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Forum LockedStefan Nemanja

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    Posted: 04-Jan-2006 at 21:19

Stefan Nemanja was succeeded by his middle son Stefan, whilst his first-born Vukan was given the rule of the Zeta region (present-day Montenegro). Stefan Nemanja's youngest son Rastko became a monk and took the name of Sava, turning all his efforts to spreading religiousness among his people. Since the Curia already had ambitions to spread its influence to the Balkans as well, Stefan used these propitious circumstances to obtain his crown from the Pope thus becoming the first Serbian king in 1217. In Byzantium, his brother Sava managed to secure the autocephalous status for the Serbian Church and became the first Serbian archbishop in 1219. Thus the Serbs acquired both forms of independence: temporal and religious. One of the greatest Serbs

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Perseas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jan-2006 at 17:08
If my memory doesnt betray me, also Stefan the senior became a monk to Mount Athos like his son, by the name Symeon.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jay. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jan-2006 at 17:13
Yes, Aeolus, in 1196 Stefan relinquished his power to his son Stefan Nemanja II, he then took the monastic name Simeon.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the Bulgarian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jan-2006 at 08:56
Originally posted by Jay. Jay. wrote:

Stefan Nemanja was succeeded by his middle son Stefan, whilst his first-born Vukan was given the rule of the Zeta region (present-day Montenegro). Stefan Nemanja's youngest son Rastko became a monk and took the name of Sava, turning all his efforts to spreading religiousness among his people. Since the Curia already had ambitions to spread its influence to the Balkans as well, Stefan used these propitious circumstances to obtain his crown from the Pope thus becoming the first Serbian king in 1217. In Byzantium, his brother Sava managed to secure the autocephalous status for the Serbian Church and became the first Serbian archbishop in 1219. Thus the Serbs acquired both forms of independence: temporal and religious. One of the greatest Serbs

This independance didn't last long. Serbia became a vassal of the Second Bulgarian Empire.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Surbel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jan-2006 at 09:00
Originally posted by the Bulgarian the Bulgarian wrote:

Originally posted by Jay. Jay. wrote:

Stefan Nemanja was succeeded by his middle son Stefan, whilst his first-born Vukan was given the rule of the Zeta region (present-day Montenegro). Stefan Nemanja's youngest son Rastko became a monk and took the name of Sava, turning all his efforts to spreading religiousness among his people. Since the Curia already had ambitions to spread its influence to the Balkans as well, Stefan used these propitious circumstances to obtain his crown from the Pope thus becoming the first Serbian king in 1217. In Byzantium, his brother Sava managed to secure the autocephalous status for the Serbian Church and became the first Serbian archbishop in 1219. Thus the Serbs acquired both forms of independence: temporal and religious. One of the greatest Serbs

This independance didn't last long. Serbia became a vassal of the Second Bulgarian Empire.



 Yeah right  Put some facts,date or period and who was vassal to whome? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Beowulf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jan-2006 at 14:24
Originally posted by the Bulgarian the Bulgarian wrote:

Originally posted by Jay. Jay. wrote:

Stefan Nemanja was succeeded by his middle son Stefan, whilst his first-born Vukan was given the rule of the Zeta region (present-day Montenegro). Stefan Nemanja's youngest son Rastko became a monk and took the name of Sava, turning all his efforts to spreading religiousness among his people. Since the Curia already had ambitions to spread its influence to the Balkans as well, Stefan used these propitious circumstances to obtain his crown from the Pope thus becoming the first Serbian king in 1217. In Byzantium, his brother Sava managed to secure the autocephalous status for the Serbian Church and became the first Serbian archbishop in 1219. Thus the Serbs acquired both forms of independence: temporal and religious. One of the greatest Serbs

This independance didn't last long. Serbia became a vassal of the Second Bulgarian Empire.

Now, you do tend to forge history... Especially when it comes to Serbs. You have done such a thing in few other threads as well. Btw, you still haven't replied on one of my posts (the link is below).  And some of your countrymen tend to do the same. You're one of those people who can't back up their claims with facts.  

http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=456& KW=Bulgar&PN=0&TPN=23



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NikeBG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jan-2006 at 03:50
Originally posted by Beowulf Beowulf wrote:

Originally posted by the Bulgarian the Bulgarian wrote:

Originally posted by Jay. Jay. wrote:

Stefan Nemanja was succeeded by his middle son Stefan, whilst his first-born Vukan was given the rule of the Zeta region (present-day Montenegro). Stefan Nemanja's youngest son Rastko became a monk and took the name of Sava, turning all his efforts to spreading religiousness among his people. Since the Curia already had ambitions to spread its influence to the Balkans as well, Stefan used these propitious circumstances to obtain his crown from the Pope thus becoming the first Serbian king in 1217. In Byzantium, his brother Sava managed to secure the autocephalous status for the Serbian Church and became the first Serbian archbishop in 1219. Thus the Serbs acquired both forms of independence: temporal and religious. One of the greatest Serbs

This independance didn't last long. Serbia became a vassal of the Second Bulgarian Empire.

Now, you do tend to forge history... Especially when it comes to Serbs. You have done such a thing in few other threads as well. Btw, you still haven't replied on one of my posts (the link is below).  And some of your countrymen tend to do the same. You're one of those people who can't back up their claims with facts.  

http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=456& KW=Bulgar&PN=0&TPN=23


Now, the same could be said for you and actually for any other Balkaner. Although, with no offence, I would have to admit that personally you are very good in "history forging" from what I've seen in the thread you gave a link to. Have you been to blacksmith courses?
Oh, and btw - I also disagree - I have no memories of the Second Bulgarian Empire vassalizing officially all of Serbia, although in the time of Tsar Ioan Assen II almost all of the Balkans were under his sceptre. But at that time the Serbian Stefan Vladislav was married to Ioan Assen's daughter Beloslava, so there's nothing strange why he formally kept his power...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Socrates Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jan-2006 at 08:24
Originally posted by NikeBG NikeBG wrote:

Originally posted by Beowulf Beowulf wrote:

Originally posted by the Bulgarian the Bulgarian wrote:

Originally posted by Jay. Jay. wrote:

Stefan Nemanja was succeeded by his middle son Stefan, whilst his first-born Vukan was given the rule of the Zeta region (present-day Montenegro). Stefan Nemanja's youngest son Rastko became a monk and took the name of Sava, turning all his efforts to spreading religiousness among his people. Since the Curia already had ambitions to spread its influence to the Balkans as well, Stefan used these propitious circumstances to obtain his crown from the Pope thus becoming the first Serbian king in 1217. In Byzantium, his brother Sava managed to secure the autocephalous status for the Serbian Church and became the first Serbian archbishop in 1219. Thus the Serbs acquired both forms of independence: temporal and religious. One of the greatest Serbs

This independance didn't last long. Serbia became a vassal of the Second Bulgarian Empire.

Now, you do tend to forge history... Especially when it comes to Serbs. You have done such a thing in few other threads as well. Btw, you still haven't replied on one of my posts (the link is below).  And some of your countrymen tend to do the same. You're one of those people who can't back up their claims with facts.  

http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=456& KW=Bulgar&PN=0&TPN=23


Now, the same could be said for you and actually for any other Balkaner. Although, with no offence, I would have to admit that personally you are very good in "history forging" from what I've seen in the thread you gave a link to. Have you been to blacksmith courses?
Oh, and btw - I also disagree - I have no memories of the Second Bulgarian Empire vassalizing officially all of Serbia, although in the time of Tsar Ioan Assen II almost all of the Balkans were under his sceptre. But at that time the Serbian Stefan Vladislav was married to Ioan Assen's daughter Beloslava, so there's nothing strange why he formally kept his power...

 I don't really see what Beowulf forged.That you were Russian pawns?It's true-they wanted to create Greater Bulgaria in 1878 so they could expand  their influence.They tried to do the same with us in the same year-we stood up to them...I'm talking about Berlin 1878-this is called a historical fact-something obviously unfamiliar to u.

Btw, u don't mention the 20th century and what side u were-while we stood up to Austro-Hungaria-why don't u comment on that quote by Beowulf?

For the record, we have never said anything against Bulgaria on this forum  or made some cheap provocations-I really don't know what drives u guys to say all those things on our account, but I hope u'll stop.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Beowulf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jan-2006 at 09:28
Originally posted by NikeBG NikeBG wrote:

Originally posted by Beowulf Beowulf wrote:

Originally posted by the Bulgarian the Bulgarian wrote:

Originally posted by Jay. Jay. wrote:

Stefan Nemanja was succeeded by his middle son Stefan, whilst his first-born Vukan was given the rule of the Zeta region (present-day Montenegro). Stefan Nemanja's youngest son Rastko became a monk and took the name of Sava, turning all his efforts to spreading religiousness among his people. Since the Curia already had ambitions to spread its influence to the Balkans as well, Stefan used these propitious circumstances to obtain his crown from the Pope thus becoming the first Serbian king in 1217. In Byzantium, his brother Sava managed to secure the autocephalous status for the Serbian Church and became the first Serbian archbishop in 1219. Thus the Serbs acquired both forms of independence: temporal and religious. One of the greatest Serbs

This independance didn't last long. Serbia became a vassal of the Second Bulgarian Empire.

Now, you do tend to forge history... Especially when it comes to Serbs. You have done such a thing in few other threads as well. Btw, you still haven't replied on one of my posts (the link is below).  And some of your countrymen tend to do the same. You're one of those people who can't back up their claims with facts.  

http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=456& KW=Bulgar&PN=0&TPN=23


Now, the same could be said for you and actually for any other Balkaner. Although, with no offence, I would have to admit that personally you are very good in "history forging" from what I've seen in the thread you gave a link to. Have you been to blacksmith courses?
Oh, and btw - I also disagree - I have no memories of the Second Bulgarian Empire vassalizing officially all of Serbia, although in the time of Tsar Ioan Assen II almost all of the Balkans were under his sceptre. But at that time the Serbian Stefan Vladislav was married to Ioan Assen's daughter Beloslava, so there's nothing strange why he formally kept his power...

Nobody's forging history except for your countryman... He also likes to provoce for no reason at all. Should I just sit silently? I don't write from obscure sources and I don't write in order to offend anyone.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NikeBG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jan-2006 at 12:01
Socrates, I already answered in the other thread. Although I have the strange feeling that you two are those, which felt like "oshtipana moma" (pinched/tweaked girl) and started something like a mini-war. And if you mean the_Bulgarian's statement - well, I believe this was only a mistake of his, not a planned offence. Although, if he meant the case I wrote about in the previous post, it might be not a mistake, but a forgottenly changed thing. Anyway, I believe noone of the Bulgarians here has meant anything bad and/or offensive against Serbia or the Serbian people and those "cheap provocations" you're talking about are only in your minds and "hurted" pride!
Btw again as if there's some syndrome here on the Balkans, cuz I watched some time ago an "investigation" on the TV about following the traces of one folk song all along the Balkans - from Turkey, through Greece, Macedonia, Albania, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Serbia and Bulgaria. And guess who acted by the most typical Balkan way! Yes, it was on first place us and then the Serbians. On first place us, because the woman-"reporter" had went on a nationalistic-"patriotic" meeting in Bulgaria and when she told them that she has heard the same song in Turkey, they were almost gonna chase her away with her cameraman. And on second were the Serbs, because she went in one restaurant in Serbia with one Serbian friend of hers. And in that restaurant she started asking them about the song. But then she foolishly played them her recording of the same song from her previous trip to Bosnia and when they heard it, they got absolutely mad. All of the people in the restaurant immediately started to shout that these are just lies and provocations and they even did try to strike at her. It's good that she was with a local friend, so it went without unnecessary violence. Although all the people left and I'm sure the restaurant-owner had cursed them whole night for chasing away his customers! So, yeah - that's the Balkans! Home, sweet home...
Oh, back to the topic -
"He also likes to provoce for no reason at all. Should I just sit silently?" Yes, if you feel provoked, I believe you have the right to "talk back". But I say again that (IMHO) this was not meant as provocation, but was most probably just a mistake. Just like it was a mistake to artificially create a new "nation" and its history in "Southern Serbia"...

And again (ow, I'm getting tired to repeat it) - No offence! History is history!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Surbel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jan-2006 at 13:04
""Just like it was a mistake to artificially create a new "nation" and its history in "Southern Serbia"... ""
 You have to deal with comunists to,so talking about there logic conclusion is non'sense. In every region live nation with the name like the name of the region itself. But most of all,the finnest pice they made was making independent church by pure ateists,wich is not even today recognized by other churches.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Socrates Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jan-2006 at 05:58

 Actually. those cheap provacations I found on few other threads...but it doesn't matter.I don't want to argue or offend anyone.

Anyway, this is all a bit far away from Jay's topic...Sorry, kid!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Surbel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jan-2006 at 06:33
 Jay if you want,i can send  you  the hole history of  his  family but only in Serbian,just for intro  what i have...Sveta loza Stefana Nemanje

      Predgovor Nenada Lemajića
      Strana 1
   1. Mladost Stefana Nemanje
   2. Raška u borbama za nezavisnost
   3. Krštenje Stefana Nemanje
   4. Uspon Stefana Nemanje
   5. Veliki župan Stefan Nemanja
   6. Nemanja u Carigradu
   7. Smrt vizantijskog cara Manojla
   8. Bitka na Moravi
   9. Nemanja ustupa presto sinu Stefanu
  10. Sukobi među braćom

      Strana 2
  11. Vukanova pobeda i poraz
  12. Sveti Sava miri braću
  13. Uspesi u spoljnoj politici
  14. Srbija kao kraljevina
  15. Crkvena nezavisnost
  16. Smrt kralja Stefana Prvovenčanog
  17. Kralj Radoslav
  18. Kralj Vladislav i smrt Svetog Save
  19. Novi kralj Uroš I Veliki (Hrapavi)

      Strana 3
  20. Restauracija Vizantije
  21. Dragutin kao Mlađi kralj
  22. Kralj Stefan Dragutin
  23. Sabor u Deževu
  24. Kralj Stefan Uroš II Milutin
  25. Zajedničke akcije
  26. Pomirenje sa Vizantijom
  27. Katalanci napadaju Hilandar
  28. Nezadovoljstva u Srbiji
  29. Pobuna Stefana (Dečanskog)

      Strana 4
  30. Stefanov povratak
  31. Poslednje Milutinove godine
  32. Sukob nakon Milutinove smrti
  33. Kralj Stefan Dečanski
  34. Bitka na Velbuždu
  35. Dušanova pobuna
  36. Kralj Dušan
  37. Savez sa Kantakuzenom
  38. Velika osvajanja
  39. Car Dušan
  40. Turci nadiru na Balkan

      Strana 5
  41. Neuspeli pregovori sa papom
  42. Srbija nakon smrti cara Dušana
  43. Sukobi oko prestola
  44. Oblasni gospodari
  45. Braća Mrnjavčević
  46. Vukašin kao kralj
  47. Veliki župan Nikola Altomanović
  48. Despot Uglješa Mrnjavčević
  49. Bitka na Marici
  50. Legenda o smrti cara Uroša
I didn't find on the web in English
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jay. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jan-2006 at 19:57
No it's okay, Surbel. Hvala puno!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote violentjack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-May-2006 at 13:49
Here is showtime for your greatest Serb
In his youth he never declared himself as a Serb.Was born in small town of Ribnica Duclea(Duklja)near todays Podgorica, Which was staunchly Catholic.Adriatic town of Bar was seat of Catholic bishops in middle ages.but i will tell some more later.Stjepan Nemanjic aka Stefan Nemanja was born as catholic and had three brothers.Tihomir,Mutimir, I DONT  remember last one and he was the fourth,.He was always ambitious lad,so when Neighboring Rascia or Raska,so called predecesors of Serbs and Serbia was left without leader,Stjepan became Stefan and took the throne.Before this act was to come,he killed his brother Tihomir and exiled one other brother into Dubrovnik.Fourth brother converted into orthodoxy like him.His son was famous Rastko Nemanjic prinz to be who chose religious path.He is also known by Sveti Sava.He will be succeded by Stefan Prvovencani who will rule Serbia in first half of 13 century.Excuse me if i made some slight mistake,later he will be succeded by Dragutin Uros 1243-1271,and Milutin 1281-1321,and  Stefan Decanski 1321-1330,Dusan 1331-1355,and Lazar 1355-1389
Well Vukan was also leader but he died in 1371 Maritza battle

But who ruled Serbia between 1271-1281?


Did i forget some
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote svantoVID Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jun-2007 at 15:04
would you, please, for the benefit of a wider audience,
write some introductory details about nemanja's family, his birth ... death years, etc.
 
what is the meaning of his (nick)name Nemanja ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aleksey Groz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jun-2007 at 08:39
With one year of delay...LOL Here is the answer: you just made one mistake , because STEFAN Uros rulled 1243-1271, and Stefan DRAGUTIN rulled 1271-1281 when he gave his crown to his brother Stefan Milutin. After that, Stefan Dragutin rulled northen Serbia, with Belgrade, modern day Machva and northen parts of modern day Bosnia.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Imperial Serbia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jun-2007 at 20:26
Whoopdey-fvckin doo ,Vjack. He was Catholic. Religion doesn't necessarily define ethnicity and in an immense number of cases, it doesn't .You off all people should know this; after all, you do claim that Bosnian Serbs are Orthodox Bosniaks and that Bosnian Croats are Catholic Bosniaks? Don't be a hypocrite and learn some history. Much of southern Rascia was Catholic at the time as well.

Also, I don't see what your post proves. You pretty much summed up in an extremely short number of sentences, that period in Serbian history. Your point was? I don't see how your post demonizes Serbian history in any way simply because you don't have the facts do back your claims up nor does your post contain coherency as your paragraph starts out by putting u pa pathetic attempt to steal on Serbia's finest leaders and then goes on about completely irrelevant leaders and events that weren't even mentioned or intended to be mentioned!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jun-2007 at 20:43
Keep it civil in here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Athanasios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Aug-2007 at 13:12

Was he  a Catholic? I can remember seeing some pictures were he is depicted in Orthodox churche's walls. He died as a monk in mount Athos which makes him an orthodox , doesn't it?

Anyway, i believe his greatest "achievement" would be a war between the Holy "Roman" Empire and Byzantium. Fortunatelly(for the future of Europe)his alliance with the Germans had broken and the misunderstanding btw the two empires stopped there...

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