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Beylerbeyi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Beylerbeyi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Feb-2009 at 15:35
Quote Then, by your own standards, you have named yourself a slimy liar (and a hypocrite).
Show me one case that I behaved like you, i.e. someone was writing how great was the Ottoman Empire and how it brought civilisation to the savage Europeans and someone replied to him that was not the case, and I came in siding with the first guy. If you can't do this, shut your maul up.

Originally posted by Reginmund Reginmund wrote:

You are right, but it doesn't really change anything. The Afghans, Iraqis or Palestinians have not presented any tempting alternatives to Western civilization. For a Westerner, the model of civilization they present is one of religious fanaticism, repressive traditions, totalitarianism and political corruption. I believe I speak for many Westerners when I say that regardless of ethics I do not wish to see these models of civilization expand their influence, on the contrary I'd have rather have them compromised as much as possible. Is it morally right or wrong for Westerners to do so? I don't know, but I believe the question is irrelevant as most Westerners value their civilization enough to defend and expand it at all costs.
Typical imperialist (in your case nazi) crap, claiming your own views of other peoples and beliefs of racial superiority are supported by all Westerners. Which is great, actually, exactly the kind of thing I want to read from you. It made even the hardened social-fascist edgewaters object to you.

This shows that my method is not that bad, after all. When the lines are drawn, people are forced to make decisions and when challenged people become less cautious and show their true natures. A few more nazis writing here and edgewaters will switch to my side.

Originally posted by pike pike wrote:

Second, Dubya was not edgewaters' Dubya.  Edgewaters is Canadian; Dubya is from....Texas.
If you'd read the posts people wrote you'd have seen that I was replying to someone else. Even then you are wrong because Dubya is not from... Texas. He speaks like a Texan to dupe gullible Republicans like you.
Always try to be as radical as reality itself. - Lenin
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote edgewaters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Feb-2009 at 15:46

Originally posted by Beylerbeyi Beylerbeyi wrote:

Show me one case that I behaved like you, i.e. someone was writing how great was the Ottoman Empire and how it brought civilisation to the savage Europeans

More petty equivocation! I suppose you fancy yourself clever because you can spit out amphiboly and beg the question. First show me where I said anything of the sort. Or, by default, accept that you were being hypocritical.

Quote A few more nazis writing here and edgewaters will switch to my side.

I do not subscribe to Manicheaen simplifications. The world isn't black and white.



Edited by edgewaters - 18-Feb-2009 at 15:54
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote es_bih Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Feb-2009 at 15:54
Originally posted by nuvolari nuvolari wrote:

[QUOTE=es_bih]Stabilizing? Your Empire created these ongoing problems. Same with Pakistan and India and the Palestinian and Israeli conflict. Yup a mod with an opinion, just taking advantage of my natural right to speak ;).


[/QUOT
 Since I joined this forum I have formed the opinion that it is, by and large, quite a respectable one where people of some intelligence may lucidly express their views and hope to have them responded to in a similar manner.  Moreover, although I do not like the power and lack of accountability of moderators, I do accept the need for them when they do not abuse their position. That is not to say that you abuse your position, but your lack of both moderation and restraint does neither yourself nor this forum any credit.
 
I am prepared to accept that the exit of India from the British Empire in 1947 was not conducted quite as seemly as it should have been.  The UK had promised India its independence for its participation and support in WW2, and other nations, notably the USA (as ever meddling in the business of others ! ) was bringing undue pressure on the UK to allow India to leave the Empire. Moreover, the UK had been bankrupted (again largely by the USA ) by WW2, and was also attempting to police the World and prevent post WW2 communist infiltration of many Far Easten countries ( notably Malaysia ).  Also, no-one could have then predicted the violence that would erupt in India between its Muslim and non Muslim races.  All of these things contributed to the horrors that ensued at the time ( and long afterwards) of India's independence. As a convert to Islam I have long studied the role of the UK in both the establishment and the disolution of Empire, and whilst many mistakes were made, I take the view that any country ever to have been a part of the British Empire has indeed been a country blessed.


Actually if you have a problem with staff you take it up with a PM to the rest of the staff Star Not in here.

Other than that. Yes everyone could have predicted, small incidents popped up, and there was a lot of pressure to carve out two separate homelands. The only one practically that didn't care was Gandhi, but the practicalists on both sides did. They drew a fictitious boundary on a piece of paper and divided it upon those parameters, which of course ended up badly.

Blessed?
Oh sure they were blessed with a lot of repression and slaughter, and dependence on a home colony that abandoned the system hastily after it had lost its uses and now these "blessed" people are in worse conditions than when under Empire. Thank you so much for that of blessed nuvolari. BTW convert? Please the other day you were banging Indians at a reservation, then on the moon with your Neptunian family, and who knows what else. With a imagination like that I have to wonder 2 things: 1- what you smoked, 2-how could you not dream up this blessing that didn't happen quite the way you describe.




Edited by es_bih - 18-Feb-2009 at 15:58

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Reginmund View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Feb-2009 at 18:32
Originally posted by Beylerbeyi Beylerbeyi wrote:

Typical imperialist (in your case nazi) crap, claiming your own views of other peoples and beliefs of racial superiority are supported by all Westerners. Which is great, actually, exactly the kind of thing I want to read from you. It made even the hardened social-fascist edgewaters object to you.

This shows that my method is not that bad, after all. When the lines are drawn, people are forced to make decisions and when challenged people become less cautious and show their true natures. A few more nazis writing here and edgewaters will switch to my side.


So your rhetoric on AE is actually aimed at winning people over? LOL

Regardless, if your intention is to draw up the lines clearly then I'm behind you all the way. Most people would benefit from taking a long, hard look at themselves to determine who they are and where they stand, and to do so honestly without resorting to hypocrisy.
Hwæt! wē Gār-Dena in geār-dagum,
þeod-cyninga, þrym gefrunon,
hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Feb-2009 at 20:07
Bey,
 
I am a registered Democrat.
 
And Dubya speaks like a Texan because he is from....Texas.
 
 


Edited by pikeshot1600 - 18-Feb-2009 at 20:09
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Beylerbeyi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Beylerbeyi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Feb-2009 at 20:14
Quote I am a registered Democrat.
Yea, Clinton hating Dubya loving democrat. The only one I heard of. I think they call your kind DINO.

Oh, and Dubya was born in... New Haven, Connecticut. And educated in... Yale.


Edited by Beylerbeyi - 18-Feb-2009 at 20:16
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Feb-2009 at 20:33
Originally posted by Beylerbeyi Beylerbeyi wrote:

Quote I am a registered Democrat.
Yea, Clinton hating Dubya loving democrat. The only one I heard of. I think they call your kind DINO.

Oh, and Dubya was born in... New Haven, Connecticut. And educated in... Yale.
 
Dubya was born in the state G.H.W. Bush was from.  Bush 41 relocated to Texas when the kid was two.  Dubya grew up in Texas, and has lived nearly all his life there.  He is a Texan.  Phillips-Andover, Yale and Harvard don't change that.
 
How many Yankees do you think have been elected governor of Texas?
 
I voted for Dubya, not because I thought he was the best, but because the Democrats put up two poor candidates....Al Gore, a bad politician who couldn't even carry his own state, And John Kerry who thought the country ended just west of New York City.
 
I also voted for Clinton once because the Repubs put up a poor candidate in Bob Dole. 
 
Also, what makes you think all Democrats liked Bill Clinton?  LOL
 
Oh, I forgot, we are all brainwashed.
 
 
 
 


Edited by pikeshot1600 - 18-Feb-2009 at 22:50
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Feb-2009 at 23:24
Yeah, no one considers Bush Connecticuter, he's seen as a Texan. He doesn't have anything culturally like a N.Easterner. His political views are Southern Conservative, and he always prided himself on being Texan. I think most people from Connecticut would rather not bring up any links to him and our state.
By the way, what does Yale have to do with any proof of him be a Connecticuter. It didn't establish anything on his personality, and could be argued that it didn't effect his IQ either!LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Feb-2009 at 14:08
Yale is a typically cosmopolitan Ivy university that draws students from all 50 states and well over 100 other countries.  There recently have been well over 300 Chinese students enrolled - grad and undergrad - and that hardly makes them Connecticut Yankees.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Beylerbeyi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Feb-2009 at 17:08
Quote Yale is a typically cosmopolitan Ivy university that draws students from all 50 states and well over 100 other countries.  There recently have been well over 300 Chinese students enrolled - grad and undergrad - and that hardly makes them Connecticut Yankees.

OK, OK, Bush is a Texan (I still doubt that it's his real accent, tho). 

But you're still clearly a Republican (albeit in denial)... 'Gore and Kerry worse than Dubya'... Yea. I heard of Reagan-Democrats, but you are the first Dubya-Democrat I heard of. And you know that the only reason you voted for Obama was because of Palin. If Count Mccainacula chose someone even remotely resembled a homo sapiens as VP, you would have voted Republican, yet again...  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Feb-2009 at 18:52
No one is required to vote for his party's candidate.  I have tended to evaluate who the better candidate might be by who is in control of Congress at the time of the election (you can't look two or four years down the road). 
 
If one party controls the Executive and the other controls Congress, maybe that is something of a check and balance, but it also tends toward not getting anything done.  As partisan as politics has become in the last couple of decades, it can make for complete stalemate.
 
Party labels are often over emphasized anyway.  All it means is that you are a registered voter on a roll.  So what?  Unless you want a political job, no one is going to care how you register, and the only ones who care how you vote are candidates - and they will not know.
 
I have not been enthused about either party's recent presidential candidates, but in reality, who the President of the United States is does not impact the ordinary citizen that much.  Congressional representation and State representation are the only politicians who can do much for you....and they tend to stay in office longer.
 
Regardless, someone has to be the executive in charge of the Federal government, so I voted for Obama because I did not see the point of a 72 year old man embarking on an administration when the job called for someone younger.  Sarah Palin was just desperation on McCain's part - trying to attract the disenchanted Hillary voters.  Didn't work. 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote edgewaters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Feb-2009 at 23:19

Originally posted by pikeshot1600 pikeshot1600 wrote:

Party labels are often over emphasized anyway.

So true ... just compare the economic policies of Eisenhower vs Clinton ...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Feb-2009 at 00:57
Originally posted by SearchAndDestroy SearchAndDestroy wrote:

Yeah, no one considers Bush Connecticuter, he's seen as a Texan. He doesn't have anything culturally like a N.Easterner. His political views are Southern Conservative, and he always prided himself on being Texan. I think most people from Connecticut would rather not bring up any links to him and our state.
By the way, what does Yale have to do with any proof of him be a Connecticuter. It didn't establish anything on his personality, and could be argued that it didn't effect his IQ either!LOL


hhhmmm... this book might be for you:

http://www.amazon.com/How-Love-Yankees-Clear-Conscience/dp/0934395772
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Feb-2009 at 01:13
Originally posted by pikeshot1600 pikeshot1600 wrote:

Party labels are often over emphasized anyway.  All it means is that you are a registered voter on a roll.  So what?  Unless you want a political job, no one is going to care how you register, and the only ones who care how you vote are candidates - and they will not know.
 


Clap

Quote

 Congressional representation and State representation are the only politicians who can do much for you....and they tend to stay in office longer.
 


Way too long to suit my taste, i mean... 40 or 50 years, come on!

Quote
Regardless, someone has to be the executive in charge of the Federal government, so I voted for Obama because I did not see the point of a 72 year old man embarking on an administration when the job called for someone younger. 


It's a fair point, though i think it is debatable.

Quote
Sarah Palin was just desperation on McCain's part - trying to attract the disenchanted Hillary voters.  Didn't work. 


Well, i was of those here who thought that, and it did prove too not work for McCain, although i am still not sure what he was thinking? It probably is better that he lost. His chances "might" have been little bit more better with someone form the northeast like Lieberman, though without all the buzz generated in the press about the 2nd female VP candidate? Though i doubt he might have won, it might have proven to be another close race like the last two elections? All pure speculations on my part of course...
 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Feb-2009 at 02:52
Originally posted by Panther Panther wrote:

Originally posted by SearchAndDestroy SearchAndDestroy wrote:

Yeah, no one considers Bush Connecticuter, he's seen as a Texan. He doesn't have anything culturally like a N.Easterner. His political views are Southern Conservative, and he always prided himself on being Texan. I think most people from Connecticut would rather not bring up any links to him and our state.
By the way, what does Yale have to do with any proof of him be a Connecticuter. It didn't establish anything on his personality, and could be argued that it didn't effect his IQ either!LOL


hhhmmm... this book might be for you:

http://www.amazon.com/How-Love-Yankees-Clear-Conscience/dp/0934395772
That wasn't my point exactly. I think both politically and to some extent culturally, Texans and N.Easterners do have differences, and thats what I was getting at. Yeah he is American, but the arguement was that Bush was putting on a show as if playing the Texan role but was really a Connecticuter, he isn't.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peteratwar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Feb-2009 at 12:09
Originally posted by Beylerbeyi Beylerbeyi wrote:

I hope everyone here in this forum sees that there is no shortage of imperial apologists here who stoop so low to justify and even glorify incredible atrocities. The only difference between these people and holocaust denying neo-nazis is that the nazis lost the world wars. Because of people like this, Western public can still be shepherded into supporting warmongers in their imperialist adventures in the Middle East. Because of people like this, it is possible for Israel to oppress the Palestinians, Americans to massacre Iraqis and Afghans. While their more liberal comrades say that they are enlightened, and act as if imperialism and imperial apologists no longer exist. When someone speaks out them, these imperialists, and lite-imperialists are quick to unite and present a common front. 

For the non-Western observer, the situation in the world is clear. Western Imperialism has to be defeated in the world. After their back is broken, they can masturbate as much as they like about their imperial past, and we would just laugh at them. But as long as they are killing Iraqis and Afghans their poisonous propaganda must be dealt with. 
 
Well I am not sure what this rubbish is all about.
 
Still about 30 years out of date especially when all the rape and pillaging and enslaving is included. Still given a big enough lie repeated often enough someone may believe it. You can fool some of the people all the time, you can fool all the people some of the time, you can't fool all the people all the time.
 
I find no trace of Empire building (in the accepted sense of the word Empire) in South America, nor in North America, nor in Europe, nor in Africa, nor in Asia, nor in Australasia, nor in Oceania, nor in the Middle East etc.
 
Who is building up an empire and taking over the rulership of what country or countries ?
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