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Forum LockedThe Question of the Russian Empire for the Ottoman Empire

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TheDiplomat View Drop Down
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    Posted: 18-Aug-2004 at 04:25

Hello,

i have a very important point.

it's a well-known fact that it was the Russian Empire and its policy that was one of the key players of the Ottoman collapse...

it was The Russian Empire,who provacated and armed as well as these Ottoman communities the most by using Orthodox identity;The Greeks,Serbs,Bulgarian and Armenians...

But when i checked the Russian population statics of 1897,i absolutely gasped in shock.Because,according to these statics,only %44.6 was the Russian in the empire at that time.so,MY QUESTION IS,while the Russian Empire were so diversified,while it had so many different comunities inside,how come they dared to provacate our communities against us???didnt they hesitate any while same policy could be used against themselves?Could the Ottoman Empire use the same tactic against the Russian Empire?

 

REGARDS



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jagatai Khan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2004 at 09:13

Quote while the Russian Empire were so diversified,while it had so many different comunities inside,how come they dared to provacate our communities against us???didnt they hesitate any while same policy could be used against themselves?Could the Ottoman Empire use the same tactic against the Russian Empire

Our rulers at that time were not clever as Russians.Also they had to fight in Balkans at that time.Balkans were the hottest zone at that time.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Yiannis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2004 at 09:29

You tend to forget that the biggest enemy of the Ottoman empire was it's inability to reform, poor economy and ... well many things that we analyzed in the past. I'll re-write the post some other time, now I have to leave and go to the stadium. Volleyball is next: Germany Vs. Russia and then Italy Vs. Brazil... :-)

 

Back to the topic, if the ottoman empire was efficient then the Russians wouldn't be able to mess with it. Bottom line? Don't blame it to the "bad foreigners". Look at your own yard (that goes to many more than the Turks. To us Greeks as well).

 

Bye now!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheDiplomat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2004 at 10:34

Here we go again.

It's  very clear that my thread is aiming dircetly the Russian Empire's imperial policy..and Ottoman Empire's counter-policy if it was able to implement this policy toward the Russian Empire....

without doubt a collapse of an empire must include many other issues..

But here we are making critics about how could The Tsar dare to pursue this imperial policy,while his country were diversified as well less or more...

 knowledge on the Russian imperial policy and the economic dconditions in the Russian empire between 1878 till 1914 needed...so we can move clearly and investigate diplomacy deeply.

 

Originally posted by TheDiplomat TheDiplomat wrote:

,only %44.6 was the Russian in the empire at that time.so,MY QUESTION IS,while the Russian Empire were so diversified,while it had so many different comunities inside,how come they dared to provacate our communities against us???didnt they hesitate any while same policy could be used against themselves?Could the Ottoman Empire use the same tactic against the Russian Empire?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2004 at 19:45

It ints later stages the Ottoman empire was like an old fat man teetering on collapse, often proped up by Britain to check Russia, but yes Yiannis is right, internal divisions and stoic attitudes hurt it most.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ptolemy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2004 at 22:21
Does that statistic include Ukranians? I forget their realtion to the Russian Orthodox Church.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lord Anatolius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Aug-2004 at 11:28

But the key point is that, Turkey had Christian minorities in Greece, Serbs, Armenians, the former two of which especially didn't like Ottoman rule. As a percentage of the population, Russia had fewer Muslims, and except for some in the Caucasus were much more loyal to Russia. Muslim areas fully within Russia, eg the area around Kazan, had been joined for 300+ years.

Also Russia had a more modern army than the Ottomans, and this showed. The ultimate example lies in how the Ottomans were decisively defeated in the 1912-13 Balkan wars and lost most of their Balkan possessesions, whereas in Russia such countries and revolts would have been put down with ease. Another factor was the greater political influence and financial resources of Russia, compared to a Turkey that was then the 'sick man' of Europe.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ihsan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Aug-2004 at 13:44

The Russian army wasn't very modern when compared with the Ottoman army; especially during the War of 1877-78.

Besides, the Ottomans tried to support the Muslims (especially Muslim Turks) under Russian rule against the Russians, mostly during WWI.

The Muslims weren't that happy under Russian rule, there were quiet a lot of rebellions in Central Asia. Don't forget the resistance in Caucassia too.

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