History Community ~ All Empires Homepage


This is the Archive on WORLD Historia, the old original forum.

 You cannot post here - you can only read.

 

Here is the link to the new forum:

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Forum LockedThe Downfall of Western Societies ?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12
Author
vulkan02 View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar
Termythinator

Joined: 27-Apr-2005
Location: U$A
Status: Offline
Points: 1840
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vulkan02 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Aug-2006 at 11:49
It all depends on how many acres per person is wasted. If everyone today lived as Americans you would need about three planet earths to support that lifestyle. Generally though scientists believe that around 10 billion people is where the critical population is. We could reach this number with the current growth at around 2030 so yes we are very near it.
The beginning of a revolution is in reality the end of a belief - Le Bon
Destroy first and construction will look after itself - Mao
Back to Top
docyabut View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 11-Jan-2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 528
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote docyabut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Aug-2006 at 08:48

 qoute-The main worry is not about Asia or whoever that rise to dominence in world politics and economy, but the depletion of natural resources.

We may all be dead from famine & diseases before we even decide who's calling the shot.
 
 
The Downfall of Western Societies .
 
 
The US will go on , when the world dries up from gobal warming , the  US has the largest supply of fresh water in the world, the great lakes, 100 dollars a barrel?Smile  
Back to Top
The Philosopher View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar

Joined: 08-Sep-2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 121
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Philosopher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Sep-2006 at 16:59
i believe that docyabut might be correct, i mean, with this bird flue a recent threat, it is only possible that a strand of a virus would show up and we would not be able to stop it, or create a vaccine. that would truly be frightening.
Back to Top
Reginmund View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar

Joined: 08-May-2005
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 1941
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Oct-2006 at 15:32
Let's make one thing clear though; the rise of certain Asian economies does not necessarily cause a corresponding decline in Western economies, far from it. I believe the West can be just as strong without keeping the rest of the world on a short leash, it's just these years of dominance that has made us into control freaks, which causes us to suffer a neurosis of fear of what might happen when we can no longer influence every development abroad. Who knows, it might even work out for the best. Don't panic over economic fluctuations like those causing unemployment in Germany, these problems have come and gone since the advent of industrialism.

As for some "moral decline", this kind of bologs pours out of intellectuals of every age when they attempt to explain whatever developments they don't appreciate in one fell stroke of far-reaching generalization.
Hwæt! wē Gār-Dena in geār-dagum,
þeod-cyninga, þrym gefrunon,
hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon.
Back to Top
pinguin View Drop Down
Editorial Staff
Editorial Staff
Avatar

Joined: 29-Sep-2006
Location: Chile
Status: Offline
Points: 7508
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Oct-2006 at 14:22
The West has always beein in peryl of decline. It was invaded since the beginning by the barbarians, and once in a while by middle easterns and also berbers. It lost lot of battles. It has suffered terrible dissasters like the Black Death that killed 1/3 of its population.
 
But the West always fight back.
 
Today, most of the people on the planet speak a western language (English, Spanish, Portuguese, French..), or write in Latin characters. Most wear Western clothes and use Western technologies. 1/3 are Christians, which is the religion of the West.
 
I really believe the West is thougher that people usually think. The weakness it always presents to the outsiders (and some insiders) is nothing more than an ilussion.
 
Pinguin
 
Back to Top
Vivek Sharma View Drop Down
Samurai
Samurai
Avatar

Joined: 22-Aug-2006
Status: Offline
Points: 1776
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivek Sharma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Oct-2006 at 03:23
Originally posted by Kalevipoeg Kalevipoeg wrote:



The only threat to the West is that it is going to be overrun by Asia,

Asians are too divided for the run over effect to take place, while europe is uniting.

in physical numbers(population) and also in economic influence and power.

In totality (total values), it may be so, but in terms of percapita numbers, they would still be equals for a long time.

The West is holding its old-time power and glory

Not the old time power & glory, that was with the Asians, more proper term would be mid time power & glory.


while Asia is rapidly gaining more and more power and glory.

A resurgence

I wouldn't mind an Asian dominated world in some way, they have always been the smartest of us all.

They have not been the samrtest, just a bit older, age is independent of the brain or its ability






Back to Top
pinguin View Drop Down
Editorial Staff
Editorial Staff
Avatar

Joined: 29-Sep-2006
Location: Chile
Status: Offline
Points: 7508
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Oct-2006 at 00:37
Actually, what we are living is the end of the West, but also of the East, and of the North-South division, too.
 
Today Japan has millions of non-Japaneses in its territory, Europe is receiving lots of people from overseas. There are millions of Europeans and Asians in Africa. The Americas are a melting pot of many peoples.
 
People fly all over the globe. A player scores in the U.S. and people jump to celebrate in China.
 
Languages are dying, and most people is becoming bilingual English-something.
 
The literatures are melting. Today, to know classics does not mean to know the Iliad, the Odissey and the Divine Comedy. One also needs to know something about the Tao-Te-King, the Vedas, the Sundiata, Garcia Marquez, and many other things.
 
History is becomming the record of the past of mankind.
 
In short, the age of the isolated civilizations is gone.
 
In that sense the Western Civilization is already death.
 
Long life to the Global civilization.
 
Pinguin
 
Back to Top
King Kang of Mu View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
(Foot)Balling DJ from da Eastside

Joined: 23-Mar-2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1022
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote King Kang of Mu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Oct-2006 at 08:47
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Actually, what we are living is the end of the West, but also of the East, and of the North-South division, too.
 
Today Japan has millions of non-Japaneses in its territory, Europe is receiving lots of people from overseas. There are millions of Europeans and Asians in Africa. The Americas are a melting pot of many peoples.
 
People fly all over the globe. A player scores in the U.S. and people jump to celebrate in China.
 
Languages are dying, and most people is becoming bilingual English-something.
 
The literatures are melting. Today, to know classics does not mean to know the Iliad, the Odissey and the Divine Comedy. One also needs to know something about the Tao-Te-King, the Vedas, the Sundiata, Garcia Marquez, and many other things.
 
History is becomming the record of the past of mankind.
 
In short, the age of the isolated civilizations is gone.
 
In that sense the Western Civilization is already death.
 
Long life to the Global civilization.
 
Pinguin
 
well the global civ you speak of might be just a system of western civ applied unjustly often forcefully on global scale to benefit the west.  Trust me, if the people of this planet really can have the global civ they want, it would not be looking like the one you are looking at.   
I believe I am a reflection, like the moon on water. When you see me, and I try to be a good man, you see yourself.
- from 'Kundun'

www.ted.com
Back to Top
pinguin View Drop Down
Editorial Staff
Editorial Staff
Avatar

Joined: 29-Sep-2006
Location: Chile
Status: Offline
Points: 7508
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Oct-2006 at 11:47

I dissagree.

I believe people has to realize the West is not evil nor saint. You can't judge only the negative part of it and forget the possitives. I agree many people suffered with the expansion of the West, however, the legacy of that expansion is alive today throughout the world.
 
Some of the heritage is:
 
(1) Pick a map of the world you will notice that most people of Europe, the Americas, Subsaharan Africa, India, Australia, New Zealand and the Pacific speak one Indoeuropean language, particularly: Spanish, Portuguese, French or English. Besides, the lingua franca of the world is English.
 
(2) The most spread writing system in the world is alphabetic, and in there the most important is the Latin script.
 
(3) Modern science and engineering was developed by the West. Even today, most of the knowledge come from the West.
 
(4) Modern arts, including music (both classical and pop), painting (classical and abstract), drawing (traditional, cartoons, anime), architecture (traditional, modern), literature, theatre and movies, are all mainly western based.
 
(5) Christian religion, in all its forms: Orthodox, Catholic, Protestant, etc., is the more widespread religion in the planet. And Jesus is more famous than the Beatles.
 
(6) Military strategies, formations and technology were mainly developed in the West.
 
(7) Most of the most outstanding achievements of the 20th century, the conquest of the pole, flying, the deepest immersion, the conquest of space and the landing on the moon were done by Westerners, and also the most remarkable achievements in Physics and Mathematics.
 
Some merits have the west after all, and that's why its influence is feel worldwide, and will be perceived in the centuries to come.
 
Pinguin 
 
 
 
 
Back to Top
Siege Tower View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 28-Aug-2006
Location: Edmonton,Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 578
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Siege Tower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Oct-2006 at 11:58
call me Childish, but nothing's forever, i dont think anyone have predicted the downfall of Rome, or Han
Back to Top
pinguin View Drop Down
Editorial Staff
Editorial Staff
Avatar

Joined: 29-Sep-2006
Location: Chile
Status: Offline
Points: 7508
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Oct-2006 at 21:33
Yes. But the syndrome of the fall of the West is part of Western mentality since its beginning. The west has always beeing falling down, during Greek times, Rome, during the Black Death, WWI and WWII, etc. The West has always being in the edge, close to collapse. However, somehow it has managed to survive.
 
I believe it will continue to do so. That's just faith.
 
Pinguin
 
 
Back to Top
Omar al Hashim View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 05-Jan-2006
Location: Snowy-Highlands
Status: Offline
Points: 5725
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Oct-2006 at 21:45
Quote And Jesus is more famous than the Beatles

Yet the beatles infamously said they were more popular.
Quote (1) Pick a map of the world you will notice that most people of Europe, the Americas, Subsaharan Africa, India, Australia, New Zealand and the Pacific speak one Indoeuropean language, particularly: Spanish, Portuguese, French or English. Besides, the lingua franca of the world is English.

Leaving all the Arabs, 1.3 billion people in South Asia, 1.6 billion in East Asia, all of Russia and all of South East Asia, not speaking a European language.
Quote
(2) The most spread writing system in the world is alphabetic, and in there the most important is the Latin script.

Which explains why over half the world doesn't use latin script.
Quote 1/3 are Christians, which is the religion of the West.

Actually Christianity is middle eastern.
Quote Yes. But the syndrome of the fall of the West is part of Western mentality since its beginning. The west has always beeing falling down, during Greek times, Rome, during the Black Death, WWI and WWII, etc. The West has always being in the edge, close to collapse. However, somehow it has managed to survive.

The roman empire being the exampe in case.
"O Byzantines! If success is your desire and if you seek right guidance and want your empire to remain then give the pledge to this Prophet"
~ Heraclius, Roman Emperor
Back to Top
Constantine XI View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar
Lord of Hut River Province Principality

Joined: 01-May-2005
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 5711
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Oct-2006 at 22:12
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim Omar al Hashim wrote:

(1) Pick a map of the world you will notice that most people of Europe, the Americas, Subsaharan Africa, India, Australia, New Zealand and the Pacific speak one Indoeuropean language, particularly: Spanish, Portuguese, French or English. Besides, the lingua franca of the world is English.

Leaving all the Arabs, 1.3 billion people in South Asia, 1.6 billion in East Asia, all of Russia and all of South East Asia, not speaking a European language.


But the point made, that virtually the entire New World is linguistically the child of four European languages, hold true. English is the language of commerce, and we live in a capitalist world.

Originally posted by Omar al Hashim Omar al Hashim wrote:


1/3 are Christians, which is the religion of the West.

Actually Christianity is middle eastern.


Middle Eastern in origin, though truly modern Christianity has been adapted to Western culture. As early as the split in the Roman Empire, Catholicism moved away from the more mystical, eastern focus of the religion towards a more legalistic focus typical of the West Roman tradition of law and social order.

Originally posted by Omar al Hashim Omar al Hashim wrote:


Yes. But the syndrome of the fall of the West is part of Western mentality since its beginning. The west has always beeing falling down, during Greek times, Rome, during the Black Death, WWI and WWII, etc. The West has always being in the edge, close to collapse. However, somehow it has managed to survive.

The roman empire being the exampe in case.


The institution of a centralised Empire in the West under the command of Italians may have vanished in the 5th century, but truly Rome survived in a number of forms. Byzantium stayed alive for another thousand years and contributed its learning and culture back into the West, Roman theological organisation persists to this day, Roman law persists in all European nations aside from England (and even there it has considerable influence), Roman urbanisation and public works continued after Roman imperial power ended and provided the impetus for further progress in many nations of the former Western Empire.

Rome only ever fell as a political entity, she was a mere component of Western civilisation, not its total embodiment. The West continued after Rome, built upon its strengths and came back stronger than ever once it recovered from the barbarian attacks.

Originally posted by Omar al Hashim Omar al Hashim wrote:


And Jesus is more famous than the Beatles

Yet the beatles infamously said they were more popular.


Let's wait a couple of thousand years and see what their popularity is like then Wink.


Edited by Constantine XI - 21-Oct-2006 at 23:15
It is not the challenges a people face which define who they are, but rather the way in which they respond to those challenges.

Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.227 seconds.