History Community ~ All Empires Homepage


This is the Archive on WORLD Historia, the old original forum.

 You cannot post here - you can only read.

 

Here is the link to the new forum:

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Forum LockedTerrorist Leader to Prime Minister/President

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
Author
Paul View Drop Down
Editorial Staff
Editorial Staff
Avatar
AE Immoderator

Joined: 21-Aug-2004
Location: Hyperborea
Status: Offline
Points: 966
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Terrorist Leader to Prime Minister/President
    Posted: 15-Jun-2005 at 16:58

There's been an awful lot of them, can anyone add to the list.

 

 

Menachem Begin

 

Yasser Arafat

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yasser Arafat

 

Nelson Mandela

Nelson Mandela

 

George Washington

 

(MY PICTURE)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Josef Tito

 

Painting of Michael Collins

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Michael Collins

Light blue touch paper and stand well back

http://www.maquahuitl.co.uk

http://www.toltecitztli.co.uk
Back to Top
Komnenos View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
Defensor Fidei

Joined: 20-Dec-2004
Location: Neutral Zone
Status: Offline
Points: 4387
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jun-2005 at 17:12
Originally posted by Paul Paul wrote:


Terrorist Leader to Prime Minister/President


Before we start adding to this list, could you please provide a workable definition of "Terrorist".
Not all, in fact hardly any of them, of the guys you provided would fit in with my understanding of a "Terrorist".
Back to Top
Laelius View Drop Down
Consul
Consul


Joined: 22-Oct-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 354
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Laelius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jun-2005 at 17:15

So George Washington who was known for his humanity and moderation in his own time was a terrorist leader and yet you neglect the likes of Oliver Cromwell?

 

He might have not been a president per se but he wouldn't have become a dictator without his supporters.  Oh and you're using an incredibly loose definition of 'terrorist.'  Mandela, Tito, Collins these men were hardly terrorists.  Guerilla's certainly but they were hardly terrorists!

Back to Top
Paul View Drop Down
Editorial Staff
Editorial Staff
Avatar
AE Immoderator

Joined: 21-Aug-2004
Location: Hyperborea
Status: Offline
Points: 966
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jun-2005 at 18:14

Originally posted by Komnenos Komnenos wrote:

Originally posted by Paul Paul wrote:


Terrorist Leader to Prime Minister/President


Before we start adding to this list, could you please provide a workable definition of "Terrorist".
Not all, in fact hardly any of them, of the guys you provided would fit in with my understanding of a "Terrorist".

I was going for the broadest possible modern definition as used by newspaper and certain politicians.

Originally posted by Laelius Laelius wrote:

So George Washington who was known for his humanity and moderation in his own time was a terrorist leader and yet you neglect the likes of Oliver Cromwell?

He might have not been a president per se but he wouldn't have become a dictator without his supporters.  Oh and you're using an incredibly loose definition of 'terrorist.'  Mandela, Tito, Collins these men were hardly terrorists.  Guerilla's certainly but they were hardly terrorists!

Cromwell was a ligitimate military commander appointed by parliament and famed for his humanity and moderation by standards of the day. Unless you wish to take the opinion state militaries can be terrorists too.

As for the others, one man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter - that's the whole point of the post.

Light blue touch paper and stand well back

http://www.maquahuitl.co.uk

http://www.toltecitztli.co.uk
Back to Top
Komnenos View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
Defensor Fidei

Joined: 20-Dec-2004
Location: Neutral Zone
Status: Offline
Points: 4387
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jun-2005 at 18:22
I'm so sorry, I didn't realise, it was irony, as we Germans have no sense of humour.

In this case, how about Gandhi, although he was never Primeminister or President, but the unelected leader of his nation. Does that count?

Back to Top
Murtaza View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 03-Jun-2005
Location: Turkey
Status: Offline
Points: 805
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Murtaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jun-2005 at 18:25
An one of the most destructive Terrorist.
Back to Top
Komnenos View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
Defensor Fidei

Joined: 20-Dec-2004
Location: Neutral Zone
Status: Offline
Points: 4387
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jun-2005 at 18:28
How about Daniel Ortega, leader of the Sandinistas in their fight against the Somoza military dictatorship, and later first President of the liberated Nicaragua.

Back to Top
Mixcoatl View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 02-Aug-2004
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 4581
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mixcoatl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jun-2005 at 18:37


"Some argue that atheism partly stems from a failure to fairly and judiciously consider the facts"
"Atheists deny the existence of Satan, while simultaneously doing his work."

- Conservapedia
Back to Top
Justice View Drop Down
Janissary
Janissary
Avatar

Joined: 29-Apr-2005
Location: Neutral Zone
Status: Offline
Points: 62
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Justice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jun-2005 at 07:04
Perhaps you mean Revolutionaries , who were  labeled as terrorists.
THEY WILL NOT PASS
Back to Top
Yiannis View Drop Down
Sultan
Sultan
Avatar

Joined: 03-Aug-2004
Location: Neutral Zone
Status: Offline
Points: 2329
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Yiannis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jun-2005 at 07:26

How can you forger the legentary Fidel:

Fidel Castro art print, poster by Celebrity Image



Edited by Yiannis
The basis of a democratic state is liberty. Aristotle, Politics

Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
Back to Top
Mixcoatl View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 02-Aug-2004
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 4581
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mixcoatl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jun-2005 at 07:34



"Some argue that atheism partly stems from a failure to fairly and judiciously consider the facts"
"Atheists deny the existence of Satan, while simultaneously doing his work."

- Conservapedia
Back to Top
ramin View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard


Joined: 16-Feb-2005
Status: Offline
Points: 921
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ramin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jun-2005 at 13:15


I knew I've seen him before!
"I won't laugh if a philosophy halves the moon"
Back to Top
Temujin View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar
Sirdar Bahadur

Joined: 02-Aug-2004
Location: Eurasia
Status: Offline
Points: 5237
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jun-2005 at 15:45
Ghaddafi
Back to Top
Thegeneral View Drop Down
Samurai
Samurai
Avatar

Joined: 05-Mar-2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1117
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thegeneral Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jun-2005 at 15:52
Are you calling Washington a terrorist?!
Back to Top
Achilles View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 26-Jan-2005
Status: Offline
Points: 198
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Achilles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jun-2005 at 20:30
Personally i consider Tito a terrorist. But most people dont know the history of the evils he did while ruling Yugoslavia. but i wont go into them.
Back to Top
Constantine XI View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar
Lord of Hut River Province Principality

Joined: 01-May-2005
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 5713
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jun-2005 at 00:45

Heres is my understanding of what "terrorism" is. Remember when we were kids? Ah yes, those were the days. The carefree days rolled happily by in a world which could so often by an idyllic place compared to the trials of later life. In those uncomplicated days things were very simple. One happy concept of this world was that of black and white, right and wrong, good guys and bad guys. No grey areas, the ignorance and simplicity were blissful. Most of the time on the cartoons you could tell who the "good" guys and "bad" guys were, the "baddies" normally had dark hats and a menacing expression which betrayed their sinister stereotype that could typically be applied to all other "baddies". But my, how the world changes! We grow older, things achieve a new dimension to them and suddenly the world goes from being 100% black and white to 95% grey areas. The simplistic notion of "goodies" and "baddies" disappears under the trampling march of age and wisdom. But lo and behold! Even as long-entrenched adults we can still once more taste that childish bliss and lack of complexity. For certain men of great power and wisdom (i.e. Geroge W. Bush springs to mind foremost ) are able to once again instill in us the oh so simple "us and them" mentality which mercifully cuts out the need for scrutiny. It is a method which allows us to forget about the tedium of worrying about the smaller details and finally harness the fears and insecurities of the public at large to support the strategies and goals of leaders. Terrorism, in short, is a fluid and highly adaptable form of "baddie", a useful mixture of stereotypical bad guy and actual threat which those in power can use to prey on the minds of their citizen body for whatever ends.

 

Last year for international relations we had a big in-class talk about what terrorism was. I find the case of Mandela particularly interesting. Here was a man who helped organise and supply munitions for terrorist attacks on civilian targets in South Africa (most prominently trains which carried women and children). The USA, examining his activites , decided that he deserved to be branded a terrorist and that is precisely what they did. Mandela later had his status of terrorist removed as certain lobbying groups in the USA emerged to support his cause. So there you have it, if you are favoured by the powers that be you can do almost anything and be decorated for posterity with accolades and titles in abundance. If you are not favoured by those powers (i.e. you get in their way, oppose their strategic goals, their leaders do not like you) then you are damned with an all encompassing stereotype so people can instantly despise you without having to scrutinise your character, your cause or any other considerations whatsoever.

Peace out.

It is not the challenges a people face which define who they are, but rather the way in which they respond to those challenges.

Back to Top
Komnenos View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
Defensor Fidei

Joined: 20-Dec-2004
Location: Neutral Zone
Status: Offline
Points: 4387
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jun-2005 at 02:21
Originally posted by Achilles Achilles wrote:

Personally i consider Tito a terrorist. But most people dont know the
history of the evils he did while ruling Yugoslavia. but i wont go into
them.


Why not?
I would be very interested to hear about them!
Back to Top
OSMANLI View Drop Down
Pretorian
Pretorian
Avatar

Joined: 24-Nov-2004
Location: Turkey
Status: Offline
Points: 741
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OSMANLI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jun-2005 at 09:28

Archbishop Makarios (middle) meeting with EOKA terrorist General Grivas (left). Makarios was also president at the time.


"Freedom for the right of the Headscarf"
Back to Top
Achilles View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 26-Jan-2005
Status: Offline
Points: 198
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Achilles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jun-2005 at 14:40
When Tito came to power he had land that had belonged to ethnic-germans for centurys (the great danube-swabian migrations of 1711-1849) taken away. He then ordered his troops to round up the remaining germans (who had not fled when the german soldiers pulled out) to be put into concentration and liqidation camps (although they called them labour camps, same with with the nazis) These labour camps were pretty much as bad as the labour camps of the Nazis. Many of the camps were right next to the nazi ones and some where even where the nazi camps had been. My Grandmother and her family were put into a camp right next Triblinka, and my Friends Grandmother (From Romania) was sent to Dachau (she was liberated 2 weeks into her stay (she was put into the camps by Russians though).

Anyways I suppose Tito was not "Terrorist" but he was almost as bad as Hitler. (although Hitler had many many more people killed.)

I see if i can post my great aunts journal of what happened to them sometime.
Back to Top
AssyrianMan7 View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 12-Apr-2005
Location: Iraq
Status: Offline
Points: 28
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AssyrianMan7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jun-2005 at 15:04
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.047 seconds.