is-now's take on King Pyrrhus Of Epirus, he shouldnt even be listed.

Edited by Penelope - 14-Feb-2009 at 08:32
The direct use of force is such a poor solution to any problem, it is generally employed only by small children and large nations.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Knights Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Feb-2009 at 09:02
I'd like to echo what Chosen Warlord said - I think we should look at raising Skenderbeg (in my opinion). His sheer record and consistency rivals that of Suvorov, who is up at number 6. Big things in his favour would be skill and extent of opposition, longevity, consistency and tactical aptitude over a range of battle formats (conventional/guerilla).

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Evrenosgazi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Feb-2009 at 10:16
Let us dont forget the victories of Suvorov against the revolutionary army in Italy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zoch(Skull Crusher) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Feb-2009 at 16:01
I usually never respond to posts but I could not resist here since you omit a top 10 in my book.Jean Parisot de Valette Grand Master at the Siege of Malta. If you simply look what and how he endured his rise  to the rank of Grand Master that alone would get my vote for entry into the top 100. But what he accomplished against gargantuan odds says enough.
Also you have omitted Joshua  who led the Hebrews into battle. Consisting of a group of ragamuffins he deafeated the people of the plains who had   superior technology. Iron Chariots were redndered useless as he fought a  gurella campagin from the Judean foothills securing Cannan for his people.
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