Smaller Force vs Bigger Force

Hi,
There are plenty of such battles actually, Creta 1941, Trafalgar 1805,
(Surcouf sazing of the English flagship, the Kent in 1803) and many many
colonial battle between usualy European armies against non-european
ones (from Cortez to the Zoulou wars).
Although, I think one should be careful before falling in a the elite-troop-
fantasy (isn't it Mr. Rumsfeld?). Indeed, what may seem a superior army
may in fact be much inferior. What I mean is: of course a few SAS or
special forces will defeat 500 untrained fighters, but there what has to be
taken under consideration is the cost of each fighter. Between traning,
equipment and media impact (sadly for human nature) an SAS's life worth
maybe 100 fighters. Not mentionning a large state can lose lots of
soldiers (Persian empire) whereas a small one can't (Athen or Sparta).
Another example, Hannibal won at Cannes but he didn't have any other
choice. If defeated he was sure to be forced to retreat or even worst. On
the contrary, Romans were able to re-create exacty the same army.
I think in any case we should think as wargamers, do both armies worth
the same amount of points?
Hence, did ever an army with much less points defeated a stronger one?
Let say with unmaterial goods: more luck, esprit de corps, courage and
strategic inspiration? This time I don't have any examples.

Edited by Maharbbal

Assaye, Lord Wellesly, (wellington) 5,000 troops most Sepoys 70,000+ Mahratta troops, trained and commaded by european officers, under General Pohlmann, previouslt a Hanoverian Sergent entered Prince Scindias service and florished. Wellesly attacked in a 2 man line, gun count maybe 20 serois peices in the british camp over a 100 in the mahratta

Battle of Stirling Bridge-  About 20,000 Scots outnumbered by 40,000 English
Battle of Bannockburn- About 10,000 Scots outnumbered by 30,000 English
Battle of He Fei- Zhang Liao and 800 Wei forces hold back 10,000 Wu forces led by Sun Jian

Originally posted by Maharbbal Hi,  Indeed, what may seem a superior army may in fact be much inferior. What I mean is: of course a few SAS or special forces will defeat 500 untrained fighters, but there what has to be taken under consideration is the cost of each fighter. Not mentionning a large state can lose lots of soldiers (Persian empire) whereas a small one can't (Athen or Sparta).

A very poignant analysis.

The Oda clan won with smaller numbers, but that was all they had so each man more valuable than the enemy, so a greater force.

Assaye, the Maharathas again were using everything they had, the British could just send for another army.

In fact I think every battle mentioned so far.

 

What we need is a country with a lot of resources and men using only a few poorly trained troops to beat a large seasoned force from a small country with little men and resources.

Perhaps Mons Graupius

Where the Romans sent in the auxilleries and never used the legionaries, had the whole resources of the empire behind them if they lost. The Scots were using everything they had and their best.

Edited by Paul

Battle of Kohima

Most of the early Arab conquests, Mongols vivtories, Alexander at Issus and Guegamula, Martahon, the early phases of the German armys assault on Moscow, Singapore 42.

But, remember none of these battles were slogging matches. If they had been the people who broght more toys to the party would have won. In each case it was something else, tactics (like at Cannae) interior lines, technology (Spanish in new world), training (Iraq) or most of all terrain. Armies have used those to their advantage, to compansate for numerical inferoirty. And in many case they may have been outnumbered in terms of men in theater, but not in terms of men engaged.

 

Battle of Yarmouk 636 A.D :- the Arab(35,000 men) under Khalid Bin al Walid defeated a huge Byzantine army (70,000) under Theodore the Sacellarius and Baanes.

Originally posted by majkes1 Kircholm 1605 3,5 thousand Polish-Lithuanian army defeats 11 Swedish army Kluszyn 1612 7 thousand Polish-Lithuanian army defeats 35 thousands Russian-Swedish army Battle of Somosierra 1808 - about 100 Polish lancers force to retreat 10.000 Spanish army

Battle of Lubieszow 1577 - 2000 Polish soldiers defeated 12 000 Germans

Battle of Chocim 1621 (7th September) - 650 Polish hussars defeated 10 000 Ottomans

1810 battle of Fuengirola. 300 Poles defeated 1200 British and 1000 Spanish, captured british general and artillery, sink some british ships.

http://web2.airmail.net/napoleon/Fuengirola.htm

Originally posted by ataman Battle of Chocim 1621 (7th September) - 650 Polish hussars defeated 10 000 Ottomans

We should have their urine analysed

Wateva .... pretty much every source u read says the same figures.

Have a wank and do some more research.