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Forum LockedThe origion of Urdu and Pashtu language

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    Posted: 05-Mar-2006 at 18:56
Hi.

We can talk about the origin of these two languages in this thread.
We will hopefully find the true origion of these languages here.

This is what I think.

According to wikipedia and Iran chamber society (http://www.iranchamber.com/literature/articles/lan guage_of_armies.php) I these two languages are very close to Parsi and has direct link to Iranians (Persians) in general. The language experts usually classify them as east Iranian language.

It is very clear to me that countries like Pakistan and India (Bahrain, etc.) always wanted to cover this fact that Farsi is the root of these languages. Indians who speak Urdu have no Idea at all (99%) that Urdu has Farsi elements (60% Farsi). In Pakistan situation is slightly better maybe because they share border with Iran.

What do you think about this?




Edited by cyrus
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Iranian41ife Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Mar-2006 at 19:17

well, i have an indian friend. and i once asked her the difference between pakistani's and indians.

she said that the only difference is that pakistani's are the indians of aryan descent.

so i assume that pakistani's are indo aryan and therefore in iranic people. pashtuns are mostly considered iranic, as well as afghans.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Afghanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Mar-2006 at 13:15

Pashto and Urdu are two completely different languages and both are different from Persian.

Pashto is an Eastern Iranian language and the language of Afghans which reside in Afghanistan and western Pakistan.

Urdu is an Indo-Aryan language closely related to Hindustani.  It was modified by Muslim conquerors and written in Persian script with many persian and arabic words in it.  Its base and core is still Indo-Aryan and Hindi and urdu speakers can understand each other.

A Urdu speaker can not understand a Pashto or Persian speaker or vice versa..

 

 



Edited by Afghanan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Iranian41ife Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Mar-2006 at 17:16
i disagree, i can understand afghans about 80% of the time. they have a different accent which makes it a little difficult, but their language can be understood by iranians land other iranian speaking people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gharanai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Mar-2006 at 18:00
A very nice topic and I would like to support what Afghanan said, Pashto and Urdu are two completely different languages and if you compare the pure and real pashto (ex: where one do not say "Muntakhib" but "Taakal Saawe") with persian I am sure you will agree with our words.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Afghanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Mar-2006 at 00:44

Originally posted by prsn41ife prsn41ife wrote:

i disagree, i can understand afghans about 80% of the time. they have a different accent which makes it a little difficult, but their language can be understood by iranians land other iranian speaking people.

I believe you're referring to Dari, aka Afghan Persian.

Pashto is completely different from Dari.  Dari just means darbari, or courtly language.  The original courtly language: Bactrian went extinct and the language that replaced it was none other than Parsi, aka Farsi.  Dari is the written language and Farsi is the spoken language. 

Here is a sentence in Pashto, tell me if you understand what it says:

"Da Afghan pa nang me utarluh tura"

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halevi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Mar-2006 at 05:19
Originally posted by prsn41ife prsn41ife wrote:

well, i have an indian friend. and i once asked her the difference between pakistani's and indians.

she said that the only difference is that pakistani's are the indians of aryan descent.

so i assume that pakistani's are indo aryan and therefore in iranic people. pashtuns are mostly considered iranic, as well as afghans.



I think thats a little deluded. Pakistan is a 20th c. creation, and its current demographics are largely the result of massive population exchanges (based on religion, not ethnicity) during the granting of the Indian subcontinent's indepedence from the British.

To my knowledge, Urdu and Hindi are the same language, the difference being Urdu has more borrowings from Persian and Arabic, since Muslims tended to add courtly Islamic words into their vocabulary more readily than non-Muslims.

The Hindi language family, i believe, diverged from Iranic languages quite a while ago. They are only related insomuch as they retain similar gramatical structure and share some vaguely related basic vocabulary. All the other shared vocab (ketab, zendegi/zandegi, etc) are more recent borrowings, resulting from the Mughal administration of India/Pakistan ...

Moreover, Bangladesh used to be part of Pakistan, and its ethnic and linguistic makeup (Bangla and Bengali, respectively, i think) is totally different from that of (Western) Pakistan (which is also diverse, btw... Pashtu speakers, Urdu speakers, Sikh Panjabi [interstingly from 'panj' and 'aab'... a place where five rivers meet] speakers, etc)




Edited by Halevi
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halevi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Mar-2006 at 05:21
Originally posted by prsn41ife prsn41ife wrote:

i disagree, i can understand afghans about 80% of the time. they have a different accent which makes it a little difficult, but their language can be understood by iranians land other iranian speaking people.


That's Dari, not Pashtu.

Dari Farsi and mainstream Iranian Farsi are mutually intelligible... Dari 'vavs' are pronounced as full 'waws', final heh-dochshem's are pronounced 'ah' instead of 'eh' ... Yek (1) is 'yak', etc ... the differences aren't huge.


Edited by Halevi
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gharanai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Mar-2006 at 07:04

Dear prsn4life,
I wish to know if you really have below alphabets in your (parsi) alphabets and if even you could pronounce them correctly, I am sure neither you have them in (parsi) alphabets line-up and nor could you pronounce it correctly, then how could you say that Pashtu is the same as Parsi.
I am sure you got what I ment.
I agree with Halevi, as he said that there is not much difference between Parsi and Dari, but by saying Dari, it never means Pashtu is too.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gharanai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Mar-2006 at 07:08

The extra alphabets that are used in Pashtu.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halevi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Mar-2006 at 07:10
Originally posted by Gharanai Gharanai wrote:

The extra alphabets that are used in Pashtu.



Awsome!! ... can you type out how they sound please??

PS How do you say mother / father/ brother/ water / bread / mouse / life / star in Pashtu?


Edited by Halevi
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gharanai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Mar-2006 at 14:47

Dear Halavi,
Thanks for replying.

Mother is called "Moor"
Father is called "Plaar"
Brother is called "Wror"
Water is called "Auba"
Bread is called "¤o´i"
Mouse is called "Mo×hak"
Life is called "Zhwand"
Star is called "Spo×hmi"



Edited by Gharanai


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gharanai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Mar-2006 at 14:56

Here is The Complete Alphabet List of Pashtu Language.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pakhtun_05 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Mar-2006 at 15:02
der kha gharanai rora.  Thanks for the input.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gharanai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Mar-2006 at 15:03

 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gharanai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Mar-2006 at 15:09

Gran wror pakhtun_05,
Staso da pamlarani na deer manandoa yam.
***

If anyone is interested in learning Pashtu he/she could refer to this site: http://www.cal.org/pubs/pashto_p.html



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OSMANLI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Mar-2006 at 15:51

Come on people, your leaving Urdu out of this topic

Urdu alphabet. Notice the additional charectors as well as the diffrent style as compared with Arabic


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Land of Aryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Mar-2006 at 16:04
Interesting & informative
Tnx
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halevi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Mar-2006 at 16:04
Woah. That little 'Tah' on top of some of the letters is really cool. What does it 'do'? Is it a 'fractal' or 'frictal', or whatever you call it?
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