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Forum LockedThe most fierce tribe in N. America

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The most fierce tribe in N. America
    Posted: 07-May-2005 at 15:16
Was it the Apache, Salish, Blackfeet, coastal Tribes, Iriquois, Huron, Siox, Chumash, Aztec. Who????

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SulcataIxlude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-May-2005 at 15:34
I would say either the Comanche, or the Blackfeet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mixcoatl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-May-2005 at 16:56
Apache or Comanche

the Mayans were tough to. The conquest of Yucatán started in 1524, but not until 1697 the last Maya city (Tayasal) fell. Even then the Mayans regulary revolted against the Spanish and later the Mexicans. It was not before 1910 when the last rebels were defeated.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-May-2005 at 21:35
Does "fierce" mean just militarily sucessful or generally more brutal in behavior?  The Comanche strike me as the most natural of warriors but being captured and tortured alive for fun  Sioux-style could also be considered "fierce"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gorkhali Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-May-2005 at 16:48

I'd also say Apache or Comanche.  Not only were they amazingly successful in battle and absolutely fearless (it was said that one Apache with bow and arrows was more formidable than ten men with guns), they were also quite brutal.  These were the tribes most likely to savagely torture prisoners, there are some stories that would make any stomach turn

Geronimo, with 38 Apaches, fought so ferociously that the US government sent 1/5 of its army to capture them, along with aid from the Mexican army.

The Seminoles in Florida were also very fierce fighters.  I believe they were the only Native American nation who technically were never defeated, though they fought three wars with the U.S.  This was the only war in which the U.S. sent in its marines and navy as well as its army to fight the Seminoles.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Markolitos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-May-2005 at 18:48
if we say post conquest comanche would possibly be the fiercest, but pre conquest they werent as active, choktaw/chickasaw also very fierce! otherwise tlingits are awsome!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Anishnabe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Sep-2005 at 02:51
The answer to this question is an easy one. the most fierce tribe in
N.america was the not the lakota(dakota), the huron or the mighty six nations (Mohawk, seneca,onondaga,onieda,cayuga, tuscarora), but the only tribe to beat them all.  Although most of the battles the anishnabe fought in were from a defensive standpoint they were able to push the six nations land out of central and southern Ontario to were they are today in upstate new york. As well as push the lakota out of the some parts of minnesota. the ojibway didnt go looking for trouble but if other tribes started to encroch on there lands they were more then able to push them all back. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Sep-2005 at 09:35
Originally posted by Mixcoatl Mixcoatl wrote:

Apache or Comanche

the Mayans were tough to. The conquest of Yucatán started in 1524, but not until 1697 the last Maya city (Tayasal) fell. Even then the Mayans regulary revolted against the Spanish and later the Mexicans. It was not before 1910 when the last rebels were defeated.


Wrong: they are still in rebellion since 1994 (in Mexico). In Guatemala they were also in rebellion for most of the 70s and 80s. Yes, the Mayans are tough.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Sep-2005 at 11:44
Surely it varies throughout history. The Comache were the whipping boys of the Apache at one time, then later became the bogeymen of the Texans.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mixcoatl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Sep-2005 at 11:54
I don't think you can call the Zapatista uprising of 1994 a Maya uprising. The uprising was not an ethnic one, but a social/political one (though ethnicity plays a role in the socio-polical position of the people who joined the EZLN).
The ideology of the EZLN is rooted in socialism, it has little to do with Maya tradition or so.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jalisco Lancer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Oct-2005 at 11:54


Hi Guys:

Mayans were in continous rebellion till 20 century.
The so called Zapatista rebellion was not an ethnic clash. The Chiapas state has been in contionous turmoil not because ethnical issues. It is related to the poverty, the interests of the coffe plantation owners, the lumberjacks, the cattle owners and even religion.



However, I would like to point out that the topic stablished fiercest tribe, Mayans and Mexicas were far away to be considered a tribe at the top point of their splendour.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Oct-2005 at 14:06
Originally posted by Mixcoatl Mixcoatl wrote:

I don't think you can call the Zapatista uprising of 1994 a Maya uprising. The uprising was not an ethnic one, but a social/political one (though ethnicity plays a role in the socio-polical position of the people who joined the EZLN).
The ideology of the EZLN is rooted in socialism, it has little to do with Maya tradition or so.


EZLN, like it or not, is the armed wing of the grassroots Maya assambleary structures. There are a couple of non-Mayans in like Sup Marcos but they are not the commanders.

The uprising is social but it is definitively ethnic as well, maybe more ethnic than anything else. Another thing is that they charmed the world with their innovative assambleary discourse... but the EZLN is so far a Maya organization concerned specially with Mayan issues. Basically what they want is to rule themselves, though they also want an all-Mexico change.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote morticia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Oct-2005 at 15:42

Good Day to all:

I’d say that the Comanches (related to the Shoshones) were one of the fiercest tribes in N.A. They drove the Apaches off the southern plains and resisted the US army until late in 19th century. A smallpox epidemic (probably infiltrated by the white man - [sarcasm emphasized] took a heavy toll on them and ten years later, a cholera outbreak (probably also caused by the white man [more sarcasm intended]wiped out about half of the population.

Morty

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ydinkäyttöinen Jousipyssy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Nov-2005 at 12:05

I'd say that the fiercest tribe wasn't any plains tribe. Their tactics were quite ineffective when fighting battle-hardened woodland indians. Compare also numbers of dead whites during white-indian wars. For example Chokanen apache band of about 200 warriors(some other apaches fought at the same time too, but most whites were killed by chokanes at this time) killed 500 hundred whites in TWO MONTHS - same number of whites died during Red Clouds war, and Red Cloud had more than 1000 warriors.

I can't really say, who were the fiercest as style of warfare was very different between various tribes.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote El Cid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Nov-2005 at 13:08
I would say the sioux or the aztecs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Nov-2005 at 17:19
Originally posted by Ydinkäyttöinen Jousipyssy Ydinkäyttöinen Jousipyssy wrote:

I'd say that the fiercest tribe wasn't any plains tribe. Their tactics were quite ineffective when fighting battle-hardened woodland indians.



You're quite right. Iroquois, a matrifocal society btw, were much more effective being able to make raids even 1,000 km away from home.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ydinkäyttöinen Jousipyssy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Nov-2005 at 03:50

Iroquois:

+Iroquois raiding parties were able to make raids even 1,000 miles away from home.

+Iroquois systematically tried to conquest their neiqhbours and expand their confederacy

+Iroquois completely destroyed huron confederacy, another iroquoian speaking, but more than 10000 persons larger tribe.

+Iroquois tortured their prisoners

+Iroquois were militarily most advanced woodland indians before mid-18 century

Tlingits and Haida:

+Tlingit and Haida raiding parties were able to make raids even 1,000 miles away from home.

+Tlingits and Haida stopped russian expansion to east

+They had cannons

+Tlingits were able to successfully defend russian fort they had captured

Apaches

+Apaches were the first tribe with cavalry able to defeat conquistadores.

+Apaches lived for raiding - most of their food, tools and later clothing came from raiding

+Apaches defeated Aztecs who retreated north after fall of Tenochtitlan

+Apaches stopped Spanish invasion north.

+Apaches started war against whites in 1600 and were the last tribe to surrender.

 

These tribes were the fiercest, I think



Edited by Ydinkäyttöinen Jousipyssy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jalisco Lancer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Nov-2005 at 09:58

+Apaches defeated Aztecs who retreated north after fall of Tenochtitlan




what are you talking about ?
The Mexica empire did not reached Aridoamerica because it was nothing whortly to conquer up there.
The Mexica started their pilgrimage from Mexcaltitan , Nayarit in Western Mexico all the way to the Basin of Mexico Valley. No interaction at all with the great plains tribes.

Edited by Jalisco Lancer
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ulrich von hutten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Nov-2005 at 15:44
the haudenosaunee ,better know as iroquees ,were a strong and democrtic
society as long as hadn't any contact to the white men.these alliance out of six nations ,Mohawk ,Onondaga ,Oneida,Cayuga,Seneca and Tuscarora were living St.Lorence River to the Hudson River up to the Lake Erie. they were proud and brave ,but were totaly forced to live in reservates in different parts of the states and canada.
a memorable incident was in the ww II the people of the iroquees nation had declared the war to nazi-german ,but won't cooperate with the usa.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ydinkäyttöinen Jousipyssy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Nov-2005 at 00:04
Originally posted by Jalisco Lancer Jalisco Lancer wrote:

+Apaches defeated Aztecs who retreated north after fall of Tenochtitlan




what are you talking about ?
The Mexica empire did not reached Aridoamerica because it was nothing whortly to conquer up there.
The Mexica started their pilgrimage from Mexcaltitan , Nayarit in Western Mexico all the way to the Basin of Mexico Valley. No interaction at all with the great plains tribes.

First:I was talking about RETREATING aztecs. Apaches destroyed them.

Second:Apaches weren't plains tribe at this time. Even lipans lived quite north.

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