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Forum Lockedthe extend of Jewish influence

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    Posted: 20-Apr-2009 at 09:30
 
 
Any discussion on Jewry quickly turns to suspicion of anti-Semitic,why is it a such sensitive subject.
 
Do any of you feel it's the most protected ethnicity today ?
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maharbbal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Apr-2009 at 12:24
JEWS ARE NOT AN ETHNICITY!!!! Why would they be more protected than any one else? Last time I've checked antisetism was rampant in many countries in the world.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Yugoslav Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Apr-2009 at 15:15
Well, this thread started nicely...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Apr-2009 at 16:25
Wall Street bankers are currently the most protected group in the world.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Apr-2009 at 00:34
Quote Any discussion on Jewry quickly turns to suspicion of anti-Semitic,why is it a such sensitive subject.

Because there are a lot of over-sensitive Jews in positions where they can make alot of noise.

Plus the Israeli lobby (regardless of religion) use the charge far too liberally. They'd have opposing the state of Israel considered racism if they could (in some places they pretty well have).

Being over-protected is only one step away from being villified, so I don't think that this is positive for anyone in the long run.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Apr-2009 at 04:20
Originally posted by Yugoslav Yugoslav wrote:

Well, this thread started nicely...


***Sigh***
Agreed. I predict... my interest in this thread dies after this post.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Apr-2009 at 09:28
Unlike many troublesome minorities today and in the past, the only thing the Jews ever did to warrant their persecution was being above average successful as a group, and to inspire envy as a defenseless minority is a dangerous thing. This is why you find their security is ever ambiguous; one moment they are patronized and protected by those in power, the next they are persecuted by those very same people. Likewise with Israel, whose domineering position was and is secured with Western support. If the protecting hand was to be withdrawn the position of the Jews would once more be compromised. I suspect the anxiety caused by this uncertain existence is what moves many Jews to cry out at the slightest criticism and demand to be inviolable.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mamikon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Apr-2009 at 14:42
Originally posted by Reginmund Reginmund wrote:

Unlike many troublesome minorities today and in the past, the only thing the Jews ever did to warrant their persecution was being above average successful as a group, and to inspire envy as a defenseless minority is a dangerous thing. This is why you find their security is ever ambiguous; one moment they are patronized and protected by those in power, the next they are persecuted by those very same people. Likewise with Israel, whose domineering position was and is secured with Western support. If the protecting hand was to be withdrawn the position of the Jews would once more be compromised. I suspect the anxiety caused by this uncertain existence is what moves many Jews to cry out at the slightest criticism and demand to be inviolable.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote edgewaters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Apr-2009 at 15:36
Originally posted by Reginmund Reginmund wrote:

Unlike many troublesome minorities today and in the past, the only thing the Jews ever did to warrant their persecution was being above average successful as a group, and to inspire envy as a defenseless minority is a dangerous thing. This is why you find their security is ever ambiguous; one moment they are patronized and protected by those in power, the next they are persecuted by those very same people. Likewise with Israel, whose domineering position was and is secured with Western support. If the protecting hand was to be withdrawn the position of the Jews would once more be compromised. I suspect the anxiety caused by this uncertain existence is what moves many Jews to cry out at the slightest criticism and demand to be inviolable.

I think the basic problem that the Jewish culture has is that it frames a narrative which defines them as exceptional. This exceptionalism goes far beyond that of garden-variety identities; it is exceptionally exceptional!

This is a historical product. It was necessary to define a portable identity that might resist assimilation to preserve the culture. I imagine it germinated in Babylon, and was fully developed with the Diaspora.

Anti-semitism, on the other hand, is not a historical product. It is rampant in Japan and China, for instance, groups that have no particular history with Jewish culture. Anti-semitism is purely a reaction to the Jewish narrative; every anti-semitic narrative that has ever existed contains within it an acceptance of the Jewish narrative of exceptionalism, it just turns the othering of that narrative on its head. They say they are different than every other group, unique among minorities - and their detractors always agree.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Apr-2009 at 15:56
Hello Regi
 
I am afraid I have to disagree. The average Russian jew of the 19th century was no better than the average Russian peasant yet Russia had the worst anti-semitic purges since the inquisition. Jews in America on the other hand enjoyed far more power and influence than their actual size yet there were scarcely any anti-semitic purges even during the Jim Crow era and by the way many jewish businessmen made their fortunes in the KKK controlled south.
 
As for their influence, well the worked to gain it and they have all the right to exploit their gain.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Apr-2009 at 16:10
The Jewish influence in the origin of the Spanish language and literature is something that fascinates me. I wonder if the love for books and that free-thinker attitude of many educated Spanish and Hispanic people has its roots in the way converses rebealed against the narrow minds of the times of Inquisition.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Apr-2009 at 18:01
Quote Reginmund
Unlike many troublesome minorities today and in the past, the only thing the Jews ever did to warrant their persecution was being above average successful as a group, and to inspire envy as a defenseless minority is a dangerous thing. This is why you find their security is ever ambiguous; one moment they are patronized and protected by those in power, the next they are persecuted by those very same people. Likewise with Israel, whose domineering position was and is secured with Western support. If the protecting hand was to be withdrawn the position of the Jews would once more be compromised. I suspect the anxiety caused by this uncertain existence is what moves many Jews to cry out at the slightest criticism and demand to be inviolable.


Actually this is far from the truth.

Jewish minorities today and in the past have been no more or less troublesome than other minorities. A minority is not troublesome because of their "ethnicity", its due to socio-economic issues. 

The Jewish communities in Europe and Russia were not all well educated and wealthy. In Russia the Jewish community had a long history being involved in crime and organised crime.

The reason Jews are associated with being rich and involved with money is that the Catholics wouldn't deal with interest and ursuries so used Jews to do the job for them, this gave the minority an access to banking in Europe.

The reasons for anti-semitism mainly stem from Europe and is an age old problem, one of the key reasons is some Christian leaders viewing Jews as the traitors. Anti-semitism spread to other regions relatively late, mostly in the last century and since the creation of Israel.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote es_bih Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Apr-2009 at 18:45
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim Omar al Hashim wrote:

Quote Any discussion on Jewry quickly turns to suspicion of anti-Semitic,why is it a such sensitive subject.
Because there are a lot of over-sensitive Jews in positions where they can make alot of noise. Plus the Israeli lobby (regardless of religion) use the charge far too liberally. They'd have opposing the state of Israel considered racism if they could (in some places they pretty well have). Being over-protected is only one step away from being villified, so I don't think that this is positive for anyone in the long run.
Quite effective, too. There hasn't been an American President for example, that didn't announce his "support" of Isreal in a while.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Apr-2009 at 19:50
Originally posted by Al Jassas Al Jassas wrote:

Hello Regi
 
I am afraid I have to disagree. The average Russian jew of the 19th century was no better than the average Russian peasant yet Russia had the worst anti-semitic purges since the inquisition. Jews in America on the other hand enjoyed far more power and influence than their actual size yet there were scarcely any anti-semitic purges even during the Jim Crow era and by the way many jewish businessmen made their fortunes in the KKK controlled south.
Which definitely led to some anti-Jewish feeling there, which broke out for instance in the case of the 1913 Atlanta murder of Mary Phagan and the lynching of her Jewish boss Leo Frank.
 
Mind you, Frank was a Jew and a Northerner, which had a multiplier effect.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-May-2009 at 09:03
Originally posted by Bulldog Bulldog wrote:





The reason Jews are associated with being rich and involved with money is that the Catholics wouldn't deal with interest and ursuries so used Jews to do the job for them, this gave the minority an access to banking in Europe.



Totally agreed.

In Thessaloniki most of the Jewish Population were labourers or in other type of "manual" jobs. Compared to the entire population, only a small part was literate until the 19th century ( i am not sure about the early 20th though).



Edited by Spartakus - 05-May-2009 at 09:04
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