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Forum LockedThe modern Turkish military

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote xristar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Dec-2007 at 16:39
Reading from another site (defencenet.gr), it seems that actually by 'military units' is meant simply groups of officers, something that already exists.
Bah, I got excited for a moment there.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Batu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Dec-2007 at 19:11
whoa!! Then watch your back from friendly fire !!! :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kurt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Feb-2008 at 17:57
How does the Turkish airforce rank globally?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Feb-2008 at 05:41
Originally posted by kurt kurt wrote:

How does the Turkish airforce rank globally?
don't know globally, but it is behind Israel regionally and in front of Greece on headline numbers of similar types of equipment and has allot more older generation fighters (mainly F-4's) to give it more mass. It is strong for its neighborhood,  though any size difference with Greece for instance has to be balanced by the fact Turkey needs reserve some capability for its other borders.

..other variables like; ammo inventory size and quality, fuel reserves,  Pilot numbers and quality all make a real difference
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote xristar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Mar-2008 at 19:08
The turkish air force is relatively big, and has some decent aircraft. Since air force is a very expensive branch, you can easily guess that the big economic powers have better air forces.
A decade ago, it was stronger, but since then Turkey hasn't done much for it, and it has aged.
Now Turkey is upgrading her fleet of F-16, and is buying an additional 30 F-16. Turkey participates also in the F-35 programme.

Turkey's air force is oriented on ground attack mainly. It has more air-to-ground
weapons than Greece, and the same quality. It lacks however enough and good air-to-air weapons. It has fewer and older than Greece (and the greek air force is smaller...)
I don't know about fuel reserves.
About pilot numbers I thibnk Turkey has many of them. There is a problem though, that many pilots abandon the military to work in turkish commercial air lines, where the salaries are better.
Quality is difficult to measure. Originally (before the 1980's), the quality of the turkish pilots was poor. Today, after the cotraining with the americnas, and the constant dog fights with the greek air force, the quality has improved greatly, but is still not top. The israelis are propably better, but against other local players, such as Syria, Iran etc, the turkish pilots may have an advandage.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kafkas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Mar-2008 at 19:23
Mehmetcik-1 series to be standard issue for all troops in upcoming years


Turkish Kasirga missiles





FNSS Pars 8x8



FNSS Pars 6x6


Otokar Yavus



Otokar Cobra


MILGEM Corvette




PNS Zarrar



TUBITAK armor (Steel jacket armor piercing rounds or RPG's don't go through this composite armor. Already being used in a variety of TSK vehicles, like APC's. Resists up to 10 kg TNT)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfDi4Wg0iBg

There are more Turkish made goods being exported to many countries and many more Turkish goods currently in the designing or testing phase. It's one of the fastest growing defence industries in the world. I'll post more projects in a few days.





Edited by kafkas - 20-Mar-2008 at 19:40
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kafkas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Mar-2008 at 19:52
The overall aim of the defense industry strategy plan includes increasing locally produced defense systems to 50 percent by the end of 2010 from the current 25 percent, increasing the export of defense products and services to around $1 billion per year by 2011 from the current $200 to $300 million, and harmonizing the quality system of Turkish defense industry companies with that of the SSM quality policy by the end of 2009.

Turna Drone


Airborne Thermal Imaging and Targeting System


Aselsan STAMP



IYTE Robotik bomb defuser ($200k a unit)


Search and rescue
MRTP20 (75knts)


Aselsan anti-submarine rocket launcher:
http://www.elkongrup.com/maket/ASELSAN-03.jpg">

Developed for export to former-Soviet republics, Aselsan SA-18 Igla (Russian anti-aircraft missile) launcher and fire control system:
http://www.elkongrup.com/maket/ASELSAN-07.jpg">

T-155 Self Propelled FIRTINA Howitzer
http://img486.imageshack.us/img486/1628/frtna1is8.jpg"> http://img.blogcu.com/uploads/Defense_17-44-34_firtina01.jpg">

Other Turkish naval projects currently being designed, built, and tested at Turkish Naval docks









Edited by kafkas - 23-Mar-2008 at 06:46
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tolga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Mar-2008 at 18:10

Yassou Leonidas,

İ am Tolga from Turkey. Can i ask you a question. if you dont mind
 
Do you rely think that turkish army and gov. have wish to atack Greece, no matter what the balance of power is? İf so why do you think like that.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Mar-2008 at 04:33
Originally posted by tolga tolga wrote:

Yassou Leonidas,

İ am Tolga from Turkey. Can i ask you a question. if you dont mind
 
Do you rely think that turkish army and gov. have wish to atack Greece, no matter what the balance of power is? İf so why do you think like that.
 
 
Welcome Tolga. I try to answer any honest question with an honest answer.Smile

No i don't think they will attack, its too costly in both men and dollars.

 Though I believe the TNI will always benefit with some sort of difference between the two nations, they seem to hold the harder line on some of the foreign policy 'red lines' that makes diplomacy very hard. I don't trust the TNI leadership, not because they want to attack us, rather they have their own political agenda and will use foreign and internal threats for their own benefit.

You want to take this on to another thread?




Edited by Leonidas - 22-Mar-2008 at 04:34
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Julius Augustus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Mar-2008 at 05:11
seems turkey uses american equipment more. they have the largest army in europe right? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tolga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Mar-2008 at 11:49
Hello Room Helloo Leonidas,
 
Qwote from Leonidas:
 
"Though I believe the TNI will always benefit with some sort of difference between the two nations, they seem to hold the harder line on some of the foreign policy 'red lines' that makes diplomacy very hard. I don't trust the TNI leadership, not because they want to attack us, rather they have their own political agenda and will use foreign and internal threats for their own benefit."
 
I hear these sort of complaint from Greek people. What i hear here is similar thing to what you say.. They(Greek airforces) break red lines. There re many fanatic in Greece. They dont like turks they want to atack us.. so on... and those kind of paranoyas. Up to me that paranoyas re more pervasive in Greece.
 
The point is there re some mistrust on bot side that block all the settlement of politic frictions.
 
TNI (i think it is Turkish army) may be you think that they would like to attact Greece to satisfy their personal childish ago if they have egos like that.
 
Thats all marketing of political marketing of paranoyas and mistrusts.
 
yes attacking greece is costly, you re right but also unreasonable in any benefit.
 
World is ruled by money holders giant companies. Turkey is not an exception. If we have petrolium in egean sea. do you think we would benefit it? We have to be pedaki eksipnos
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Mar-2008 at 06:05
Originally posted by JUliusAugustus JUliusAugustus wrote:

seems turkey uses american equipment more. they have the largest army in europe right? 
mainly US with a decent dash of Israeli technology ( via munitions and upgrades). IIRC the EW suites on the f-16 fleet are British.  They are diversifying away quite smartly from those traditional sources now, pushing for more technology ownership in the more recent deals. This is to grow their own defence industry, and some how precludes the US which doesn't like sharing such things.

They have the largest army by head count and are second only to the US in NATO.

@ Tolga happy to talk, but this thread should be left alone


Edited by Leonidas - 23-Mar-2008 at 06:09
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tolga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Mar-2008 at 15:55
Hi Leonidas,
 
Happy to talk to you and benefit from your views. But before saying that would you be polite to explain why it(that treads) should be left alone Leonidas?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Mar-2008 at 02:19
Originally posted by tolga tolga wrote:

Hi Leonidas,
 
Happy to talk to you and benefit from your views. But before saying that would you be polite to explain why it(that treads) should be left alone Leonidas?
because our side conversation is about politics and can hijack what this thread is about-  the Turkish militray and its equipment. To respect the thread you need to take such other conversations elsewhere.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Julius Augustus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Mar-2008 at 07:11
Originally posted by Leonidas Leonidas wrote:

Originally posted by JUliusAugustus JUliusAugustus wrote:

seems turkey uses american equipment more. they have the largest army in europe right? 
mainly US with a decent dash of Israeli technology ( via munitions and upgrades). IIRC the EW suites on the f-16 fleet are British.  They are diversifying away quite smartly from those traditional sources now, pushing for more technology ownership in the more recent deals. This is to grow their own defence industry, and some how precludes the US which doesn't like sharing such things.

They have the largest army by head count and are second only to the US in NATO.

@ Tolga happy to talk, but this thread should be left alone


thanks leonidas, hmm, man didnt expect the Israeli additive in there but seeing how amazing the Israeli army is and their technology, couldnt agree more with Turkey's desire to combine both US and Israeli ammunition.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Mar-2008 at 01:49
the isreali conection should be no suprise, both countries have very deep and long military ties with the USA rounding out the triangle. Politics of the elected governmets of the day may use rhetoric that seems at odds with this.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tolga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Mar-2008 at 08:52

Originally posted by Leonidas Leonidas wrote:

Originally posted by tolga tolga wrote:


because our side conversation is about politics and can hijack what this thread is about-  the Turkish militray and its equipment. To respect the thread you need to take such other conversations elsewhere.

Ok leonidas, I agree with you. i think i am sensitive about politic some time

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Aug-2008 at 15:55
Originally posted by kafkas kafkas wrote:

The overall aim of the defense industry strategy plan includes increasing locally produced defense systems to 50 percent by the end of 2010 from the current 25 percent, increasing the export of defense products and services to around $1 billion per year by 2011 from the current $200 to $300 million, and harmonizing the quality system of Turkish defense industry companies with that of the SSM quality policy by the end of 2009.
its a good long term goal. It has its own risks/problems and you can never make everything -  but if planned and executed well it would be a very good outcome.

The Israeli's are the benchmark, they don't make jets but they can fit them out and arm them. Which means their stuff customize and make secure (unknown) electronically. Export quality is never as good as what the producer gets. hence that type of knowledge should be domestically driven.

anyway along these lines i came across this announcement which I wanted to post. The South Korean relationship seems to be deepening. Its still sketchy but when these things roll out I will look forward to comparing this to the Greek Leopards 2A6's as well as costs differences.

A prototype of South Korea’s indigenously-developed XK2 main battle tank during its official presentation in March 2007. (Korean MoD photo)
Quote
Korea Signs $400 Million Contract with Turkey on Transfer of Tank Technology

(Source: Korea Overseas Information Service; issued July 30, 2008)
The Defense Acquisition Program Administration said Wednesday (July 30) that Korea has signed a $400 million deal with Turkey to help develop a new tank by 2015, using over 50 percent of Korea's indigenous technology on the armored vehicle.

The deal was signed between Korean tank manufacturer Hyundai Rotem and Turkish carmaker Otokar in a ceremony attended by Korean Defense Minister Lee Sang-hee and Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan in Ankara.

The contract also includes the transfer of technology owned by Korea's state developer, the Agency for Defense Development (ADD), according to the Korean defense procurement office.

The contract is very significant in that Korea is now exporting not only defense goods, but also defense technology, the defense procurement office said in a media release.

Korea competed against Germany for the $400 million project to help develop Turkey's new main battle tank, which will be the country's first-ever indigenous tank, according to the defense procurement office. Turkey plans to produce some 200 units of the next generation tank, provisionally named Turkey National Main Battle Tank, upon completion of its development.

Turkey is one of the largest purchasers of Korean defense articles and is set to buy some $100 million worth of weapons, including 155mm self-propelled artillery, from Korea this year alone, according to the defense procurement office.

Korea developed its first indigenous tank, the K-1, in 1988 and is set to replace the main battle tank with the next generation K-2 tanks starting 2010.

Seoul exported some $850 million worth of defense articles last year, with the export expected to grow to over $1 billion this year for the first time in history, the defense procurement office said in the media release.


(EDITOR’S NOTE: Korean press reports say that South Korea will transfer key technologies regarding engine, gunnery and snorkeling systems to Turkey, which initially wants to build about 250 advanced main battle tanks, totaling about 60% of the technology required to build the Turkish tanks. Turkey will develop a fire control system on its own.
Korea’s $400 million technology transfer fee includes production costs for four prototype tanks and components, and expenses for about 20 Korean engineers seconded to Turkey for the program.)

link


and more on it here

Quote
The US$400 million deal includes the costs of producing four prototypes and fees for the transfer of technology. "It is significant in that we are not only exporting defense articles, but we are also exporting our advanced technology," the DAPA said. "This was made possible as the Turkish government recognized the superiority of our advanced technology accumulated from our abundant experience of developing and producing tanks, which also proves that our defense technology has come to one of the highest levels in the world."




Edited by Leonidas - 02-Aug-2008 at 15:58
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Władysław Warnencz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Aug-2008 at 12:54
Originally posted by Yiannis Yiannis wrote:

Just imagine if this money would be invested in national health, education/research, public infrastructure etc instead in useless heaps of metal!!!
 
Angry
 
You woun't be saying this when the Aliens attack. LOL We need to have armies and wage wars if we want to rule the galaxy one day. Cool
 
 
And about the turkish military - can someone tell me how big exactly the turkish army is,because i keep finding different data on the subject?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote xristar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Sep-2008 at 20:05
Originally posted by Władysław Warnencz Władysław Warnencz wrote:

 And about the turkish military - can someone tell me how big exactly the turkish army is,because i keep finding different data on the subject?

I think noone knows really.
The turkish military is more than just military, as it has many civilian services (banks, factories, restaurants ect). In general it uses a vast amount of personnel (around 1 million). How however this personnel is divided among the various branches of the turkish I don't know exactly. The army per se has some 440,000 men active strength.

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