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Forum LockedThe Dinosaur vs. Thread!!!!!

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Count Belisarius View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Count Belisarius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Aug-2008 at 00:06
Thats why I think the tylosaur would lose because it would have to surface to get air.   


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darius of Parsa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Aug-2008 at 02:43
Originally posted by Count Belisarius Count Belisarius wrote:

Thats why I think the tylosaur would lose because it would have to surface to get air.   


Whales can hold their breath to lengths up to an hour. Large marine reptiles such as Tylosaurus could probably do the same.

Spinosaurus lived in swampy environments and specialized in eating fish and smaller aquatic and semi-aquatic creatures. Land creatures may have been a part of their diet, but it is still being debated. Similar to the hyena, raptors could attack animals many times the size of themselves. I am on the raptors' side, but anything is possible in the Animal Kingdom.





Edited by Darius of Parsa - 04-Aug-2008 at 02:43
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Count Belisarius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Aug-2008 at 03:56

And megalodon subsisted primarily on whale, and spinosaurs amy have hunted in packs 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Afghanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Aug-2008 at 18:09
There is a new article out on the Megalodons biting power:
 
"Megalodon is predicted to bite down with a force of between 10.8 to 18.2 tonnes"
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheARRGH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Aug-2008 at 19:51
Originally posted by Afghanan Afghanan wrote:

  I dont think it makes a difference if they are Velociraptors or Deinonychus, they will all still lose.
 


Utahraptors, perhaps?

At 21 feet long and six feet tall, a full-grown Utahraptor is somewhere in the region of half the size of a spinosaurus, and given that we're assuming a full pack vs. ONE spinosaur...

Utie's win. Claws down.

Anything smaller, though...the claws simply wouldn't be LONG enough to actually pierce any vital organs on a full-grown Spinosaurus.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Count Belisarius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Aug-2008 at 15:05
What if there were two spinosaurs?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darius of Parsa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Aug-2008 at 15:39
A large theropod such as Spinosaurus would have a large hunting ground of a few square kilometers, much like Tyrannosaurs.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheARRGH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Aug-2008 at 17:13
Originally posted by Darius of Parsa Darius of Parsa wrote:

A large theropod such as Spinosaurus would have a large hunting ground of a few square kilometers, much like Tyrannosaurs.  


Hence, most of the time there'd be no such thing as two Spinosaurs in the same area.


...Well, unless they're mating.

I think any pack of raptors would give that one a pass. Two interrupted Spinosaurs would be hell to mess with.

What about Tyrannosaurus vs. Spinosaurus?

Tyrannosaur (probably) had the advantage of a stronger bite and better binocular vision; Spinosaurus was just plain bigger.
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But the spinosaur had bigger arms, and Lord knows how much bite pressure, and we don't know how good the spinosaur's vision was, and spinosaurs may have stayed together until their offspring could take of themselves, and so then you have two spinosaurs defending their eggs or if the offspring are big enough to join in the fight.... You do the math.      


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheARRGH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Aug-2008 at 19:55
Originally posted by Count Belisarius Count Belisarius wrote:

But the spinosaur had bigger arms, and Lord knows how much bite pressure, and we don't know how good the spinosaur's vision was, and spinosaurs may have stayed together until their offspring could take of themselves, and so then you have two spinosaurs defending their eggs or if the offspring are big enough to join in the fight.... You do the math.      


The Spinosaur's prey generally doesn't seem to have included very big stuff, which doesn't lend much credence to any idea that it had huge amounts of bite pressure, and it's eyes were on either side of it's skull in a configuration that doesn't look to good for clear, focused, forward vision. And we're assuming one on one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Count Belisarius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Aug-2008 at 22:33
The spinosaur would still win, bigger claws and arms, and no one really knows for sure how much bite pressure they had, and it also depends on the terrain, and how smart each theropod was, and the terrain, the climate, and each theropod's hunting techniques.     

Edited by Count Belisarius - 05-Aug-2008 at 22:34


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheARRGH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Aug-2008 at 23:01
Originally posted by Count Belisarius Count Belisarius wrote:

The spinosaur would still win, bigger claws and arms, and no one really knows for sure how much bite pressure they had, and it also depends on the terrain, and how smart each theropod was, and the terrain, the climate, and each theropod's hunting techniques.     


Just being nitpicky here, but I like how you say "the Spinosaur would still win" and then go and say "it depends on the terrain, climate, and hunting techniques."

...No offense meant. I just enjoy irony.

Anyways--the best evidence of spinosaur diet was the fossilized remains of fish inside a Baryonyx skeleton (not the exact same species as an actual Spinosaurus, but they were incredibly closely related, the Spinosaurus was mostly just bigger and had the full sail). This (along with the Spinosaur's conical rather than serrated teeth) suggests a predator adapted to fishing, although it would probably have to function similarly to a modern bear--scavenging and taking small-to-medium prey--in order to survive. Probably couldn't have JUST fished. It's non-forward-pointing eye sockets bear out the image of a opportunistic scavenger and fisher that did not need to actively hunt land prey.


The T-Rex had binocular eye sockets, suggesting an active predator. Certainly a scavenger as well (like all good predators--never pass up a free meal), a hypothesis borne out by very large nasal passages in the skull--smell is essential for a scavenger. It had teeth designed for crunching bone and a broad snout made to tear the maximum amount of meat away per bite, coupled with arms that were short, but surprisingly strong according to bone structure analyses (probably to hold onto struggling prey) suggest a creature that actively hunted prey, which (given skeletons found with Tyrannosaur bite injuries) quite possibly included Edmontosaurus (43 feet long, around 4 tons) and triceratops (26-29 feet long, up to 12 tons).

What all this means is that Tyrannosaurs likely hunted and ate larger and more resistant prey than Spinosaurs, although (obviously) we may never know for sure. Hence, a tyrannosaur would (assuming the above facts as generally true), be more suited for a theropod-on-theropod combat due to a diet of large, powerful prey and the mental and physical traits suited to that lifestyle.

Spinosaurus is bigger, but since when has that made all the difference in nature?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Count Belisarius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Aug-2008 at 00:08
Size has it's place didn't you see jurassic park three?, and we don't know the hunting techniques of either one, and we don't know how smart they were.  


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Originally posted by Count Belisarius Count Belisarius wrote:

Size has it's place didn't you see jurassic park three?


Yes. And a Steven Spielberg movie is really not the best source for Theropod capabilities.

Since we'll never know how smart either was, and can only extrapolate their hunting techniques based on physical characteristics, the point is moot. Give me a reason to believe that ten extra feet would be enough to outdo a body (and presumably, mind) evolved largely to fight things nearly as big to bigger than it was.

A fully-grown triceratops could actually be heavier than a Spinosaurus, even if it wasn't quite as tall or as long. T-Rex probably hunted cerries (even if they weren't it's first choice of prey). Give me a physical reason to believe Spinosaurus' ten extra feet and 2.4 extra tons (above a tyrannosaur) meant so very much more than a Triceratops' massive horns and 4.5 extra tons.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Count Belisarius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Aug-2008 at 04:23
The spinosaur has bigger arms and was probably stronger and more agressive, and it had bigger claws, and three claws on it's hand's, unlike the tyrannosaur's two.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darius of Parsa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Aug-2008 at 04:44
Spinosaurus was a fish-eater, not a dinosaur predator. It simply lacked the experience needed to take down another dinosaur in a fight.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheARRGH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Aug-2008 at 04:52
Originally posted by Darius of Parsa Darius of Parsa wrote:

Spinosaurus was a fish-eater, not a dinosaur predator. It simply lacked the experience needed to take down another dinosaur in a fight.


Well, I'm not sure about lacking the experience; it probably took down some land prey when it couldn't just scavenge or fish. But generally, it probably didn't take down very big things. Not Hadrosaurs, Ceratopsians, etc.

If it went up against an Ornithomimus, sure. But it wasn't really built for large prey--and large prey was the Tyrannosaur's game.

Also, Count Belisarius--where does the "More Aggressive" come from? It wouldn't have much reason to get into fights...most predators don't. If you're an herbivore, your prey doesn't try to get away. But a predator can't afford to be badly injured, because it needs to be in top shape just to get the "10% of hunts successful" margin. Granted, it might be more ornery because it hunted less and fished/scavenged more, but still; we can't know that it was more aggressive.

In addition, since the main method of attack for every large Theropod was it's bite, the arms wouldn't be that important. They were mostly there to hold onto prey, not to kill it. That's what the teeth are for.
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Says who?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darius of Parsa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Aug-2008 at 04:53
Originally posted by Count Belisarius Count Belisarius wrote:

The spinosaur has bigger arms and was probably stronger and more agressive, and it had bigger claws, and three claws on it's hand's, unlike the tyrannosaur's two.


Tyrannosaurs could not use their arms in any way during a tussle.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheARRGH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Aug-2008 at 04:58
Originally posted by Count Belisarius Count Belisarius wrote:

Says who?


Says who about what?

Specify, I'll respond.
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