History Community ~ All Empires Homepage


This is the Archive on WORLD Historia, the old original forum.

 You cannot post here - you can only read.

 

Here is the link to the new forum:

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Forum LockedSkanderbeg and the Arbresh of South Italy

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12
Author
Spartakus View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar
terƶrist

Joined: 22-Nov-2004
Location: Greece/Hellas
Status: Offline
Points: 4496
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jun-2006 at 17:30

I was talking about Hellenic Epirus,of course,,not Albanian one.

Concerning the statue,i find it more preferable to gather all foreign heroes in a museum ,rather than having them in Hellenic squares.That's the best thing can be done right now.
"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. "
--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)
Back to Top
Kotsos View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 01-Jun-2006
Status: Offline
Points: 0
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kotsos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jun-2006 at 17:44
Akritas, Botsaris (search for Botsaris/Kastriotis) family if i remember right [it's late] and some more.
Before you think of groupping people into origins, it's beyond discussion he gave the modern meaning of a Greek, being of the first independent people of Greece, first modern Greek.
Most descendants of soldiers of Skanderbegs army are the Italy's Arberesh, for whom the topic is dedicated, and they also played a prominent role in the independence of modern day Albania.



Quote ,i find it more preferable to gather all foreign heroes in a museum ,rather than having them in Hellenic squares.That's the best thing can be done right now.

yes, it could be better done this way nowadays.


Edited by Kotsos - 04-Jun-2006 at 17:46

nje faqe nje fare
Back to Top
Spartakus View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar
terƶrist

Joined: 22-Nov-2004
Location: Greece/Hellas
Status: Offline
Points: 4496
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jun-2006 at 17:53

Concerning the term Hellen,you do not born a Hellen,you become one.

"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. "
--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)
Back to Top
akritas View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
Hegemom

Joined: 17-Sep-2005
Location: Greek Macedonia
Status: Offline
Points: 1448
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote akritas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jun-2006 at 18:18

Kotsos I didn't ask to tell the genealogic tree of Kastriotis or Botsaris.I  am ask  you to tell me who are the descendants of survivals of Skanderbeg's soldiers  in Greece  that you mentioned ?  Were Greeks or something else?

Back to Top
Arbėr Z View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor
Avatar

Joined: 26-May-2006
Location: Albania
Status: Offline
Points: 599
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Arbėr Z Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jun-2006 at 19:03
look akritas, as i want to become a diplomat in the future, but also as a humble citizen of my country, i want Albania to have good relations with Greece. For 1000 reasons, that i wont mention here. But that issue wont let the relations improve. We (as countries not as people)have to face that issue.I am not telling that the claims of that community are right and standing. Their ancestors probably never lived in greece. But why Greek state doesnt face this problem in a completely transparent process of confronting their documents for the ownership of the land with greek counterproofs. Greek government should clarify that this people are wrong, and then we all go happy in our way towards integration. (I guess the problem will be IF they are not).
Prej heshtjes...!
Back to Top
Kotsos View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 01-Jun-2006
Status: Offline
Points: 0
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kotsos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jun-2006 at 03:23
Akrita i have already answered your question.
Originally posted by Akritas Akritas wrote:

who are the descendants of survivals of Skanderbeg's soldiers ?

Originally posted by Kotsos Kotsos wrote:

Akritas, Botsaris (search for Botsaris/Kastriotis) family if i remember right [it's late] and some more.


Originally posted by Akrita Akrita wrote:

Kotsos I didn't ask to tell the genealogic the of Kastriotis or Botsaris.

i don't understand you: nobody gave you a genealogic tree. You asked a question and i answered. Look above.

i also said in the next line, that they [Botsaraioi] were modern Greeks, as some modern Greeks are those who descend from Botsaris family (who's family's traditions connect them with Kastrioti's army). in such a way, Kastriota's army is somewhat "connected" with modern Greeks.

i think it's clearer now, if you didn't understand something we can continue discussing with pms or open another topic, Peiraioti Big smile

Arbėr i agree that this thing is bringing to a halt good relations.



nje faqe nje fare
Back to Top
Theodore Felix View Drop Down
Editorial Staff
Editorial Staff
Avatar
AE Editor

Joined: 10-Jan-2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 769
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Theodore Felix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jun-2006 at 11:13
    
Quote some statue should be built in Greece as well.



Kotsos. That statue, its in Rome. It has less to do with honoring Scanderbeg actions, but his actions to the Catholic Church(by participating in the crusade and being proclaimed "Athleta Christi"), there is a statue of Scanderbeg in southern Italy, the Arberesh revear him like a saint and even depict him in church frescos(seeHere

Edited by Theodore Felix - 05-Jun-2006 at 11:14
Back to Top
akritas View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
Hegemom

Joined: 17-Sep-2005
Location: Greek Macedonia
Status: Offline
Points: 1448
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote akritas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jun-2006 at 11:15
Originally posted by Arbėr Z Arbėr Z wrote:

look akritas, as i want to become a diplomat in the future, but also as a humble citizen of my country, i want Albania to have good relations with Greece. For 1000 reasons, that i wont mention here. But that issue wont let the relations improve. We (as countries not as people)have to face that issue.I am not telling that the claims of that community are right and standing. Their ancestors probably never lived in greece. But why Greek state doesnt face this problem in a completely transparent process of confronting their documents for the ownership of the land with greek counterproofs. Greek government should clarify that this people are wrong, and then we all go happy in our way towards integration. (I guess the problem will be IF they are not).
We go out of the topic.If you want answers I will be glad to participate in a topic that concern the Chams.
Greek state closed this thread with the Justice via trials and the participation of the UN observers .That's why your gov all these years stay silence.
Back to Top
akritas View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
Hegemom

Joined: 17-Sep-2005
Location: Greek Macedonia
Status: Offline
Points: 1448
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote akritas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jun-2006 at 11:19
Originally posted by Kotsos Kotsos wrote:

Akrita i have already answered your question.

i don't understand you: nobody gave you a genealogic tree. You asked a question and i answered. Look above.

i also said in the next line, that they [Botsaraioi] were modern Greeks, as some modern Greeks are those who descend from Botsaris family (who's family's traditions connect them with Kastrioti's army). in such a way, Kastriota's army is somewhat "connected" with modern Greeks.

i think it's clearer now, if you didn't understand something we can continue discussing with pms or open another topic, Peiraioti Big smile
Yes now it's clear. BTW did you ever hear the Reggimento Reale Macedone (mentioned from Vakalopoulos in History of Epirus)?
 
In 1736 the Ruler of the Neapols Charles C (1716-1788) recognized the Greek infrection in the all sectors (education, religion, people) moved on at the region of the Abruzzo bestowal lands and the creations of College , Church and of a Military Corp. This Corp named as "Reggimento Reale Macedone" or Royal Regiment of Macedonia.
Back to Top
Arbėr Z View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor
Avatar

Joined: 26-May-2006
Location: Albania
Status: Offline
Points: 599
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Arbėr Z Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jun-2006 at 11:54
Akritas, the Albanian state and its government should stay out of that problem. It has to do with the greek state and a certain comunity living in albania. As you know, justice si done in many levels (hierarchic). As this people claim to be depatriated, I believe the trial should be kept in a impartial country, and with an impartial jury, because the parts will be the greek state and that comunity.
 
Now lets get back to the topic.
Scanderbeg is not honoured only for his catholic christian deeds. He is the national hero of all albanians, and modern states honour him also for that (paying respect to the albanian comunities).
There are statues of scanderbeg in Rome, St.Demeter Corone / Shėn Mitėr Koronė as well as in three other communities where arbėreshė live. And in Albania, as well as in Kosova there are statues or streets anmed in the honour of Garibaldi, for example.
Prej heshtjes...!
Back to Top
Arbėresh View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard


Joined: 18-Apr-2007
Status: Offline
Points: 0
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Arbėresh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Apr-2007 at 11:56
Dear all,
as my nickname suggests I'am an Arbėresh from south Italy more exactly from sicily. I feel an Italian "tout a fait" belonging to the albanophone minority of Italy (about 100000 still speaking arbėristh). There are many other minority community in Italy: you can find greek minority (still speaking an ancient greek langue) in the south of Italy (close to Reggio Calabria) and in Apulia (near to Lecce). There are some other minorities in Italy:in the north of Italy the german-speaking of Trentino, the Ladins, the French (Valle d'Aosta). I know also about the existence of a Croate minority in Molise (south Italy region). All these communities are recognized by Italian state and protected by specific laws. No irredentistical claims from these minorities but mutual respect with our Italian compatriots!
I know that in Greece not such a law (minorities recognition and specifical laws for minorities protection) exists so that the arvanites are simply considered Hellenic citizens. I'd like to know much more about arvanites: where are they settled?Do exist village whose inhabitants speak the arvanite language?I have been many times in Greece and I would like to meet an Arvanite: it could be interesting to talk using the Arbėrisht.
Let me know!
All the best/ju Falem/Na iste kala!
Arbėresh i Siēilies Big%20smile
Back to Top
States of Albania View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 13-May-2009
Location: Kosova
Status: Offline
Points: 0
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote States of Albania Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2009 at 15:59
 
 
     Bull shit , Skenderbeu`s army has nothing to do with greeks absolutely nothing ,
    I really dont think that greek army even existed that time .
Shqipetar
Back to Top
Seko View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
Superfluous Enabler of Sekostan

Joined: 01-Sep-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8682
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2009 at 17:23
Originally posted by States of Albania States of Albania wrote:

 
 
     Bull shit , Skenderbeu`s army has nothing to do with greeks absolutely nothing ,
    I really dont think that greek army even existed that time .
 
Sometimes a word comes along filled with such imagery that the mind runs rampant in creative thought. At other times such a word becomes so litteral in description and simple in thought that there can be no denying the emotional state of its owner and his intellectual frame of reference as well. Nonesense, baloney, bull, blather and drivel all take a back seat to the simple excretion of a prized fighter.  
 
This is where I get to tell you to kindly familiarize yourself with our famed Code of Conduct.
Copyright © 2004 Seko
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.047 seconds.