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Forum LockedSherman vs T-34/76

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terörist

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    Posted: 30-Aug-2005 at 12:27
Who survives?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tadamson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Aug-2005 at 17:13
In Korea, and later in the Middle East,  Shermans (M4E8, Fireflys) outfought T-34/85s.  In 1967, Israieli 'SuperShermans' outfought T-55s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Aug-2005 at 04:35
Why people have the nasty habit to be OUT OF DATE?I am talking about WWII Shermans and T-34/76.It's simple.Why do you have to go in Korea and 1967,22 years ahead?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OB Kenobi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Sep-2005 at 03:21
The M4E8 and T-34/85 one on one were roughly equivalent. It is hard to say because of how many factors are involved in deciding which on is best. Just to list some of them:

1. Crew quality.
2. Commander quality.
3. Ammo quality.
4. Terrain.
5. Numbers. (battles were never equal and fair)

Btw, in both Korea and the middle-east (Yom Kippur war?), the Sherman was NOT the primary tank used, so it's hard to say how much it contributed. In Korea, the T-34/85 not only fought Shermans, it fought M46 Pattons and M26 Pershings.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tadamson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Sep-2005 at 13:11
Originally posted by Spartakus Spartakus wrote:

Why people have the nasty habit to be OUT OF DATE?I am talking about WWII Shermans and T-34/76.It's simple.Why do you have to go in Korea and 1967,22 years ahead?


You asked who survived ?  Shermans survived the war.

ps did you know that frontal hull armour on M4A3E8 Shermans was thicker than that of a Tiger-1 (and angled as well !)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Sep-2005 at 13:52
Shermans did won the war,BUT they were much more in numbers,and under the constant protection USAAF(6.000 aircrafts during 1944) and RAF.Not to mention some events,like for example where a Tiger I had destroyed 20 allied vehicles and tanks.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Sep-2005 at 13:55
For one more,iIN CASE you understandHERMAN VS T-34/76! Not any other TANK.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tadamson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Sep-2005 at 07:08
Sorry,
You want to compare Shermans with T34s

Weapon:  Soviet 76.2mm with short barrell had slightly lower muzzel velocity than US 76mm gun.  Both were deveopments of field gun/howitzers and fired a full range of high explosive, smoke, etc.. shells.  Anti Armour effects of both were comparable.  T24-85 with new gun and much better turret significntly improved the tank.  Shermans were up gunned to high pressure 77mm gun with HESH anti-tank rounds which had similar armour piercing ability to German 88mm short barel (as used by Tiger1) and long 75mm (used in Panthers) and Soviet 85mm.  The UK developed the  Firefly, an ungainly beast  that squeezed  a 17 lbd (77mm) gun into a Sherman.  Equipped with Tungsten APDS this was a more effective anti armour weapon than any other Tank gun (including German long 88mm and Soviet 100mm) 
Armour: T-34 slightly better shape at sides, Sherman (with early cast hull) poorer quality armour.  Later models significantly improved the armour.
Mobility: The Christie style suspension of the T34 gave it better road speed and cross country ability, but a very rough ride.  Early Shermans with VVSS suspension had poor cross country ability, later models with HVSS were much better.  The Soviet diesel engine gave better range and fuel consumption the Shermans petrol unit had more power.
Weaknesses:  In both tanks the weakness was the turret.  The T34-76 turret was too small, this was rectified in the T34-85.  A general lack of radios was an endemicSoviet tank problem rather than specific to the T34. The Sherman had a fast turning very sophisticated turretdesign, unfortunately this relied on hydraulic bearings.  The oil used was highly flammable and had a tendenct to creep when on fire (like napalm).  It was this (rather than petrol engines as assumed by many commentators) that caused so many Shermans to burn up.  The problem wasn't fixed until after the war.
rgds.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Sep-2005 at 11:22
Now,you're talking!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alkiviades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Sep-2005 at 12:40

Hi Spartakus

As machinery, T34/75 is considered one of the top tanks of WW2, an honor I don't think the Shermans deserve.  Don't forget, the Americans themselves had calculated that it took 6 Shermans to take down one (1) Panther, and Panther was a design spinoff of the T34s (and probably a bit better than the Soviet tank).

About the influence of both tanks in the outcome of the war... they were both produced in huge numbers (more so the T-34) and helped alot to turn the tide of war in favor of the allies.

Also, weren't Shermans (the British Firefly variety) the tanks the Brits called "the Ronsons" due to their enormously high flammability (as pointed out by Tadamson too) ??

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aghart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Oct-2005 at 18:36

Originally posted by Spartakus Spartakus wrote:

Why people have the nasty habit to be OUT OF DATE?I am talking about WWII Shermans and T-34/76.It's simple.Why do you have to go in Korea and 1967,22 years ahead?

 

Absolutley!!

The Sherman was crap!! the T34 was fantastic, disscusion over!!!

Former Tank Commander (Chieftain)& remember, Change is inevitable!!! except from vending machines
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFV Master Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Dec-2005 at 14:28
They both are horrible. The only really good tanks were the Pershings and the Panthers. All the other ones can get scrapped. It also wouldn't surprise me that a M51 Supersherman would beat a T-55 because the factors are that the Soviets may have had many great tank designs but they lacked the man power to uphold to all of their dominions needs. This eventully wore them down and made their society collapse upon itself. Not to mention the Isrealis were experimenting with the M51 SS for at least 10 years while the opponents "New" AFV's were not entirely accepted by the crews. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFV Master Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Dec-2005 at 14:33
The M51 SS is actully pretty decent by todays modern standerds. Slap on a high-velocity 105mm cannon with AP rounds as well as night vision, G.P.S., reactive armour and twin ungraded American Cadillac large block V-8 engine with twin turbo chargers and it would beat the sh*t out of most of the mobile scrap heaps the Soviets produced. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Desimir Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Sep-2006 at 06:19
Of coures that T-34 will be the winner.It was an revolutionary tank while shermans are just moving cookers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maljkovic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Sep-2006 at 15:15
Which Sherman are we talking about? Firefly? M4? Jumbo Sherman?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote freefallgunner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Mar-2007 at 10:12

Actually the Red Army used both tanks, large numbers of Shermans being supplied to them throughout the war by the US.

It is particularly interesting to note that the Germans utilised captured T-34s in significant numbers, but not Shermans which they disparagingly nicknamed "Tommy cookers."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sparten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Mar-2007 at 12:31
They did use Sherman IIRC, as battlefield ambulences.
The Germans also take vacations in Paris; especially during the periods they call "blitzkrieg".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LtCom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Mar-2007 at 12:49
No contest, the T-34 would decimate any regular Sherman.  If it was a Sherman Firefly then the T-34 wouldn't stand a chance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Mar-2007 at 12:59
I am talking about the standard M4A1 Sherman.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Onogur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Mar-2007 at 18:12
T-34 is the WWII tank, together with the Panther, but we are not comparing the last one here. So, T-34!Smile
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