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Forum LockedThe Universe

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patres123 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote patres123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Mar-2009 at 01:04

Northman....Very Interesting, good point. It is just difficult to imagine an infinite physical universe. It goes against everything we have been taught. I always think: I am in a room, this room is within a building, this building is on a campus, this campus is in Philadelphia, Philadelphia is in Pennsylvania, Pennsylvania is within the United States, The United States is within earth, the earth is in a solar system, our solar system is within a galaxy, our galaxy is within the universe. Then, it just goes on forever. It is a rather peculiar form of torture in my eyes haha. I understand that there are certain limitations to the human mind, but what about Einstein’s theory of relativity. Basically, he is saying that space and time are not constant; instead they are predicated upon location, how fast you are moving, and which direction you are moving. I look at this theory as a similar situation to our universe discussion. Einstein was thought to have been crazy. People believed even Einstein had reached a point at which education and motivation give way to limitations of the mind. But, we now know that perhaps there are no limitations to a humans mind, similar to the universe. Finally, another great thinker: When the mind is thinking it is talking to itself. Plato

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goocheslamb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Mar-2009 at 19:32
^ also you forgot its the other way too. like your are in a room, you have a brain, your brain is made up off small brian cells etc.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Briskturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Mar-2009 at 08:33
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I must say that I set in a room most of the time.  Alone.  At early morning hours - it is now 3:35 am.  I think a lot.  I'm introverted, and Agnostically Atheist.  That's my background.

I would have to believe that religion was formed by those searching for the same answers that we look for here.  I have thought much in the emptiness of night about humans and the role they play in the universe.  The universe is... believably vast, in a sense that we can apply and understand the high concepts that we impose in an attempt to explain everything we see and touch every day.  Humans are limited.  But we find ways to work around those limitations.  Such as applying color to wavelengths of light that are out of our range of sight.  Just as math can substitute all things.

As for "do we matter?"  We matter to other humans, but to the universe, not in a substantial way.  The nonexistence of humans would not bring about the destruction of the universe. The nonexistence of the milky way galaxy would be a tiny drop in the bucket.  Pop the earth out of the picture.  The sun still fuses, the stars still shine, and the other planets aren't so much as nudged from their orbits.  I'm not sure if anyone has seen the picture taken from Voyager One, but it puts us and our planet in perspective from four billion miles away.  Yes, we built a craft that has traveled four billion miles from the planet, and is still traveling.  Search for "Pale Blue Dot" to find out what I'm talking about.  These people, our scientists, are searching for planets and galaxies.  But more so, they're looking for meaning.

About the expanse of the universe.  It is a plane to which other objects can exist upon or in.  And for me it is difficult to believe that it is the end.  Because for all we know there could be another plane that the universe exists within, and so on.  That means that our universe could actually be extremely tiny.

Wherever we exist and whatever we exist upon seems so complex that it seems the very existence of anything is impossible.  That would make us, and all things, already nonexistent, yet here we are.

If you don't believe in a religion or rebirth, then you must come to terms with the fact that when you die, you will no longer exist.  You will be remembered.  But only for a generation or two.  Then, unless you did something substantial while you were alive, you will be lost to nonexistence.  Think of all of those that have come before.  Certainly more people than anyone remembers.  So one person doesn't matter in the least bit.  Even if we find one man, such as Albert Einstein, he is nothing without others to share his brilliance with. We then have to think of the human race as a whole.  The only position that I can see ourselves holding as of now is that of the observer, even though we barely have scratched the surface in that regard.  And the only ones we are observing for would be ourselves.  But if we didn't exist, who would be here to look, to see the universe and it's many, many wonders.  So if Einstein needs other people to share his brilliance, does the universe need others to exist.  And if not us then whom.  Now we can say aliens, but for now we are alone.

I guess this brings us to that old adage "If a tree falls in the woods, does it make a sound?"  Well?  Does it?


We also have to consider that we have it all wrong.  Do things "Exist?"  After all, it's only a word.  And humans created words and language.  But now i'm getting into epistology and theories on knowledge.  And that should really be covered here as well.

It's always depressing when I think of the universe or look into the night's sky.  All that space, and I'll never see any of it, my life is simply too small to count in that perspective.

And faced with the end result of nonexistence I soldier on.

It is now 4:27 am.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goocheslamb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Mar-2009 at 02:07
^ i agree with u, i think of same things all the time. thats why i created this thread.
 
The other day i was driving my car in northern canada in the dark and i could see thousands of stars. I even saw the galactic center by naked eye because it was 100% clear. To me the most amazing thing is that humans have the vision to even see these distance places by naked eye. I really dont understand how is this possible. I mean these places are so far that humans will never reach them. We can even see the Andromeda Galaxy by naked from earth, which is 2.5 millions light years away. I just have to say Wow!


Edited by Goocheslamb - 26-Mar-2009 at 02:10
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Briskturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Mar-2009 at 11:12
Our eyes are made to pick up light. So, instead, think of the energy that those stars are putting out in order for their light to reach our eyes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Northman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Mar-2009 at 14:46

Yes Goocheslamb and Briskturtle - our eyes can pick up light and we can see some rays of light from a distance of 2,5 million lightyears - or in other words, the light we see is 2,5 million years old.
So in reality, the Andromeda Galaxy does not necessarily exist today. We only know it was there 2,5 million years ago.
The (slow) speed of light put this limitation on us - we observe something that isn't necessarily so - on that account, what else do we observe that isn't - or only partly true?
And maybe important - what are we missing (to see)?
 
The speed of light has nothing to do with factual events - just how we perceive them.
Have you ever wondered what the world would look like, if we could accellerate, or slow down the speed (hessitation rather) of light?
I bet we would be quite surprised of the results - the way we perceive most events would suddenly change dramatically.

A similar problem is with our "faulty" vision. Our visual capability is like a slow camera. We see something, but if the same event is recorded with a high speed camera, producing thousands of pictures/sec, then we suddenly can see what we missed.
Example - You know how a dog is drinking - or do you?

The visible range (to the human eye) of the electromagnetic spectrum is very narrow - and leaves us with an impaired observation and understanding of the rest of the range. Just as an example, magnetism has been used through centuries, and we have learned to observe and use the effects of it. But still, we don't fully understand the nature of magnetism.

We have only defined one set/range of electromagnetic waves which practically defines everything we can and have observed.
Could there be more similar concepts that we haven't learned to observe yet - or are incapable of detecting? 
With the risk of going religious for a moment, I think it's possible there are more.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that we shouldn't exclusively rely on limited human senses and faculties in trying to understand The Universe - they cannot be trusted.



Edited by Northman - 26-Mar-2009 at 14:50
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Sagan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sagan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Apr-2009 at 02:54

watch this video by Carl Sagan http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p86BPM1GV8M

it really makes you think and is relevant to this thread

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