History Community ~ All Empires Homepage


This is the Archive on WORLD Historia, the old original forum.

 You cannot post here - you can only read.

 

Here is the link to the new forum:

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Forum LockedThe most powerful Meso American culture?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Huitzilopochtli View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 04-Aug-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 83
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Huitzilopochtli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The most powerful Meso American culture?
    Posted: 14-Aug-2004 at 02:22

Excuse me if this is irritating,  I am new so if it is please forgive me.

Which do you think was the most powerful Meso American culture?(As far as conquering)

I would have to say the Inca,  basically because of their use of bronze weapons,  and their advanced abilities with forts(it is said that some of their fortifications resembled star forts of the 17th and 18th century).  They also happened to have one of the best logistics systems that the world has ever seen.

Back to Top
Mixcoatl View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 02-Aug-2004
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 4581
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mixcoatl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Aug-2004 at 05:25

Incas weren't really Meso American, but rather South American.

My vote goes for the Toltecs. Although the extent of their empire is unsure, influence of them has been from Maya territory all the way to parts of the US.

"Some argue that atheism partly stems from a failure to fairly and judiciously consider the facts"
"Atheists deny the existence of Satan, while simultaneously doing his work."

- Conservapedia
Back to Top
demon View Drop Down
Pretorian
Pretorian
Avatar

Joined: 03-Aug-2004
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 1186
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote demon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Aug-2004 at 07:16

Hey, I was going to say Toltecs first...j/k

Aztecs are pretty cool as well.  Their calenders were the most accurate until recently.

Grrr..
Back to Top
Gorkhali View Drop Down
Janissary
Janissary
Avatar

Joined: 03-Aug-2004
Status: Offline
Points: 28
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gorkhali Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Aug-2004 at 10:11

Aztecs had amazing and very fierce warriors, some of the fiercest in the world.  But from my little knowledge of Aztec history, I believe they were somewhat disunited.

They were amazing fighters though.  A Spanish officer wrote of them, "I do not know how I can write this so calmly, because some three or four soldiers who were in Italy, who were there with us, swore many times to God, that they had never seen such ferocious fighting, like those that were found between Christians and against the artillery of the King of France, or of the Great Turk; nor men like those Indians, with so much courage in closing their rank…"

(Yes, I got that from a Rise of Nations article)

Back to Top
Huitzilopochtli View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 04-Aug-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 83
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Huitzilopochtli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Aug-2004 at 22:30

Heh.......sorry I was mistaken with the Incas(I know they live in South America)  I thought the term Meso American meant Mexico central and south america. 

I would have to say the Aztecs,  At their peak they were probably more powerful than the Toltecs at their peak,  their weapons,  while ,made out of the same materials were more advanced than Toltec weapons.

Back to Top
Tobodai View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 03-Aug-2004
Location: Antarctica
Status: Offline
Points: 4321
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2004 at 14:49

Culturally, and perhaps lingiustically it was the Maya

It was Mayan calendars and astronomy that was truly advanced, and that knowledge was later exported to others.

"the people are nothing but a great beast...
I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value."
-Alexander Hamilton
Back to Top
JanusRook View Drop Down
Sultan
Sultan
Avatar
Ad Maiorem Dei Gloriam

Joined: 03-Aug-2004
Status: Offline
Points: 2424
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JanusRook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2004 at 19:44
Culturally it was the Mayans but I like the Incas just for the sole fact of if it wasn't for dynastic conflict they were the most likely native population to curb european conquest.
Economic Communist, Political Progressive, Social Conservative.

Unless otherwise noted source is wiki.
Back to Top
Tobodai View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 03-Aug-2004
Location: Antarctica
Status: Offline
Points: 4321
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2004 at 21:49
thats a good point, they actually are my favorite but I dont count them as "mesoamerican" per se
"the people are nothing but a great beast...
I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value."
-Alexander Hamilton
Back to Top
Mixcoatl View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 02-Aug-2004
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 4581
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mixcoatl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Aug-2004 at 13:31

Do you know whether the Aztecs and Inkas knew of each others existence? Did they send embassadors to each other or something like that?

"Some argue that atheism partly stems from a failure to fairly and judiciously consider the facts"
"Atheists deny the existence of Satan, while simultaneously doing his work."

- Conservapedia
Back to Top
Tobodai View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 03-Aug-2004
Location: Antarctica
Status: Offline
Points: 4321
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Aug-2004 at 14:51
truly a shame too, the Aztecs had the wheel the Inca the pack llama, if the two had met their national productiveness would hav eincreased.
"the people are nothing but a great beast...
I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value."
-Alexander Hamilton
Back to Top
Cywr View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 03-Aug-2004
Status: Offline
Points: 5952
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Aug-2004 at 14:54
Incas had wheels too, but used them for little more than children's toys.
Arrrgh!!"
Back to Top
Tobodai View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 03-Aug-2004
Location: Antarctica
Status: Offline
Points: 4321
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Aug-2004 at 23:54
well, they should have made the connection then!
"the people are nothing but a great beast...
I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value."
-Alexander Hamilton
Back to Top
Huitzilopochtli View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 04-Aug-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 83
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Huitzilopochtli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Aug-2004 at 01:51
Actually you have to wonder what the Incan empire would have been like if they made the connection and used llamas to pull carts with wheels.
Back to Top
Cywr View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 03-Aug-2004
Status: Offline
Points: 5952
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Aug-2004 at 02:09
WOuld it have been practical, i mean many of their roads traversed fairly steep mountain terrain, where pack animals made more sense.
Arrrgh!!"
Back to Top
Roughneck View Drop Down
Housecarl
Housecarl
Avatar

Joined: 02-Aug-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 192
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roughneck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Aug-2004 at 06:02
That wheel connection isn't as obvious as it looks I suspect.  OIt is to us because we all see wheels literally every day from birth and it's been that way for thousands upon thousands of years, be they cars or carts.  but I suspect the original thought was rather revolutionary.
Back to Top
Cornellia View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 02-Aug-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 474
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cornellia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Aug-2004 at 06:26

I think Cywr is right.  I remember attending a lecture where they theorized just that - that it wasn't practical because of the steep grade.  Even today, there are areas where even with improved roads, its still rather impractical to get a wheeled transport up and down the mountains.

I'll see if I can find any of the notes from that lecture. 

Felix qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas
Back to Top
Imperatore Dario I View Drop Down
Housecarl
Housecarl
Avatar

Joined: 02-Aug-2004
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 204
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Imperatore Dario I Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Aug-2004 at 11:46

Any of you guys notice that all the countries that had great ancient civilizations are today relatively poor nations?

Egypt - Ancient Egypt

Greece - Ancient Greece, Minoa

Tunisia - Carthage

China - China, Tibet

India - Indus Valley civilization, Mauryan Empire, whatever else

Mexico - Aztec civilization

Hundouras - Mayan Empire

Peru - Incan civilization

Armenia - Armenian Empire

Georgia - Georgian Kingdom

Italy - (well, compared to some European nations) Rome, Eturia, Magna Grecia(?)

Iran - Elam, Persia, Parthia, Sassanian Persia

 

I mean, wow, did any of you guys actually notice this?


“Let there be a race of Romans with the strength of Italian courage.”- Virgil's Aeneid
Back to Top
Huitzilopochtli View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 04-Aug-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 83
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Huitzilopochtli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Aug-2004 at 13:23
Also, this may be just me but it seems that before the colonization of Europe Africa was better off,  is it true or am I just misinformed?
Back to Top
Tobodai View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 03-Aug-2004
Location: Antarctica
Status: Offline
Points: 4321
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Aug-2004 at 13:46

Africa was MUCH better off befoer the Europeans came,  The argument that they were living on the dark before is BS.  Zimbabwe, Mali, Ghana, Kongo, where all organized kingdoms and Mali was arguable the wealthiest kingdom of the 15th century.  What the slave trade did was rob a continent of over 200,000,000 inhabitants and make the economies dependent on exportation.

Although Europe and African slave traders cant take all the blame, Morrocco also destroyed large libraries containing masses of knowledge and cities were lost in the Sudan.

 

Also, in response to Darios point, I think the higher you rise the harder you fall, everyone has a time in the sun, America was once a farming backwater, now a world superpower, and in the future it wont be number 1 power anymore.

"the people are nothing but a great beast...
I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value."
-Alexander Hamilton
Back to Top
Cywr View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 03-Aug-2004
Status: Offline
Points: 5952
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Aug-2004 at 15:27
I wouldn't call Italy poor, far from it, its one of the top ten economies of the world.

Quote What the slave trade did was rob a continent of over 200,000,000 inhabitants and make the economies dependent on exportation.


You mean 10 to 15 million?
Arrrgh!!"
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.047 seconds.