History Community ~ All Empires Homepage


This is the Archive on WORLD Historia, the old original forum.

 You cannot post here - you can only read.

 

Here is the link to the new forum:

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Forum LockedThe Animal Versus Thread!

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 7>
Author
Adalwolf View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 08-Sep-2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1232
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adalwolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The Animal Versus Thread!
    Posted: 10-Dec-2007 at 20:30
Inspired by the Shark vs Crocodile thread. Pic two animals and see what everyone on AE thinks would win between them!

I'll start.

Lion vs Tiger?


Concrete is heavy; iron is hard--but the grass will prevail.
     Edward Abbey
Back to Top
xi_tujue View Drop Down
Editorial Staff
Editorial Staff
Avatar
Atabeg

Joined: 19-May-2006
Location: Belgium
Status: Offline
Points: 1919
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Dec-2007 at 20:36
Lion whoot

it's bigger eventhough the Tiger is more aggile depends on the surrounding i think
I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
Back to Top
Darius of Parsa View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar
King of Kings

Joined: 03-Oct-2007
Status: Offline
Points: 589
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darius of Parsa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Dec-2007 at 23:28
Wow thanks, I never knew my topic would have such an impression Embarrassed. I am going to have to go with the lion. The brute force of the animal is enough to steal victory.
What is the officer problem?
Back to Top
Panther View Drop Down
AE Moderator
AE Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 20-Jan-2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 822
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Dec-2007 at 01:16
Uh-oh... I'll just say the Siberian Tiger and leave it at that!
 
 
Back to Top
Knights View Drop Down
Webmaster
Webmaster
Avatar
AE Magazine Coordinator

Joined: 23-Oct-2006
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 3294
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Knights Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Dec-2007 at 01:36
I was going to say that there are already two Lion vs. Tiger threads, but oh well, the more the better! Let me just say, I am a fervent tiger supporter Wink

When it comes down to the hard facts and physical and behavioural adaptations that would prove advantageous over the other, the tiger comes out on top.
 
Let's compare basic statistics:
 
African Lion
Weight - Up to 220kg (Male)
Speed - 75kph (Probably 70kph max for a male)
Adaptations - large mane to look imposing as well as to protect vital organs in the neck and head, plus the typical shared characteristics with tigers - long, sharp canines, retractile claws, bulk, large batting paws.etc.
Typical prey - Wildebeest, Cape Buffalo, Zebra

Tiger
Some subspecies: Siberian Tiger- Up to 350kg and 2.5 - 3m long
Bengal Tiger - Up to 230kg and 3m long
Sumatran Tiger - About 120kg and up to 2.4m long
Adaptations - Speed (70kph), superb jumping ability due to enhanced hind leg muscles, longest canines of all cats, huge paws, powerful front legs for pulling when running, and taking down prey single-handedly, paralytic roar.
Typical Prey - Deer, Water Buffalo, Wild Pig
 
Now if we compare those statistics we discover that the tiger, overall is larger and more agile than a typical male lion (this of course is open to variation). With the protection of the mane comes reduced maneuverability and extra baggage. One particular thing that would probably prove the edge for the tiger is the extremely powerful forelimbs it has. They are used for pulling the tiger forward in pursuit and are necessary for taking down large prey. Their agility would also be a major factor.
 
Upon seeing a tiger fight in the wild, one realises that they fight in a very different fashion to male lions. While lions tend to bat at each other and try to claw each others faces, also trying to get a bite to the others back or neck, tigers have a much more fierce and tiring approach to conflict. tigers wrestle like house cats, locking together and rolling around in a frenzy in an attempt to tire, claw, shred and tear at the other. While lion fights end in death rarely, tiger fights are responsible for a much higher percentage of male tiger's deaths (and in some cases, females).
 
My conclusion is that the tiger would cause fatal wounds to the lion, but in doing so cop several nasty lacerations itself. The tiger would win, while the lion would die. The combination of agility, raw power and muscular strength and size would be on the tiger's side.
 
Note: In India's Gir Forest, the last refuge of Asiatic lions in the world,tigers have been known to have killed the tigers in fights.

Another area of variation is between tiger species. While a Siberian tiger tends to weight at least 100kg more, and possess much more power, the lion still has a chance against smaller subspecies. The Bengal Tiger averages at about 200kg (males) or just under. This is roughly the same, if not a tad less, than the typical male African Lion. On the other hand though, the Sumatran and South China Tiger's are both a fair bit smaller than the lion, 100kg and 150kg approx. respectively.
Regardless, assuming each weighed approximately the same, I'm betting on the tiger. This is contrary to discovery channel who actually made a show dedicated to animal face-offs. The lion vs. tiger one, in my opinion, is ludicrous. However, this show has a tendency towards giving the tiger the raw end of the deal - it gets beaten by every animal it faces off against!
See: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDh93IB_nts/[url]

Keep in mind though that I wouldn't be surprised if the Lion pulled off a victory. A lot of it has to do with initial positioning and first blow.

Ave  Panthera tigris!

- Knights -

Back to Top
Leonidas View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 01-Oct-2005
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 4617
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Dec-2007 at 09:22
tiger hands down, (maybe not if its from SE Asia)

Edited by Leonidas - 11-Dec-2007 at 09:22
Back to Top
Adalwolf View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 08-Sep-2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1232
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adalwolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Dec-2007 at 11:06
I would also vote for the tiger, because of old black and white vids on youtube...
Concrete is heavy; iron is hard--but the grass will prevail.
     Edward Abbey
Back to Top
Siege Tower View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 28-Aug-2006
Location: Edmonton,Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 578
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Siege Tower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Dec-2007 at 23:13
the control factor would be where the fight would take place; if the lion decides to go to siberia and face the siberian tiger, then it is going to be a one way trip.
Back to Top
Zagros View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor
Avatar
retired AE Moderator

Joined: 11-Aug-2004
Location: London
Status: Offline
Points: 8795
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Dec-2007 at 23:30
One way trip.  I liked that.

I reckon bengal tiger would beat a lion nevermind a siberian.

here's another video where cruel Koreans pit the animals against each other.


Edited by Zagros - 12-Dec-2007 at 23:47
Back to Top
Knights View Drop Down
Webmaster
Webmaster
Avatar
AE Magazine Coordinator

Joined: 23-Oct-2006
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 3294
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Knights Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Dec-2007 at 08:00
I think general consensus here sees the Tiger beating the Lion. Can we move onto a new face-off?

How about...Mongoose vs. Egyptian Cobra

The Mongoose would easily take out the Cobra, seeing as they naturally hunt them. Mongooses have incredible reflexes, enabling them to deal with the breakneck strikes of snakes. There are conflicting sources on the net about Mongooses and immunity to snake venom. Some say that they aren't, full stop. Others say they are, or have to eat the snake and then are immune. Not having done any experiments of my own, my personal guess is that a Mongoose could not be immune to all (if some) types of venom, such as haemotoxins, neurotoxins and cardiotoxins, but rather have resistance to some. That's just my opinion - I might look into it more now.

- Knights -

Back to Top
TheARRGH View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar
Over-Lord of the Marching Men

Joined: 29-Jun-2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 747
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheARRGH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Dec-2007 at 06:27
Komodo Dragon vs. Cougar

I'd go with the cougar, but who knows. Biological comparisons between animals are not my forte.

Another interesting one might be Polar bear vs. Saltwater crocodile. Either one can kill a human without thinking twice, both are extremely big and well-armored...


Who is the great dragon whom the spirit will no longer call lord and god? "Thou shalt" is the name of the great dragon. But the spirit of the lion says, "I will." - Nietzsche

Back to Top
Sun Tzu View Drop Down
Consul
Consul
Avatar

Joined: 31-Oct-2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 362
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sun Tzu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Dec-2007 at 13:07
eh Cougars are pretty fast, bust you don't wan't to get bitten by a Komodo dragon, you get infected and if its not clean you can die. The Cougar would prolly kill the lizard, but if the lizard got away with a bite, then the Cougar would be in big trouble.
Sun Tzu

All warfare is based on deception - Sun Tzu
Back to Top
AlbinoAlien View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 05-Oct-2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 419
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AlbinoAlien Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Dec-2007 at 18:58
komodo dragon, hands down. Those teeth are vicious, and i think the komodos have the most diseased bacteria filled teeth that anything they bite into dies within days anyway.
So either beyond the grave, or above it, the komodo wins!
people are the emotions of other people


(im not albino..or pale!)

.....or an alien..
Back to Top
TheARRGH View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar
Over-Lord of the Marching Men

Joined: 29-Jun-2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 747
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheARRGH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Dec-2007 at 19:11
Komodo dragon: Septicemia from the GRAVE!!

Cougar: Bite and scratch ftw!

Seems kind of one-sided...I wonder how the komodo would do against something bigger, like a jaguar.

Similarly, actually. Would probably die, then inflict nasty infections from the grave.

Poison, Disease, and Infections: The great scale-balancers...
Who is the great dragon whom the spirit will no longer call lord and god? "Thou shalt" is the name of the great dragon. But the spirit of the lion says, "I will." - Nietzsche

Back to Top
Justinian View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
King of NĂºmenor

Joined: 11-Nov-2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1405
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Justinian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Dec-2007 at 06:25
^^ A good observation, can't remember the exact toxins the komodos have but one bite and its adios for whatever animal its fighting.
 
Wow, take some time off from the natural history sub-forum and its when animal vs. animal threads attack.Wink
 
Polar Bear versus Saltwater Crocodile, now that is a thinker.  My instincts point to the croc because of superior size, especially if its in the water.  Now if this encounter (have to be because of remarkably incompetent zoo keepers or something, unless polar bears really start swimming a ways for food) took place on land then the polar bear has a chance, though I think its still a small one.  Even if it gets in behind the croc, whats it going to do?  I would be suprised if it could even break the skin of the crocs armored back.  Think of the effort to kill walrus', compared to saltwater crocodiles... not good.


Edited by Justinian - 21-Dec-2007 at 06:40
"War is a cowardly escape from the problems of peace."--Thomas Mann

Back to Top
Knights View Drop Down
Webmaster
Webmaster
Avatar
AE Magazine Coordinator

Joined: 23-Oct-2006
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 3294
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Knights Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Dec-2007 at 12:43
1. The Komodo Dragon would win. The Cougar would have a very hard time penetrating its tough hide. Also, we all know that the venom and bacteria in a Komodo bite will kill the Cougar over time, a bite from it can also cause serious blood loss and other very short term injuries.

2. The Saltwater Crocodile would win both in water, and most probably on land. In water the Bear has no chance, but if on land it can get a few good bites to the neck. Here are three strategies that I think would work exceptionally:
- if the Croc's belly is exposed, rapid bites and scratches could do a lot of damage indeed
- eyes are a weak point, and if gouged will debilitate the Crocodile
- somehow biting off the legs would leave the Croc immobile and vulnerable to the more agile Bear
In fact, I'm starting to make myself think that if a Polar Bear took heed of that advice, it would win!

Back to Top
Roberts View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain

aka axeman

Joined: 22-Aug-2005
Location: Riga
Status: Offline
Points: 1140
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roberts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Dec-2007 at 13:07
The SpiderPig beats any animal mentioned in previous posts due to its unique skill set.

Back to Top
TheARRGH View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar
Over-Lord of the Marching Men

Joined: 29-Jun-2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 747
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheARRGH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Dec-2007 at 18:50
Amen to that.

Jaguar vs. Lion

might seem one-sided, but jaguars have possibly the strongest bite of all big cats. They swim well, hunt caimans and smaller anacondas (sometimes), and they're not THAT much smaller than a lion.


Who is the great dragon whom the spirit will no longer call lord and god? "Thou shalt" is the name of the great dragon. But the spirit of the lion says, "I will." - Nietzsche

Back to Top
Knights View Drop Down
Webmaster
Webmaster
Avatar
AE Magazine Coordinator

Joined: 23-Oct-2006
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 3294
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Knights Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Dec-2007 at 00:11
Jaguars can weigh up to about 160kg. Lionesses are usually around that weight. I've never heard the claim that Jaguars have the strongest bite, but it isn't too far fetched seeing as rather than grasping the windpipe (neck) of its prey, the Jaguar inserts its canines into the skull, penetrating and paralysing the victim. That must take some serious jaw strength. Nonetheless, the superior size and armourment of a lion (mane - are we assuming two fully grown males are battling it out?) would prevail over the stockier but all round smaller Jaguar.

As is usual with these, environment is a variable one must consider. While the Jaguar may have a slight advantage in swampy/wetland areas, I don't think this would tip the odds too much. Lions can go in water, and can fight in water, its just that they usually prefer not to.

As a side note, I think one of the most extreme cat-cat face off would be the Jaguar and the Leopard.

- Knights -

Back to Top
TheARRGH View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar
Over-Lord of the Marching Men

Joined: 29-Jun-2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 747
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheARRGH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Dec-2007 at 07:23
That would indeed be fairly high on the extreme scale.


Who is the great dragon whom the spirit will no longer call lord and god? "Thou shalt" is the name of the great dragon. But the spirit of the lion says, "I will." - Nietzsche

Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 7>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.078 seconds.