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Poll Question: Who do you think was/are the most highly trained special forces units?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
2 [3.70%]
25 [46.30%]
15 [27.78%]
3 [5.56%]
9 [16.67%]
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2007 at 14:45
Quote The Navy Seals have too much propaganda... They have huge and awsome equipment, but as soldiers... they are nothing special....
You really don't know much about them at all. Yeah they get good equipment, but they are trained to use the weapons and equipment of their potential enemies.
You just sound like a nationalist, and everyone could see that reading your post with this line,
Quote Europe rullezzzz
 
Now I'm not saying I'm a expert, but I will be commenting on the Seals as they are the ones I studied up on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChickenShoes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2007 at 18:06

What about Brandenburgers? No one likes them? These were some intensely trained units, trained for Operation Sea Lion and Operation Felix (two ridiculously indepth missions). They were trained not only amphibiously but as paratroopers as well. In addition they used their skills to impersonate Soviet soldiers and American soldiers and sowed confusion behind enemy lines.



Edited by ChickenShoes - 16-Apr-2007 at 18:07
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Christ-Knight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Apr-2007 at 15:42
Originally posted by SearchAndDestroy SearchAndDestroy wrote:

Quote The Navy Seals have too much propaganda... They have huge and awsome equipment, but as soldiers... they are nothing special....
You really don't know much about them at all. Yeah they get good equipment, but they are trained to use the weapons and equipment of their potential enemies.
You just sound like a nationalist, and everyone could see that reading your post with this line,
Quote Europe rullezzzz
 
Now I'm not saying I'm a expert, but I will be commenting on the Seals as they are the ones I studied up on.
 
No I simply have evidences... the Seals are good, but for example everyone remembers few years ago they went to Colombia to rescue a priest and they were all killed. Man I am a soldier, I know LOTS of forces... and u are what? before speak think first....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Apr-2007 at 16:08
So you use one example for all? Do you know all the circumstances to that operation? Why don't you try thinking instead of using one incident. And your a soldier? So you've went on missions with the Seals? Again, why don't you try thinking?
Like I said, I'm not claiming they're the best or the worst, I'm going by the knowledge I studied up on them. You seem to be thinking in simple terms my friend. And you tell me to think!LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Christ-Knight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Apr-2007 at 16:28
Originally posted by SearchAndDestroy SearchAndDestroy wrote:

So you use one example for all? Do you know all the circumstances to that operation? Why don't you try thinking instead of using one incident. And your a soldier? So you've went on missions with the Seals? Again, why don't you try thinking?
Like I said, I'm not claiming they're the best or the worst, I'm going by the knowledge I studied up on them. You seem to be thinking in simple terms my friend. And you tell me to think!LOL
No I did not... but I know marines who had seals in their team during a drill but they are nothing special... for exapmle the KSK are much better... seals are good, but they are not nothing special... the better forces are the ones that you can even imagine that their exists... belive me... yeah, and think...LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Apr-2007 at 16:38
Sorry, I still think your just being nationalist about it all. There isn't any reason to believe that they are just average, especially since they take the best from even the Marines. Then they give them advanced training in fields they wouldn't and are taught how to use weapons they wouldn't be equiped with and may find on the fields. Everything points the opposite of what your saying and have been saying. You use one operation as the basis of your arguement and ignore one of the simple things, their training. They get about 70-80% drop out rates and this isn't by hazing, or persuassian in any way. They drop out because of the training alone. After they make it through that step they go on to advanced training and may get even more specific depending on the team their in.
So why don't you try using that noggin and read up before just generalising and going on what you want and believe. Like I said, I only comment on the Seals because I've studied up on them, you seem to be just constantly listing off every European Special Forces saying "they are better then your Seals!" without any information on them. Hell, they could be better then the Seals, but for you to call the Seals nothing more then average shows your lack of information, though that was evident from your past posts on them too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Christ-Knight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Apr-2007 at 16:44
Originally posted by SearchAndDestroy SearchAndDestroy wrote:

Sorry, I still think your just being nationalist about it all. There isn't any reason to believe that they are just average, especially since they take the best from even the Marines. Then they give them advanced training in fields they wouldn't and are taught how to use weapons they wouldn't be equiped with and may find on the fields. Everything points the opposite of what your saying and have been saying. You use one operation as the basis of your arguement and ignore one of the simple things, their training. They get about 70-80% drop out rates and this isn't by hazing, or persuassian in any way. They drop out because of the training alone. After they make it through that step they go on to advanced training and may get even more specific depending on the team their in.
So why don't you try using that noggin and read up before just generalising and going on what you want and believe. Like I said, I only comment on the Seals because I've studied up on them, you seem to be just constantly listing off every European Special Forces saying "they are better then your Seals!" without any information on them. Hell, they could be better then the Seals, but for you to call the Seals nothing more then average shows your lack of information, though that was evident from your past posts on them too.
 
man u are not understanding... the seals are good, but I know forces that better than them... I belive in you! I belive that you studied seals, but I am here in Europe, I know them.  The american doctrine is different from our... you want win with men but you prefer high tech, here you combine both... that makes the difference... Wink but I say again.... seals are very good soldiers 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Apr-2007 at 16:58
See, thats what I'm talking about, you believe that the Seals rely on high tech equipment, yet there training isn't based on that relience at all. They rely on the team first and foremost, and their training.
So far, all 75 of their operations in Afghanistan were successful, as were they in Iraq. In Iraq there are three well known operations they took part in, saving Jessica Lynch, which was the first successful POW rescue since WWII, the shootout with Saddams sons and the capture of Saddam. In Iraq they also protect the offshore oil and gas terminals and have been capturing terrorist who try to go the way of sea.
They are also in current operation in the Philippines and the Horn of Africa where they don't have the support of any large operation military. They are elites, and they do what they do best, which is offshore clandestine operations, among others too.
They don't just rely on high tech equipment at all. They can't because they need to be able to survive without that type of equipment. You don't train Special Forces for 40 weeks just to teach them how to use high tech equipment. They are trained for quality, if high tech it would be quanitity with equipment in quality.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Christ-Knight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Apr-2007 at 17:08
Originally posted by SearchAndDestroy SearchAndDestroy wrote:

See, thats what I'm talking about, you believe that the Seals rely on high tech equipment, yet there training isn't based on that relience at all. They rely on the team first and foremost, and their training.
So far, all 75 of their operations in Afghanistan were successful, as were they in Iraq. In Iraq there are three well known operations they took part in, saving Jessica Lynch, which was the first successful POW rescue since WWII, the shootout with Saddams sons and the capture of Saddam. In Iraq they also protect the offshore oil and gas terminals and have been capturing terrorist who try to go the way of sea.
They are also in current operation in the Philippines and the Horn of Africa where they don't have the support of any large operation military. They are elites, and they do what they do best, which is offshore clandestine operations, among others too.
They don't just rely on high tech equipment at all. They can't because they need to be able to survive without that type of equipment. You don't train Special Forces for 40 weeks just to teach them how to use high tech equipment. They are trained for quality, if high tech it would be quanitity with equipment in quality.
 
Yeah I belive in you man. But what I am saying is for example... you dress completly a german KSK soldier, and a seal... you make physical proofs, cold resistence, psicological resistance etc... and the KSK in average wins... I can garanty it to you... Smile the operations in Afeghanistan an Iraq are relative easy... they do not filght with the same weapons... no even close of that...! Wink but seals are good it is true!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Apr-2007 at 17:21
Quote you make physical proofs, cold resistence, psicological resistance etc...
Thats the stuff the seals are known for, they drop you in a tank of cold water with a swim suit and in this case a breathing mask to see how long you can resist the freezing temperatures. Hell week pushes the physical limits of a human and weeds out about 70% of the people going in, and psychological is also what weeds those people out. They do this without any officers harassing them, it's the training that makes them leave and they leave  mostly on their freewill unless the Officer dictates that their body just can't handle it. I posted a video on the previous page that starts talking about those three things you said. They choose the best in those catagories before they are even considered Seals. And even then those who made it through that course may not make it to the end, so they even weed out above average soldiers.
By the way, the first 3minutes of that video I posted talks about the cold resistence, psychology, and toughness. And this isn't even the training, it's just to see who will become Seals.


Edited by SearchAndDestroy - 17-Apr-2007 at 17:33
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Christ-Knight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Apr-2007 at 18:01
Originally posted by SearchAndDestroy SearchAndDestroy wrote:

Quote you make physical proofs, cold resistence, psicological resistance etc...
Thats the stuff the seals are known for, they drop you in a tank of cold water with a swim suit and in this case a breathing mask to see how long you can resist the freezing temperatures. Hell week pushes the physical limits of a human and weeds out about 70% of the people going in, and psychological is also what weeds those people out. They do this without any officers harassing them, it's the training that makes them leave and they leave  mostly on their freewill unless the Officer dictates that their body just can't handle it. I posted a video on the previous page that starts talking about those three things you said. They choose the best in those catagories before they are even considered Seals. And even then those who made it through that course may not make it to the end, so they even weed out above average soldiers.
By the way, the first 3minutes of that video I posted talks about the cold resistence, psychology, and toughness. And this isn't even the training, it's just to see who will become Seals.
 
yeah I belive and I heard about that... but you do not know the KSK training... you do not even imagine....
 
Here our DAE they are send to cold water, with eyes shoted, arms and legs stuck with a rope and they are send to a tank and the instructores are watching when they become to drawn... then... they save them... some soldiers die here... I call it unfair... but they have theit methods...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DukeC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Apr-2007 at 19:28
Most special forces training pushes human limits as close to their breaking point as possible, it's silly to claim that one force is dramatically different than another. They're all highly capable at what they do, it's too bad they have so  much work in the world lately though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kurt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Apr-2007 at 07:42
aparently turkish special forces are the only forces in the world that train with real bullets. ive seen footage of them shooting books of each others heads, one some website, which i will try to find for you. if not, look for footage of the cyprus invasion and you will some greeks getting headshots for trespassing into their territory and trying to tear the turkish flag down.
 
but from what i've read, the french have the best special forces - they're even on counter strike!
 
the SAS are also quite amazing, the things you have to do to become an SAS solider are awesome and incredibly difficult. try looking them up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Apr-2007 at 09:11
that footage wasn't during the Cyprus invasion, rather more recent.  it was one Greek civilian getting shot from behind and that footage has nothing to do with special forces.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the_oz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Apr-2007 at 18:50
it was a soldier not a special force who shot the man who was transgressioning turkish border.

Edited by the_oz - 21-Apr-2007 at 18:51
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kurt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Apr-2007 at 01:10
Originally posted by Leonidas Leonidas wrote:

that footage wasn't during the Cyprus invasion, rather more recent.  it was one Greek civilian getting shot from behind and that footage has nothing to do with special forces.

where did you see this footage? please give me a link.
the footage i saw was a greek getting a head shot for trying to rip the turkish flag down, who are you to tell me what i saw? and considering that the greek government has been caught making fake pictures of turks cutting off kurdish heads i wouldn't be suprised if the footage you saw was fake as well.
however, those weren't special forces, because during the cyprus invasion the turkish special forces weren't yet in existence. they are called bordo bereliler (maroon berets) and came first in the eagle competition four years in a row, and after that the competition was cancelled because they kept winning. the eagle competition is a competition held in america where the world's special forces compete to see who is best. i guess that proves that turkish special forces are the world's best. to take this statement in reference to body armour: 'MB Master Stg. Mehmet A. K. states: "They are not necessary. We are able to eliminate our targets before they can engage us anyway, so there is no point in limiting our mobility with the excess weight of kevlar and metal plates."'
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Byzantine Emperor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Apr-2007 at 01:21
Originally posted by kurt kurt wrote:

aparently turkish special forces are the only forces in the world that train with real bullets. ive seen footage of them shooting books of each others heads, one some website, which i will try to find for you. if not, look for footage of the cyprus invasion and you will some greeks getting headshots for trespassing into their territory and trying to tear the turkish flag down.
 
Originally posted by the_oz the_oz wrote:

it was a soldier not a special force who shot the man who was transgressioning turkish border.
 
Originally posted by kurt kurt wrote:

where did you see this footage? please give me a link.
the footage i saw was a greek getting a head shot for trying to rip the turkish flag down, who are you to tell me what i saw? and considering that the greek government has been caught making fake pictures of turks cutting off kurdish heads i wouldn't be suprised if the footage you saw was fake as well.
 
Hey guys, please don't let this thread degenerate into a nationalistic squabble.  I am not calling it such yet, but do be careful.  Thanks.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Laelius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Apr-2007 at 10:48
Is it me or do Special Forces threads always attract the most ignorant forummers?  First the poll is not only incomplete its entirely too ambiguous.  I mean if you're going to make a poll of the best why not do some manner of research, I mean Spetznas SEALs and SAS are but the middle echelon of their respective nations Special operations capability.  Each one of these units contains within it more elite subunits staffed with soldiers handpicked from these already elite organizations.  Units like Alpha Group, Seal Team 6 and the 22nd SAS.   
 
Quote No I did not... but I know marines who had seals in their team during a drill but they are nothing special... for exapmle the KSK are much better... seals are good, but they are not nothing special... the better forces are the ones that you can even imagine that their exists... belive me... yeah, and think...LOL
 
For instance this drivel, what are you basing this nonsense off of?  Let me ask you this?  Please provide some manner of evidence to prove your assertions.  Your reasoning is absurd, units like DAE and KSK have been around for a fraction of the time of the US NAVY SEALs and so of course they are less known but what you've failed to consider is that within an organization like the US Navy SEALs exists what might be termed an elite within an elite.
 
Sorry Kiddo but until you do a step by step comparison of training selection and operational experience you mine as well stop posting in this thread.
 
BTW can any of your Special Operations Units compete with this!?
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Apr-2007 at 14:54
lol At first I thought that video was a joke, then I remembered there was a TV show awhile back called Man vs. Beast. That chimp is pretty funny at the end.
By the way, I thought Seal Team 6 was disbanded?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Christ-Knight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Apr-2007 at 15:56
they have been here... and they simply QUIT! they said that here this is unhuman... enough for you now? seals are good... but they have many fails...
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