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Forum LockedSiberian-Mongolian Heritage of the Americas

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Poll Question: It is there an Siberian-Mongolian heritage in Amerindian culture?
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    Posted: 03-May-2008 at 17:43
There is some topic that fascinates me. It is known that Amerindian descend from people from North East Asia, related closely to Siberian-Mongolians. The dominant theories say the ancestors of the Amerindians crossed from Siberia to Alaska some 15.000 years ago, and spread throughout the Americas.
 
Now, what it is interesting is that still today you can find cultural similarities between peoples at both sides of the bering strait. I have found similarities all over the Americas, particularly in shamanism and arts. Recently, there has been found similarities between siberian and American languages as well.
 
Now, I wonder, it is possible that cultures both sides of the bering strait have still a diluted, but real, heritage in common? What do you think?
 
Some things in common:
 
Teepes
American
 
 
Siberian
 
 
Shaman
Mapuche
 
Siberian
Shaman Drums
Siberian
 
 
Mapuche
  
Totem Poles
 
Seattle:
 
 
Alaska: Tlingit
 
Ainu
 
Chemamul Mapuche
 
 
 
 
Chukchis people of Siberia
 
 


Edited by pinguin - 03-May-2008 at 18:00
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-May-2008 at 18:13
I believe the common heritage exists. Especially, the most notable feature is Shamanism. A lot of practices are almost the same from America to Saami Shamanism in Finnland and Norway.
There are actually researches on comparative Shamanism, performed by famous scholars like Mirca Eliade.
The relation between Altaic and American languages is also a very interesting topic which need further research.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-May-2008 at 18:20
However, I wouldn't call it "Siberian-Mongolian heritage."
Siberia is a very vague term. Mongolian is a relatively new notion only about 1000 years old. I don't think there is any Mongolian heritage in America
 Perhaps it's better to say "proto Uralo-Siberian and Proto Altaic Heritage in Americas." It's just very likely that Ameridians, Uralo-Siberians and Altaics originate from the common ancestors.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-May-2008 at 19:01
Originally posted by Sarmat12 Sarmat12 wrote:

I believe the common heritage exists. Especially, the most notable feature is Shamanism. A lot of practices are almost the same from America to Saami Shamanism in Finnland and Norway.
There are actually researches on comparative Shamanism, performed by famous scholars like Mirca Eliade.
The relation between Altaic and American languages is also a very interesting topic which need further research.
 
That's interesting. If you have some articles to post here, I will thank you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-May-2008 at 19:03
Originally posted by Sarmat12 Sarmat12 wrote:

... Perhaps it's better to say "proto Uralo-Siberian and Proto Altaic Heritage in Americas." It's just very likely that Ameridians, Uralo-Siberians and Altaics originate from the common ancestors.
 
That's interesting. Actually, there isn't a common name for the people that are supposed to be the cousins of Native Americans. The reason, I believe, is that they are a diverse group as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mixcoatl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-May-2008 at 20:14
You probably mean the Paleosiberians. But you're right in that it's a heterogeneous group, it's basically a container description for all Siberian peoples that are not Uralic, Ataic, Tunguzian or Indo-European. The Ainu in Japan and ocasionally Eskimo-Aleutian peoples are alse considered Paleosiberians.

Nonetheless it has to be noted that superfamilies of Native American languages are very fuzzy and controversial. The most notable proposal from Joseph Greenberg (made around 1980 IIRC) divides indigenous languages of the Americas into three groups: Eskimo-Aleutians, Na-Dené and Amerindian, the last one containing allmost all indigenous American languages, supposedly linked to three different migration waves. The Eskimo-Aleutian and Na-Dené language families are well established, but the Amerindian family is not accepted by the linguistic community. Since it is not likely that language was invented by paleo-indians several times independently it is likely that in the end all native american languages are related, but one should be careful with accepting proposals that are too wild.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-May-2008 at 20:29

Paleosiberian languages according to one hypo form a part of a bigger Uralo-Siberian family.

Here are the latest news from the field. And I'll post more:
 
 
Dené-Yeniseian is a proposed relationship between the Yeniseian languages of central Siberia and the Na-Dené languages of northwestern North America.

In March 2008, Edward Vajda of Western Washington University summarized ten years of research, based on verbal morphology and reconstructions of the proto-languages, that these two families are related (Vajda 2008). His paper has been favorably reviewed by several specialists of Na-Dene and Yeniseian languages, including Michael Krauss, Jeff Leer, James Kari, and Heinrich Werner, as well as a number of other respected linguists, such as Bernard Comrie, Johanna Nichols, Victor Golla, Michael Fortescue, and Eric Hamp.[1] In addition to finding the link between Yeniseian and Na-Dené compelling, the seminar came to the conclusion that the comparison "shows conclusively that Haida, sometimes associated with Na-Dene, is not related."[1]

Some of the evidence for this relationship resembles less rigorous proposals for a Dené-Caucasian language family, which adds to the proposal Burushaski and the Sino-Tibetan and North Caucasian language families. If Dené-Caucasian or a subset of Dené-Caucasian such as Karasuk or Sino-Yeniseian does prove to be valid, it is not clear that the Dené-Yeniseian families will turn out to be more closely related to each other than they are to these other putative branches.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mixcoatl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-May-2008 at 20:33
Just found this link:
http://www.uaf.edu/anlc/dy2008.html

If this is true it seems to be almost certain that Native Americans migrated to the Americans in multiple waves.

EDIT: it seems sarmat beat me


Edited by Mixcoatl - 03-May-2008 at 20:42
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote omshanti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-May-2008 at 20:39
I do not think at all that Shamanism/Animism can be used as a reference to establish any connection between any peoples. 'Shamanism', despite its possible Sanskrit>Chinese>Turkic-Tungus>Russian>German>English order of etymology, refers to similar practices and beliefs that exist throughout the world and which are likely to have been practiced by almost most of humanity in the world at their ''primitive'' stages before being replaced by organised religions.

Originally posted by Sarmat12 Sarmat12 wrote:

." It's just very likely that Ameridians, Uralo-Siberians and Altaics originate from the common ancestors.
I am quite skeptical about Uralic being included in the genetic connection proposed here. Uralic is a very controversial grouping of languages regarding both its internal structure and its external relation with the world's other major language groups. ''Uralo-Siberian'' is also a very speculative hypothetical grouping with insufficient evidence not accepted by most scholars. The traditional Uralo-Altaic connection is more and more disputed by modern scholars and it is being established that the similarities are due to contact and cultural shifts rather than to common descent as previously believed.
My own opinion is that Uralic peoples have a different origin from the rest of the peoples mentioned here, and that they simply have a very long history of sharing the arctic Eurasia and of interaction with them.
I would also add 'modern' in front of the 'Amerindians' since it is archaeologically known that a much larger physical and genetic variety existed in the peoples of the Americas before approximately 8000 years ago.





Edited by omshanti - 03-May-2008 at 23:41
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-May-2008 at 22:57
Originally posted by omshanti omshanti wrote:

I do not think at all that Shamanism/Animism can be used as a reference to establish any connection between any peoples. 'Shamanism', despite the possible Sanskrit>Chinese>Turkic-Tungus>Russian>English order in the origin of the terminology, refers to similar practices and beliefs that exist throughout the world and which are likely to have been practiced by almost most of humanity in the world at their ''primitive'' stages before being replaced by organised religions.
 
Of course animism practises are similar through out the world, but it's a fact that Siberian-Altaic Shamanism is quite similar to Native American Shamanistic practices. African, Oceanian, Australian etc. Shamanism is different.
 
"Shaman" is a Tungusic word.

Originally posted by omshanti omshanti wrote:

I am quite skeptical about Uralic being included in the genetic connection proposed here. Uralic is a very controversial grouping of languages regarding both its internal structure and its external relation with the world's other major language groups. ''Uralo-Siberian'' is also a very speculative hypothetical grouping with insufficient evidence not accepted by most scholars. The traditional Uralo-Altaic connection is more and more disputed by modern scholars and it is being established that the similarities are due to contact and cultural shifts rather than to common descent as previously believed.
My own opinion is that Uralic peoples have different origin from the rest of the peoples mentioned here, and that they simply have a very long history of sharing the arctic Eurasia and interaction with them.

Yes. But Uralo-Altaic connection is still supported by a large part of scientific community. Uralo-Siberian hypo might be not that reliable, but IMO it's quite interesting and have some proofs behind.


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Originally posted by Sarmat12 Sarmat12 wrote:

 Of course animism practises are similar through out the world, but it's a fact that Siberian-Altaic Shamanism is quite similar to Native American Shamanistic practices. African, Oceanian, Australian etc. Shamanism is different.
 
I have noticed that as well. There is something deeply similar between the shamanism Siberian-Altic and Amerindian peoples, particularly when we see less developed cultures.
 
Originally posted by Sarmat12 Sarmat12 wrote:

Yes. But Uralo-Altaic connection is still supported by a large part of scientific community. Uralo-Siberian hypo might be not that reliable, but IMO it's quite interesting and have some proofs behind.
 
Actually, is supported by genetics and archeology. Even by linguistic, although in that topic the case is not such strong.
 
 
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Originally posted by Sarmat12 Sarmat12 wrote:

Paleosiberian languages according to one hypo form a part of a bigger Uralo-Siberian family.

Here are the latest news from the field. And I'll post more:
 
 
Dené-Yeniseian is a proposed relationship between the Yeniseian languages of central Siberia and the Na-Dené languages of northwestern North America.

In March 2008, Edward Vajda of Western Washington University summarized ten years of research, based on verbal morphology and reconstructions of the proto-languages, that these two families are related (Vajda 2008). His paper has been favorably reviewed by several specialists of Na-Dene and Yeniseian languages, including Michael Krauss, Jeff Leer, James Kari, and Heinrich Werner, as well as a number of other respected linguists, such as Bernard Comrie, Johanna Nichols, Victor Golla, Michael Fortescue, and Eric Hamp.[1] In addition to finding the link between Yeniseian and Na-Dené compelling, the seminar came to the conclusion that the comparison "shows conclusively that Haida, sometimes associated with Na-Dene, is not related."[1]

Some of the evidence for this relationship resembles less rigorous proposals for a Dené-Caucasian language family, which adds to the proposal Burushaski and the Sino-Tibetan and North Caucasian language families. If Dené-Caucasian or a subset of Dené-Caucasian such as Karasuk or Sino-Yeniseian does prove to be valid, it is not clear that the Dené-Yeniseian families will turn out to be more closely related to each other than they are to these other putative branches.

 
More on the topic. This comes from National Geographic http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/pf/56527567.html
 

Siberian, Native American Languages Linked -- A First

March 26, 2008
 
A fast-dying language in remote central Siberia shares a mother tongue with dozens of Native American languages spoken thousands of miles away, new research confirms.

The finding may allow linguists to weigh in on how the Americas were first settled, according to Edward Vajda, director of the Center for East Asian Studies at Western Washington University in Bellingham.

Since at least 1923 researchers have suggested a connection exists between Asian and North American languages—but this is the first time a link has been demonstrated with established standards, said Vajda, who has studied the relationship for more than 15 years.

Previous researchers had provided lists of similar-sounding and look-alike words, but their methods were unscientific. Such similarities, Vajda noted, are likely to be dismissed as coincidence even if they represent genuine evidence.

So Vajda developed another method. "I'm providing a whole system of [similar] vocabulary and also of grammatical parallels—the way that verb prefixes are structured," he said.

Dying Tongue

His research links the Old World language family of Yeniseic in central Siberia with the Na-Dene family of languages in North America.

The Yeniseic family includes the extinct languages Yugh, Kott, Assan, Arin, and Pumpokol. Ket is the only Yeniseic language spoken today. Less than 200 speakers remain and most are over 50, according to Vajda.

"Within a couple of generations, Ket will probably become extinct," he said.

(Related news: "Languages Racing to Extinction in 5 Global 'Hotspots' [September 18, 2007].)

The Na-Dene family includes languages spoken by the broad group of Athabaskan tribes in the U.S. and Canada as well as the Tlingit and Eyak people. The last Eyak speaker died in January.

Vajda presented the findings in February at a meeting of linguists at the Alaska Native Language Center in Fairbanks.

Making the Connection

Vajda established the Yeniseic-Na-Dene link by looking for languages with a verb-prefix system similar to those in Yeniseic languages. Such prefixes are unlike any other language in North Asia.

"Only Na-Dene languages have a system of verb prefixes that very closely resemble the Yeniseic," he said.

From there, Vajda found several dozen cognates—or words in different languages that sound alike and have the same meaning.

The results dovetail with earlier work by Merritt Ruhlen, an anthropologist at Stanford University in California who Vajda said discovered the first genuine Na-Dene-Yeniseic cognates.

Vajda also showed how these cognates have sound correspondences.

"I systematically connect these structures in Yeniseic with the structures in modern Na-Dene," Vajda said.

"My comparisons aren't just lists of some look-alike words … I show there is a system behind it."

Johanna Nichols is a linguist at the University of California in Berkeley who attended the Alaska meeting where Vajda presented his research.

With the exception of the Eskimo-Aleut family that straddles the Bering Strait and Aleutian Islands, this is "the first successful demonstration of any connection between a New World language and an Old World language," Nichols said.

Mother Tongue

Vajda said his research puts linguistics on the same stage as archaeology, anthropology, and genetics when it comes to studying the history of humans in North Asia and North America.

However, the research has not revealed which language came first. Neither modern Ket nor Na-Dene languages in North America represent the mother tongue.

For example, some words in the Na-Dene family likely represent sounds of the mother tongue more closely than their Yeniseic cognates. Other words in Yeniseic, however, are probably more archaic.

Based on archaeological evidence of human migrations across the Bering land bridge, the language link may extend back at least 10,000 years.

(Explore an atlas of the human journey.)

If true, according to Vajda, this would be the oldest known demonstrated language link.

But more research is needed to determine when the languages originated and how they became a part of various cultures before such a claim will be accepted, according to UC Berkeley linguist Nichols.

"I don't think there is any reason to assume the connection is [10,000 years] old … this must surely be one late episode in a much longer and more complicated history of settlement," she said.
----------------------------
 
And this is about the Ket people, from wiki
 

Kets (Кеты in Russian) are a mongoloid Siberian people who speak the Ket language. In Imperial Russia they were called Ostyaks, without differentiating them from several other Siberian peoples. Later they became known as Yenisey ostyaks, because they lived in the middle and lower basin of the Yenisei River in the Krasnoyarsk Krai district of Russia. The modern Kets lived in the eastern middle areas of the river before being assimilated politically into the Russia or Siberia during the 17th through 19th centuries.

KET LANGUAGE
The Ket language is a language isolate like Basque in Spain, completely unrelated to neighboring languages, and contains many typologically rare linguistic features. Some linguists think that they belong to the Dene-Caucasian macro-family. Ket means "man" (plural deng "men, people"). The Kets of the Kas, Sym and Dubches rivers use jugun as a self-designation. In 1788 P.S. Pallas published the earliest observations about the Ket language in a travel diary.[5]

In 1926, there were 1,428 Kets, of which 1225 (85.8%) were native speakers of the Ket language. The 1989 census counted 1,113 ethnic Kets with only 537 (48.3%) native speakers left. Today the Ket language is still spoken by about 600 of the Ket. It is entirely different from any other language in Siberia.

 
 
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An interesting comparison of numerals from some Ameridian languages with Kazakh (modern Turkic language (most of Kazakh numerals are identical to the numerals in other Turkic languages)) and some other languages (proto-indo european and georgian) from the website of the Russian researcher, Garshin Igor Konstantinovich

 
The development of numerals in Quechua, Aymara, Mayan, Nahuatl and Turkic

 Number Hypothetical proto Uralo-Indian  Sioux Maya  Nahuatl Quechua Aymara  Kazakh Other language families
1 *hwanu * hwanu wan > wan(-ji) wan> wan (-ji) huan > xu:n huan> xu: n hanu > xemu > shimu hanu> xemu> shimu huan > hun > xu' > suq huan> hun> xu '> suq wano > waya > maya wano> waya> maya wan > wer > bir wan> wer> bir indoeuropean *(m)on * (m) on
2 *qwahya * qwahya qwah > (nu-)pa qwah> (nu-) pa qah > ka' qah> ka ' qwaha > waha(-t) qwaha> waha (-t) qway > (ish-)kay qway> (ish-) kay qwaya > paya qwaya> paya (e-)qway > eke > yeki (e-) qway> eke> yeki indoeuropean
 *dwa * dwa
3 *qwemse * qwemse chemsi > jemni > yamni chemsi> jemni> yamni qomshe > 'o:sh qomshe> 'o: sh pansi > pahi pansi> pahi kemse > kimsa kemse> kimsa quimsa womshe > ush womshe> ush georgian
 cargo. sam
4 *qwosqwe * qwosqwe twospe > topa twospe> topa kaska > kanga > ka:ng kaska> kanga> ka: ng qwasiqwi > wacikwi(-t) qwasiqwi> wacikwi (-t) qwesqwo > cusku qwesqwo> cusku quswe > pusi quswe> pusi toste > tort toste> tort
indoeuropean
 *teture * teture
5 *petke * petke tepka > zaptan tepka> zaptan pho'o > ho' pho'o> ho ' patiki > maniki patiki> maniki pechke > pichqa pechke> pichqa pheske > phesqa pheske> phesqa besk > bes besk> bes indoeuropean
 *qwenqwe * qwenqwe
6 *hwahke * hwahke hahqwe > s'akpe hahqwe> s'akpe wahke > wahq wahke> wahq wahki > na-vahi wahki> na-vahi swakte > suqta swakte> suqta swehka > sojhta swehka> sojhta hwalke > alti hwalke> alti indoeuropean
*swekse * swekse
7 *takewi * takewi cakewi > s'akowi(-n) cakewi> s'akowi (-n) thoqwe > huq (5+2) thoqwe> huq (5 +2) taciwi > daciwi taciwi> daciwi twakii > qwanki-s > qancis twakii> qwanki-s> qancis taqwekqwe > pa-qallqo (2+5) taqwekqwe> pa-qallqo (2 +5) ketwi > getti > zhetti ketwi> getti> zhetti indoeuropean
 *septm * septm
8 *qwosheqw ? * qwosheqw? shwoqwah > s'agloh(-an) shwoqwah> s'agloh (-an) woqsheq > waqshaq woqsheq> waqshaq 'woshe'w > woshiw(-i) 'woshe'w> woshiw (-i) poseq > pusaq poseq> pusaq quimsa-qallqo (3+5) > quimsaqallqo quimsa-qallqo (3 +5)> quimsaqallqo sheqwech > segiz sheqwech> segiz
indoeuropean
 *okt * okt
9 *pechunka * pechunka (ne-)pchunka (ne-) pchunka pechenk > b'eleng pechenk> b'eleng beyunga > baningi > gwanigi(-t) beyunga> baningi> gwanigi (-t) wesnka > iskuna > isqun wesnka> iskuna> isqun wachunka > llatunca wachunka> llatunca tejinga > toginja > toghiz tejinga> toginja> toghiz
10 *lashunka/chunka * lashunka / chunka weshunta > wikchemna weshunta> wikchemna laxunga > laxung laxunga> laxung la-shiwen-ko > shiwano(-t) la-shiwen-ko> shiwano (-t) shunka > cunka shunka> cunka chunka > tunca chunka> tunca chunka > jong > on chunka> jong> on




Edited by Sarmat12 - 04-May-2008 at 04:50
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2008 at 05:06
That's curious. I can see the similarities in the table there, but I can't find any with respect to the Mapuche language, of the natives of my country. It seems the relation is closer between Kazakh and Aymara than between Aymara and Mapuche. Interesting but quite strange.
Mapuche numbers:
 
1 kiñe; 2 epu; 3 küla; 4 meli; 5 kechu; 6 kayu; 7 regle; 8 pura; 9 ailla; 10 mari.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2008 at 05:55
Another interesting info from a Kazakh  site. Translated by google and not perfectly edited by me. The concusions here might be not certain, but I think all this is very interesting.
 
 
"Frederih Rerig Otto Lewis (1819-1908) born in Prussia was a lecturer in the  Royal Academy of Oriental studies of France. Rerig O. was interested not only the Asian (including the Turkic) languages, but also American Indian languages. Rerig was particularly surprised that the language of Sioux Indians has some differnces from North American Indian languages.
Based on careful comparison of vocabulary Otto Rerig came to the conclusion that "the language of Sioux Dakota can be attributed to the Ural-Altai family of languages, which covers a very broad areas with its speakes living in the vast territory and representing numerous groups peoples of Eastern Europe, Siberia and Central Asia, some of its branches are found even in the heart of Europe - this is the Hungarians. Some features of the grammar of Ural-Altaic languages were certainly are certainly identical with Sioux language. " According to him, these similarities "are striking."
Who are these Sioux Indians? Where they live, what is known about their language? Among North American Indians there is a large group of languages Hoka- Sioux, which includes also Sioux language.  Sioux is the most numerous group. In the XVII-XVIII centuries they inhabited vast territory from Missouri River and the Great Steppe of the Mississippi to the Rocky Mountains, from California to Arkansas.
Rerig discovered more than a hundred words, similar in form and substance to the words of Turkic languages. Some of them are:
Dakota Sioux Indian tribe (Dakota State) -  <>  Turkic languages 

Wakan - Chief <> Kagan - "khan"
tani - learn to make clear <> tanu - learn
Yudek - throat <> Yotyk, yotky, zhotyk - throat
Yuhep - swallowing <> Yotu, yotyp, zhutu - swallowing
Icu - to dring <> Echu, I shu - to drink 
Yasu, yaco - to sentence <> Yasau, Zhasau - to make
Yuta - eating <> Yota, iota, zhutu -to swallow 
Kapsun - to bite with teeth <> Kabu - bite
Kan - vein <>Kan - Blood
Mi - I <> Men - I
Bagana - Make mark <> Bagana - A marking sign 
sue - milk <> sut - milk
Chanke - Route, the road <> Changy - Skiing, skiing, ski road
Baha - Old man <> Baba, babay - Grandfather
Ik, ic - Two <> Ike, or - Two
.........................................
In California, names of rivers, and the U.S. in general frequent words "aha" (During) - Turkic-"aga" - "flows", "over"
When one becames acquainted with the work of Otto Reriga-Dakota Sioux language, immediately comes to mind the work of a major Soviet specialist on the history and language of the Mayan Indians YV Knorozova, "Writing the Mayan Indians."

In the first scientigic magazine publication Y. Knorozov gives his spelling of about 300 words of Mayan writing system, which struck us with presence among them of many similar, even identical words with Turkic vocabulary, both in form and substance. Most of them can easily be understand by one who knows a Turkic language.
Here are some examples of the words decrypted by Knorozov and their parallels in Turkic languages: 
Maya language - Turkic languages

Yash - a new, green <> Yash, yashel - Young, Green
K'un - Sun <> Ken, Kun - Day
Ich - Inside <> Ech, I sh - belly, inner organs 
Osh - Three <> Och, Ush - Three
Couch - Burden <> Kech, Kush - Force
K'ull - Raise your hand <> Kul, Kol - Hand
Ah-chy - Hunter <> Anchy - Hunter
Kosh - Type of bird <> Kosh, kus - Bird
Imish yashche - green fruit <> Zhimesh, zhemis - Fruit 
Ichin - Well <> Echu, I shu - to drink
Yash k'in - New sun <> Yash ken, Zhas kuna - New day, new sun
Aak - white, light <> Ak - white, light
IR - Two <> Ike, or - Two
Mole, mool - Many, gathering <> Mul, pier - abundance, many
Muluki - Rich year <> Mullyk, moldyk - Abundance
Ku - Spirit <> Kot,Kut - Spirit, soul
Cik- fence <> Chik, Shek - fence
Chul - Water <> Chul - Water (in Tuvinian language)
Tur - to Stop <> Dur - to Stop
Bin - I <> Min, Men, Bin (tur.) - I 
Imi - Women's chest <> Imu, Emu - suck chest
Chalan - Snake <> Elan, Zhylan - Snake
Ooch - Food <> Ash, Al - Food
Ba - Fish <> Balyk - Fish
Akan - Uncle <> Agha - Uncle, brother
Al - Son, a child <> Ul - Son
.........................................
In 1967 in the Swedish magazine "Ethnos" (Ethnos) was printed an article of the Orientologist of Upsala University, Stig Vikavdera entitled "Is there a connection between of Mayan languages group with Altaic family of languages."
He writes: "The first time when I had to hear how Mayan Indians speak, I was stunned with the similarity with the Turkish language, the similarity with the intonations I just heard Istanbul. This impression of course, could be misleading. But when I began to explore the Mayan language, the texts of their language, I was directly confronted with a mass of words that look exactly like  Turkish ":

Maya language <>  Turkic languages - 

Chik - to appear <> cik - to appear 
Tur - to Stop <> Dur - to Stop
Aak - to flow <> ak (ag) - to flow 
Bet - to Finish <> bit  to finish
Bllim - a sign, knowledge  Belem  - Knowledge
Boh - Naked <> Bos - Empty
Kil - come, come <> kilo, kilo - to come 
q'anil - Blood <> k 'and  - Blood
Yaklel - to burn <> Yak - to
Tas - to bring <> tasy (tashu) - to carry 
Boya - to paint a picture <> Buyau - paint, painted
......................................... 
Ancestors of Maya, Aztecs, Incas around V millennium BC began to migrate from North America to Central and South America.
Currently, the vast majority of Indians in Central and South America speak Quechua language which has connection with Hoka-Sioux .
Nowadays the language Quechua in used Peru, Ecuador, Bolivia, in some parts of Argentina, Chile and in some along with Spanish, as the second state language.
In International Congress of Orientalists, held in 1935 in Rome, Uruguayan Professor B. Ferrario made a presentation on the possible relation of Turkic language, Altaic languages with Quechua.
In Quechua -  <> In Turkic languages

Kok - the sky, sky <> Kok - the sky, the color of heaven
Wage - uncle on father's side <> Aga - uncle, the distinguished persons
tata, tayta - Father <> ada, ata, dada - Father
Misi - Cat <> Misik - Cat
As - a small, slightly <> Az - little bit
Ari - thin <> arig, ariq - thin
Qo - to drive <> qo, qomak, qu - to drive 

Quechua language also attracts the attention of French orientalist our contemporary Georg Dyumezel, who has two articles on Comparative Study of this language with Turkic. 
s 'aqla - beard <> sacal - beard
Cani - Price <> San - Number
Thugu - to spit,  <> tukur (i tuk p) - to spit 
Tawqa - a pile <> tag, tau - a mountain 
Qarwin - gullet <> Karin - stomach
Cunqa - last <> Son - the last


Edited by Sarmat12 - 04-May-2008 at 06:11
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2008 at 06:08

Garshin also writes on his site that the Brazilian researcher Liobomir Zefirov found around 170 Chuvash (the most archaic Turkic language, most likely most close to Hun language) words in Inca language and around 120 Inca words in Chuvash. Amazon river means "Ama su" - the mother of the rivers. In Turkic it's the same... 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mixcoatl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2008 at 11:29
Oh, no, comparing word lists. That's a terribly unacurate method. In any case even if the comparison were valid (it is not) it proves in no way that native americans are actually Turkish.

But even more important the list for Nahuatl is plain wrong. Counting in Nahuatl goes like this:
1 ce
2 ome
3 yei
4 nahui
5 macuilli
6 chicoace
7 chicome
8 chicuei
9 chicnahui
10 mahtlahtli
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jams Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2008 at 14:27
I voted yes, but that's because I don't think they were really separated by 15000 years. I believe ther was a fairly constant, if minimal, contact across the Bering strait, including the Inuits. The East Siberians living there today obviously have had some connection with Inuits, some of them even look like Inuits - and theres Inuits in the Chukchi lands. The northern Indians may have had contact with the Chukchi and Koryaks in later times, either directly or via Inuits the two worlds weren't completely isolated. At least that's what Chuchki legends tell (direct ciontact with Amerindians). That doesn't explain any similarity with Mapuche tradition, however. I believe it's a combination of shared origin AND constant contact.
 
Heck, I've even heard claims that Chukchi and Koryak came FROM the Americas, but I don't think so.
 
Btw - Tuva, the motherpeople according to some Turks :-)
 
 
(Why doesn't this place support embedding of youtube videos?)
 
East Siberian dance (you can hear throatsinging in the clip):
 
 
Edit: I had spelled Chukchi wrong! Anyway, here's a Chukchi woman:


Edited by Jams - 04-May-2008 at 16:30
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2008 at 14:34

Yes, the comparison of words is not a very precise method at all. The problem is there are coincidence on words at random between any language of the world. That's why we could find coincidences between Polynesian and Russian or Chinese and Mandinga. (For instance: Turkic-"aga" is close to "agua" in Spanish for water!)

In the case of Amerindian languages, it seems North American languages of the West Coast have more chance to preserve certain vestigues of ancient Siberian languages.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2008 at 14:54
Originally posted by Jams Jams wrote:

I voted yes, but that's because I don't think they were really separated by 15000 years. I believe ther was a fairly constant, if minimal, contact across the Bering strait, including the Inuits. The East Siberians living there today obviously have had some connection with Inuits, some of them even look like Inuits - and theres Inuits in the Chuchki lands. The northern Indians may have had contact with the Chuchki and Koryaks in later times, either directly or via Inuits the two worlds weren't completely isolated. At least that's what Chuchki legends tell (direct ciontact with Amerindians). That doesn't explain any similarity with Mapuche tradition, however. I believe it's a combination of shared origin AND constant contact.
 
Heck, I've even heard claims that Chuchki and Koryak came FROM the Americas, but I don't think so.
 
Btw - Tuva, the motherpeople according to some Turks :-)
 
 
(Why doesn't this place support embedding of youtube videos?)
 
That's a very interesting hypothesis. In fact, although that idea goes against orthodoxy, it is something even logical. Inuits crossed from Siberia to Alaska even in present days.
Comparing the art forms of Inuits, for instance, with Amerindians of the Northern West Coast of North America, there are stylistic similarities between them. Moreover, I have a book about ancient tales of Amerindians where the author say the same thing: contact was not broken and there was always a small, although continue flux of information between both continents.
 
 
"He who attempts to count the stars, not even knowing how to count the knots of the 'quipus'(counting string), ought to be held in derision."

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