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Forum LockedThe Battle of Little Big Horn

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Poll Question: Would the native Americans have their own land today if:
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    Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 11:26

The 'Battle of Little Big Horn', also known as 'Custer's Last Stand' is a famous victory for the Native American Cheyenne and Sioux tribes.

They famously massacred all in the battle, thus was a perfect excuse for the White Americans to retaliate. So the question is if the Native's were to lose, would this have allowed other tribes to have their territory for a longer period. Sufficient enough time to build a larger force?

Perhaps if Custer was to follow orders and not go to war. The White Americans would not feel such hostility towards the natives to take all the land as quick. Lets not forget the famous 'Manifest Destiny', would the White Americans carry this out no matter what? Even if there was no 'Battle of Little Big Horn'

The 'Battle of Little Big Horn' ia already popularly documented as a defining moment in the Native's history, since although they won the battle it led to their speedy decline.

What do you think?

(This topic is dedicated to all the innocent victoms in the history of the 'Wild West', both Native and White American's)


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tommy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 13:13

After the battle, of course, American soldiers carried out a counter atttack on Native American, finally destoryed the resisitance of the Native. But this battle had a positive influence to the native. It encourage them to resist the American, although the way  of resistance might be changed, not  throught the military way.This battle gave prestige and glory to the native people9even other tribes would be encourged0, helped them to hold their identity ,their tradition. It was because of this battle, they felt proud of themselves, proud to be Native American, descendents of Crazy horse and Sitting Bull. The spirit of Crazy horse and sitting Bull would still alive. And this kind of spirit, helped Native american continuous to fight, to take back their rights from USim 60s and 70s of the 20 th century.A book about the civil right movement of the Native is called the spirit of the Crazy horse. this is the evidence. In the long run, nomatter the battle of little big horn brke out or not, white would occupy the whole continent, but the victory of this battle gave dignity , even a sense of nationalist feeeling to the Native people, they still proud of their own ethnic. And this kind of ethnical dignity was so important, led them still preserve their own culture, then own ethnic group would not be absorbed by the white. later, when the time comes, the same kinf of proud and degnity, helped them to struggle and take back their own rights. little Big Horn was a light house, encourged The Native people to hold their identity and fight for this identity.Us could not eliminate the whole ethnic group, but if native people felt shame of the own identity, abonding their own culture and identity,they would be eliminated. the importance of this battle was that, it was an instrument to unite and encourage the Native eople, led them to stand and to struggle.Jewish people  could be United by their religion, Native American could be united by the victory of the Little Big Hron.

You may ask, how come of other Native tribes be encouraged by this battle. I think it was because in 20 century, the traditional tribal system had be broken . All tribes were facing the Us governemnt.so a sense of nationalist feeling among the Native epeople had been aroused. a pan native movement had been formed,people from all tribes joined together to carry out the movement(e.g.long march from California to Washington), the victory in Little Big horn WAS REGRADED AS a victory of THE ENTIRE NATIVE PEOPLlE. What is your opinion?

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ulrich von hutten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 14:51
this battle was only a small event in the history of the war to exterminate the native americans. we remind this moment as one of the few glorious ticks ,cause victories of the native americans were so rarly. the genocid worked much mure cleverly arranged. spreams conterminated with germs , bad supply ,modern diseases,no medical care and last but not least  the schnapps or firewater  decimate the number of the native americans rapidly.
there was no realistic chance for the indians at all.
for more informations about the still bad circumstances of living of the indians
visit www.aimovement.org


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AlbinoAlien Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Dec-2005 at 07:32
Actually, in Custers battle, not all of the american units perished. everyone under the command of CUster who got stuck on that hill of his perished, but major colonel Reno was able to keep the rest of the troops alive long enough for extraction and retreat.
people are the emotions of other people


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DukeC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Dec-2005 at 14:53

I think economics was the driving force behind the westward expansion of the U.S.. There was huge potential for investors in the undeveloped west and the Native tribes stood in the way of this. Their removal was planned at the highest levels of government and included the eradication of the plains Buffalo which was the Natives primary food and materials source.

Anger over Little Big Horn might have sped this up a bit but westward expansion was going to happen anyway.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Dec-2005 at 10:37
Not just anger but a scapegoat for aggressive national policies. Flamboyant Custer from Monroe had his eye on politics. In his race to further establish his name he ran haphazzardly into the united Indian tribes at Little Big Horn. He is not all to blame.  Reno and Benteen had not clearly followed orders in their purssuit of Indian camps. Still an overconfident Custer had over inflated his sense of self and was partially justified in his pursuit of the war. Up till then the Indians had not confronted whole US regiments nor beat them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mangudai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Dec-2005 at 11:14

Originally posted by ulrich von hutten ulrich von hutten wrote:

this battle was only a small event in the history of the war to exterminate the native americans. we remind this moment as one of the few glorious ticks ,cause victories of the native americans were so rarly.

The policy of the US goverment in the post-civil war era was not to exterminate all native americans as often claimed, but to force them into reservations. Brutal  - yes indeed - but not a calculated genocide compared to that of i.g. the extermination of the Tasmanians

Then native victories weren't rare - the native americans only fought when they had a chance to win and prevailed in countless of smaller battles. On the contrary, the native americans arely had any decisive military defeats

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ulrich von hutten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Dec-2005 at 14:47
Originally posted by Mangudai Mangudai wrote:

Originally posted by ulrich von hutten ulrich von hutten wrote:

this battle was only a small event in the history of the war to exterminate the native americans. we remind this moment as one of the few glorious ticks ,cause victories of the native americans were so rarly.

The policy of the US goverment in the post-civil war era was not to exterminate all native americans as often claimed, but to force them into reservations. Brutal  - yes indeed - but not a calculated genocide compared to that of i.g. the extermination of the Tasmanians

Then native victories weren't rare - the native americans only fought when they had a chance to win and prevailed in countless of smaller battles. On the contrary, the native americans arely had any decisive military defeats

 


come on , the aim of the the poltics of the us -goverment in the second half
of the 19th century was to exterminate all kinds of resistance against the
colonization- poltics . the us army did this with the help of the settlers of all nations very efficient. the only thing the indians could do ,was to do pinpricks (?) against the supplie of the army ,the treks and minor important military bases. there was no realistic chance to be  succesful .
or was the methodical exterminatin of the buffalos something else but a fine way to destroy the life resources of the native americans ?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tommy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Dec-2005 at 15:57
Of course the hunting of Buffalos might hit the Native American , but not all,only of the tribes in  Great plain.We cannot say that the tribes of the Pacific coast, southwest?(this I am not totally sure) , or eastern woodland be influenced by that. It is because meat of the buffalos was not  the main source of food  of this tribes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DukeC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Dec-2005 at 16:24

Originally posted by tommy tommy wrote:

Of course the hunting of Buffalos might hit the Native American , but not all,only of the tribes in  Great plain.We cannot say that the tribes of the Pacific coast, southwest?(this I am not totally sure) , or eastern woodland be influenced by that. It is because meat of the buffalos was not  the main source of food  of this tribes.

Other campaigns were carried out to deal with western tribes such as the Nez Pierce. One of my ancestors took part in that campaign, and I have cousins who lease farmland on the current Nez Pierce reserve.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ulrich von hutten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Dec-2005 at 16:25
Originally posted by tommy tommy wrote:

Of course the hunting of Buffalos might hit the Native American , but not all,only of the tribes in  Great plain.We cannot say that the tribes of the Pacific coast, southwest?(this I am not totally sure) , or eastern woodland be influenced by that. It is because meat of the buffalos was not  the main source of food  of this tribes.

yep, but we are talking about little big horn ,this was in 1876 . the most of the tribes in the east were already gone. surely many different tribes had different ways of live and life resources. but it was allways the same , the tribes that lived in forest areas couldn't find venison and so on. for my it is sure that is was a genocide.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tommy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2005 at 12:34
 That I agree.Diseases and wars had already killed a lot of Native american.The changing of the environment also harmed them . But when the white hunted the buffalo in the Great plain, those tribes became so angry,I think there was another reason apart from fearing of losting tyhe main source of food supply. I think Buffalo was a cultural and religious symbol to these tribes, although they killed buffalo,they respect this kind of animal.After hunting, they would carry out ceremonry to honor the dead animal. The hunting of buffalo by the white meant the violation and destruction of Native values and beliefs,so they were angry. And losting of the buffalo had a great psychological impact on Native American.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Laelius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Dec-2005 at 14:59

Quote the tribes that lived in forest areas couldn't find venison and so on. for my it is sure that is was a genocide.


Efforts of the US government were directed principally aimed at the destruction of Native culture, not the population.  Claims of genocide are backed entirely by speculation and are baseless.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ulrich von hutten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Dec-2005 at 15:24
Originally posted by Laelius Laelius wrote:

 

Efforts of the US government were directed principally aimed at the destruction of Native culture, not the population.  Claims of genocide are backed entirely by speculation and are baseless.


constant repeats of vindications  of the proceeding of the us goverment are not indicated.- destruction of culture ,not the population- that's splitting hairs. ask the succession of the survivors of this lucky population , that are living in lousy reservations.


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