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Forum LockedTop 100 Generals

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DSMyers1 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 19-Jul-2006 at 12:49
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I have been working on developing a list of the top 100 generals in history.  Obviously, this has been done before.  Michael Lee Lanning created a list of "influential" generals, which in his mind apparently meant "Anglo-American."  I really do not like his rankings.  I have seen other good lists, both by Travis Congleton and by Spartan here on this forum.  My list is based upon theirs.

I'd like to have a wide variety of countries and eras represented.  Of course, much of the ranking is subjective anyway... I hope this will be very educational, and thus I have been developing a database with useful information about the generals in many catagories (probably like Travis Congleton's Portfolios--only less in depth).

I'd like all the comments I can get on this list.  If you see anybody I've left out, tell me why I should put them in.  The list is based primarily on strategic and tactical prowess.

EDIT: This is Version 7 of the list, with comments through page 65 considered.  There wasn't room in the post to leave the original list on here, so some of the posts won't make a lot of sense--they may refer to names that aren't even on here anymore.  (The original rank, from version 1, is farthest left.)

Color codes: Green has jumped 2 or more up, Red has fallen 2 or more, and Blue is new to the list.
Orig. Ver 6 Rank Name
1 1 1 Alexander the Great
6 3 2 Temujin (Genghis Khan)
3 2 3 Napoleon Bonaparte
2 4 4 Hannibal Barca
21 9 5 Timur
44 19 6 Khalid ibn al-Walid
23 6 7 Aleksandr Suvorov
24 7 8 Jan �i�ka
12 8 9 Belisarius
17 15 10 Subotai
8 5 11 John Churchill (Duke of Marlborough)
4 10 12 Gustav II Adolf
14 11 13 Scipio Africanus the Older
15 12 14 Gaius Julius Caesar
5 18 15 Frederick II of Prussia
20 17 16 Sir Arthur Wellesley (Duke of Wellington)
11 13 17 Henri de La Tour d'Auvergne de Turenne
16 14 18 Eugene of Savoy
7 16 19 Heraclius
22 23 20 Cyrus the Great
18 24 21 Maurice, comte de Saxe
13 21 22 Raimondo Montecuccoli
9 30 23 Philip II of Macedon
68 29 24 Selim I
33 28 25 Heinz Wilhelm Guderian
10 22 26 Gaius Marius
  34 27 George Kastrioti (Skanderbeg)
58 35 28 Nadir Shah
  25 29 Robert Clive
27 26 30 Erich von Manstein
26 20 31 Louis Nicholas Davout
  31 32 H�n X�n
  36 33 Stefan cel Mare (Stephen III)
28 40 34 Gonzalo Fern�ndez de C�rdoba (El Gran Capit�n)
63 42 35 Robert E. Lee
19 46 36 Helmuth Karl Bernhard von Moltke
  89 37 Shapur I
92 43 38 Chandragupta Maurya
43 32 39 Maurice of Nassau
34 33 40 Louis II de Bourbon, Prince de Cond�
45 51 41 Tiglath-Pileser III
32 27 42 Thutmose III
  37 43 Trần HÆ°ng Đạo
  38 44 Shivaji Bhosle
31 39 45 Winfield Scott
30 44 46 Lucius Cornelius Sulla
  50 47 Yue Fei
77 52 48 Babur
  49 49 Tokugawa Ieyasu
78 56 50 Thomas J. (Stonewall) Jackson
46 54 51 Janos Hunyadi
47 55 52 Duke of Parma (Alessandro Farnese)
35 48 53 Leo III the Isaurian
  45 54 Hamilcar Barca
    55 Gazi Evrenos
  63 56 Nurhaci
36 64 57 Paul Emil von Lettow-Vorbeck
53 69 58 Charles XII
51 58 59 Oda Nobunaga
  65 60 Francesco I Sforza
  59 61 StanisÅ‚aw Koniecpolski
52 67 62 Claude-Louis-Hector de Villars
  75 63 Simeon I the Great
  60 64 Louis Joseph de Bourbon, duc de Vend�me
59 73 65 Georgy Zhukov
56 61 66 Aurelian (Lucius Domitius Aurelianus)
42 41 67 Epaminondas
48 70 68 Toyotomi Hideyoshi
57 72 69 Jan III Sobieski
  103 70 Alp Arslan
50 74 71 Qi Jiguang
40 66 72 Alexius I Komnenos
75 98 73 Constantine I the Great
    74 Murad IV
37 71 75 Albrecht Wallenstein
    76 'Amr ibn al-'As
  124 77 Gerd von Rundstedt
  68 78 Aleksandr Vasilevsky
62 78 79 Robert Guiscard
65 79 80 Erwin Rommel
  80 81 Emperor Taizong of Tang (LÄ­ Sh�M�n)
    82 Muhammad of Ghor
25 62 83 Suleiman I
81 93 84 Shaka Zulu
  81 85 Baibars
    86 Vo Nguyen Giap
    87 Erich Ludendorff
67 85 88 Charlemagne
73 95 89 Fran�ois Henri de Montmorency-Bouteville (Luxembourg)
    90 Uqba ibn Nafi
79 117 91 Jebe
  96 92 David
  83 93 Lautaro (toqui)
60 77 94 Andr� Mass�na
69 86 95 Ulysses Simpson Grant
70 87 96 Kangxi
  132 97 Carl Gustav Mannerheim
94 136 98 Robert the Bruce
  150 99 Mustafa Kemal
90 118 100 James Graham, 1st Marquess of Montrose



Edited by Seko - 14-Jan-2010 at 20:35
The Top 100 Generals | Leaders



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Urungu Han View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Urungu Han Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2006 at 13:15
First is Mustafa Kemal Atatürk
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Post Options Post Options   Quote DSMyers1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2006 at 13:33
Originally posted by Urungu Han

First is Mustafa Kemal Atatürk


I had him at about 104, I think...  He was one of the best WWI generals, but even so, his career was rather short.  What reasons would you put forward for me to include him?
The Top 100 Generals | Leaders



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Post Options Post Options   Quote Gundamor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2006 at 14:05
Whats your reason for putting Nathan Forrest so high? I would put JEB stuart above him and probably put neither on this list.

Its a good list impossible to do top 100 without having some small biases. Actually ranking 100 generals is even harder
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Lmprs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2006 at 14:32
Shouldn't Sun Tzu be on a higher position?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Emperor Barbarossa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2006 at 15:23
Jan Zizka and Robert E. Lee are underrated in this list.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Illuminati Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2006 at 19:17
I definitely wouldn't put Hannibal on the number 2 spot. He was a great General, and definitely deserves to be on the list, but definitely not that high up
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Aster Thrax Eupator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2006 at 21:14

Did you include Gustavus Adolphus, the "Lion of the north" ? Napoleon Bonatparte and Carl Von Clauswitz both called him the greatest general of their time- he used artillery and cavalry to great effect. He conquered great parts of the Poland-Lituatian commonwealth in the Polish-Sweden war and was the victor of the battle of Lutzen. One of the finest commanders of the 30 years war. He is so famous that he is perhaps Sweden's national general - he has a special day for him Novemeber 6th.

Why did you also include Oda Nobunaga above Hideyoshi Tokugawa? The Japanese Edo era shogun who conquered most of Japan. Hideyoshi was a great general, but apparently Oda was better and contributed more to the unification (correct me on this, Japanese history is not my strong point) He was a pioneer in using the musket, by deploying his Ashigaru Musketeers in the "duck and reload fashion" where three lines were arranged, one fired whilst the others re-loaded. That tactic has been used by the Austrians and Prince Eugene in Italy in the war of Spanish Succession and by Welington in the napoleonic wars.

Pretty good list though- who is Jan Žižka?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote clement207 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2006 at 21:17
Don't mind me saying, Sun Tzu should be higher up on the list.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote BigL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2006 at 22:00
Alexander the great is a great tactician ,but strategically speaking no.
Same with Hannibal.
 
 
Where is Yue fei,Ran min, Zhuge liang, Khan Krum, and most importantly the tactical genius of Sun Bin.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Gundamor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2006 at 22:25
Originally posted by BigL

Alexander the great is a great tactician ,but strategically speaking no.

Same with Hannibal.

 

 

Where is Yue fei,Ran min, Zhuge liang, Khan Krum, and most importantly the tactical genius of Sun Bin.


Whats your definition of strategy? Alexander just didnt move his army across half the world on foot withought some kind of planning. He had goals that changed once ones were made. Strategy can be sometimes termed as the bridging of tactics and policy. He was pretty good at that too.


    
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Post Options Post Options   Quote clement207 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2006 at 22:42

 If he and his troops did carry on to india and he did not die at an early age. He would have conquered the world.

Imagine now we would be living under the rule of Alexander descendant.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote ataman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2006 at 23:43
Originally posted by Earl Aster

Did you include Gustavus Adolphus, the "Lion of the north" ? Napoleon Bonatparte and Carl Von Clauswitz both called him the greatest general of their time- he used artillery and cavalry to great effect. He conquered great parts of the Poland-Lituatian commonwealth in the Polish-Sweden war and was the victor of the battle of Lutzen. One of the finest commanders of the 30 years war. He is so famous that he is perhaps Sweden's national general - he has a special day for him Novemeber 6th.

Earl Aster, look at the 5th position. There is Gustavus Adolphus. BTW, these 'great parts of the Poland-Lituatian commonwealth' were in fact less than 5% of territory of PLC.
 
DSMyers1, if you have such high opinion of Gustavus Adolphus, you should add to your list Stanisław Koniecpolski - Polish hetman who fought with GA for 3 years. SK defeated GA twice (although Swedish army outnumbered the Poles in both battles) and GA wasn't able to defeat SK in any battle (although SK provoked GA to open field battles many times). 
 
Moreover SK fought and won with Tartars (the most famous is the battle  of Ochmatów 1644), Cossacks (the most famous is the battle near Kurukowo lake 1625), Ottomans (battle of Kamieniec Podolski 1633 - Koniecpolski defeated Ottomans who outnumbered him almost 3:1).


Edited by ataman - 20-Jul-2006 at 04:06
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Post Options Post Options   Quote BigL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2006 at 00:52
 
[/QUOTE]

Whats your definition of strategy? Alexander just didnt move his army across half the world on foot withought some kind of planning. He had goals that changed once ones were made. Strategy can be sometimes termed as the bridging of tactics and policy. He was pretty good at that too.


    [/QUOTE]
 
Strategy==Large scale tactics,choosing the place of the battle.
Darius chose the sites of the battles
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Majkes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2006 at 01:31
Originally posted by Earl Aster

Did you include Gustavus Adolphus, the "Lion of the north" ? Napoleon Bonatparte and Carl Von Clauswitz both called him the greatest general of their time- he used artillery and cavalry to great effect. He conquered great parts of the Poland-Lituatian commonwealth in the Polish-Sweden war and was the victor of the battle of Lutzen. One of the finest commanders of the 30 years war. He is so famous that he is perhaps Sweden's national general - he has a special day for him Novemeber 6th.

No, He didn't conquer great part of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. Only got a small part of Inflanty and could take taxes from Royal Prussia for some time. He also used the fact that we were at war with Ottomans who were much bigger threat for Poland than Gustav Adolf. He was also defeated in Poland in the Battle of Trzcina where He was injured. Of course I admit He was one of the greatest commanders of all time.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Marshal_Vauban Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2006 at 02:16
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Post Options Post Options   Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2006 at 07:16
I thin temujin was better than napolean
I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2006 at 07:23

Suleyman 1 was not a good general, Yavuz was much better than him, plus Beyazıt 1 was better than suleyman too.



Edited by Mortaza - 20-Jul-2006 at 07:24
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2006 at 07:53

1 Alexander the Great
2 Hannibal Barca
3 Napoleon Bonaparte
4 Temujin (Genghis Khan)
 
 
Hanibal was a good general but a flawed one and his strategies while extravagent didn't actually work.
 
I don't understand how its possible to not put Genghis Khan as Numero Uno, he was simply the greatest general ever in every sense.
 
The Kurultay system was a First, he would send out Spies, he had propoganda experts and wars to win over the populations, he had agents in the cities he was planning to attack, they had sophisticated battle strategies, they had decoy's, an advanced form of millitary traning. He was a quick learner and adopted advanced tactics and weapons of his enemies.
 
In other words, he single handedly set up the largest land-Empire the world has ever seen.
 
He far outdone Alex, Hanibal and Napoleon, these three cannot even be compared to Gheghiz, he's in a league of his own.
 
 
Suleyman 1 was not a good general, Yavuz was much better than him, plus Beyazıt 1 was better than suleyman too.
 
He must have been quite good, he left the Ottoman Empire with a huge land terrortory.
 
Also Babur and Saladdin would be higher up.
 
Winston Churchill? Cromwell? Nelson?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Aster Thrax Eupator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2006 at 10:04
Oh, Sorry about that with Gustavus Adolphus- i've read a little about the 30 years war, but evidently not enough! I find it a facinating period of history!
 
Also...
 
Originally posted by Gundamor

[QUOTE=BigL]

Whats your definition of strategy? Alexander just didnt move his army across half the world on foot withought some kind of planning. He had goals that changed once ones were made. Strategy can be sometimes termed as the bridging of tactics and policy. He was pretty good at that too.


    
 
I suppose what people mean BigL is that although Alexander was brilliant on the Battlefield, he could not secure his winnings as he was terrible at securing and organizing his empire once he had got it. On top of that, he was throughly despotic and autocratic in the end, and his troops frankly began to get weary when they reached Porus' elephants in India. When he declared himself a good in Afghanistan, it took the life of one of his finest friends to show this to him by Quoting from the Illiad. Alexander was by no means a fool, but his thirst for exploration and conquest that could never be quenced was just too much for the troops and his generals. He marched his troops up the Pir Sar mountain (Which, according to legand, Hercules had failed) simply because it had not been done before. He was, frankly spoilt and would not let anyone stand in his way
 
 
"Don't raise your voice - we all know how lovely it is!"
Triano, in "Mosterella" by Plautus! Read it...now!
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