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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Nov-2005 at 18:03
Originally posted by Genghis Genghis wrote:

Perhaps the US doesn't have the right to be in Iraq, or El Salvador, or Latin America, etc.   That is irrelevant because we have the power to.  What type of rational state would forego the chance to exploit a situation to their advantage because they don't have the "right" to?



So then it's fine with the 9-11 attacks? They had the power to do it? What a mserable reasoning...

You will get what you have sowed.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Genghis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Nov-2005 at 21:05
Originally posted by pikeshot1600 pikeshot1600 wrote:

Originally posted by Genghis Genghis wrote:

Perhaps the US doesn't have the right to be in Iraq, or El Salvador, or Latin America, etc.   That is irrelevant because we have the power to.  What type of rational state would forego the chance to exploit a situation to their advantage because they don't have the "right" to?

"Reason of State" is a most compelling (and seductive) force.

All great powers have acted on this principle, and they will continue to do so.  Justification of such actions by publicity or propaganda are like conversation...just something that is done.  It is the order of the real world.

Yes, exactly, you are very right.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Genghis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Nov-2005 at 21:08
Originally posted by DukeC DukeC wrote:

Might doesn't make right, that was the lesson of WW II. A country can get away with trampling the rights of other nations for a while but history shows there is always a price to pay.

There's no doubt that the U.S. military had the power to invade Iraq. What they don't have is the power to impose American culture on a people whos' history goes back to the dawn of civilization.

 

How was that the lesson of World War II?  If Nazi Germany had won Europe would be thanking their German liberators for protecting them from Jewish-Bolshevism.  If the Allies had lost, we'd have been made into devils by the Germans and the Japanese for bombing their civilians and provoking the war.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Genghis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Nov-2005 at 21:13
Originally posted by Maju Maju wrote:

Originally posted by Genghis Genghis wrote:

Perhaps the US doesn't have the right to be in Iraq, or El Salvador, or Latin America, etc.   That is irrelevant because we have the power to.  What type of rational state would forego the chance to exploit a situation to their advantage because they don't have the "right" to?



So then it's fine with the 9-11 attacks? They had the power to do it? What a mserable reasoning...

You will get what you have sowed.

Again, Al Qaeda had the power to carry out 9/11 and so they did it, they are merely being rational in trying to get what they want.  Al Qaeda and the US are both rational actors with two different ends which are irreconcilable and therefore one must destroy the other, the fittest one of us will destroy the other and shape the world the way we want to, that is the order of things, it might be a miserable reasoning but at least it's accurate.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DukeC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Nov-2005 at 21:24

If you're trying to defend the Nazis I see no reason to continue this discussion as I have utter contempt for their philosophy and their actions.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DukeC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Nov-2005 at 21:31
Originally posted by Genghis Genghis wrote:

Originally posted by Maju Maju wrote:

Originally posted by Genghis Genghis wrote:

Perhaps the US doesn't have the right to be in Iraq, or El Salvador, or Latin America, etc.   That is irrelevant because we have the power to.  What type of rational state would forego the chance to exploit a situation to their advantage because they don't have the "right" to?



So then it's fine with the 9-11 attacks? They had the power to do it? What a mserable reasoning...

You will get what you have sowed.

Again, Al Qaeda had the power to carry out 9/11 and so they did it, they are merely being rational in trying to get what they want.  Al Qaeda and the US are both rational actors with two different ends which are irreconcilable and therefore one must destroy the other, the fittest one of us will destroy the other and shape the world the way we want to, that is the order of things, it might be a miserable reasoning but at least it's accurate.

I'm really starting to see why you've named yourself Genghis. The world doesn't seem to contain much grey area for you. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Genghis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Nov-2005 at 21:34

Originally posted by DukeC DukeC wrote:

I'm really starting to see why you've named yourself Genghis

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Genghis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Nov-2005 at 21:36
Originally posted by DukeC DukeC wrote:

If you're trying to defend the Nazis I see no reason to continue this discussion as I have utter contempt for their philosophy and their actions.

No, I hate the Nazis and think their ideas are flawed and evil as much as anyone, my great uncle died fighting them in France, I'm just saying that the victors write the history books.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DukeC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Nov-2005 at 21:50
Originally posted by Genghis Genghis wrote:

Originally posted by DukeC DukeC wrote:

If you're trying to defend the Nazis I see no reason to continue this discussion as I have utter contempt for their philosophy and their actions.

No, I hate the Nazis and think their ideas are flawed and evil as much as anyone, my great uncle died fighting them in France, I'm just saying that the victors write the history books.

 

That's something we have in common, my Grandfather's first cousin and best friend died in France in August 1944 fighting in Patton's 3rd. Army.

I know victors write history, that doesn't mean people forget their history. Look at what's been going on in the Bulkans. People are settling grudges that go back 500 years. I just worry that America is setting itself up for more conflict in the future by not considering the effect of its actions now.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2005 at 05:44
Originally posted by Genghis Genghis wrote:

Al Qaeda and the US are both rational actors ...





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jalisco Lancer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2005 at 11:13
Originally posted by Genghis Genghis wrote:

Originally posted by DukeC DukeC wrote:


If you're trying to defend the Nazis I see no reason to continue this discussion as I have utter contempt for their philosophy and their actions.



No, I hate the Nazis and think their ideas are flawed and evil as much as anyone, my great uncle died fighting them in France, I'm just saying that the victors write the history books.



Indeed Genghis is not supporting Nazi ideology.
He's being pragmatic
Regards Jim
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