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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-May-2009 at 18:02
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

 

Gee, three whole pages in Science are sufficient to revise over 50 years of research inboth history and anthropology! Amazonian settlement patterns and "economic activity"

are hardly novelties. These were documented long ago, but what is new is the "spin",

nothing else.

 

It´s not unusal in the world of science, especially in the world of archaeology, that new

findings revise old theories and old research. That is something one has to be used to

in modern research.

 

The problem with Heckenberg et al has nothing to do with "new findings" at all just new jargon.

His belated declarations on "fishing" practices as well as village patterns required no archaological

novelty since they were amply noted in the Jesuit letters of the 16th century! What his work did

was to simply validate the substance of many of the early narratives within the historical

record. The travesty comes in the adaptation of original premises to the political jargon of

the current day. Hence, "sustainable exploitation" becomes an ecological argument for the

maintaining of economic marginalization. If you do not understand what that means, it simply

stands for a rationalization envisioning the maintenace of "reservations" as ydillic edens 

[economic stasis] under the guise of ecological harmony suitable for the preservation of

European life-styles at the expense of Amerind development (e.g. let's keep our carbon imprint

and life-style by limiting the "other"). Face it, Char, the globalists are the new imperialists engaged

in a bitter intervention onto the socio-political affairs of the Americas. I wonder if you would have

supported the old South African rationalizations for the Bantustans? After all, they were developed

so as to preserve the "identity" of the hapless Blacks!

 

With respect to the Amerinds, Brazilian law and efforts at assistance have a far longer history

and go back more than half a century. Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with FUNAI

after all the "activism" displayed by the Amerinds is not a product of European do-gooders, who now

wish to hog the stage.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-May-2009 at 18:23
Jesus!
So Heckenberg is just another gringo patenting ideas of locals in his name!
This has going on before for too long.

With respect to gringo idealists, why don't they fix Europe first.

Stop killing our wales (Norway)
Stop sending us ships loaded with radioactive material (France)
Stop demanding drugs that create so many problems here!





Edited by pinguin - 18-May-2009 at 18:24
"He who attempts to count the stars, not even knowing how to count the knots of the 'quipus'(counting string), ought to be held in derision."

Inca Pachacutec (1438-1471)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-May-2009 at 19:00
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

 

The problem with Heckenberg et al has nothing to do with "new findings" at all just new jargon.

His belated declarations on "fishing" practices as well as village patterns required no archaological

novelty since they were amply noted in the Jesuit letters of the 16th century! What his work did

was to simply validate the substance of many of the early narratives within the historical

record.

 

The new research give a lot of new, more substantial information then the old chronicles can do. Now it

will be more easy to quantify things like areable land and size of settlements. It will be possible to

in detail look at agrocultural and aquacultural methods and other forms of resource management.

Such studies will also make it more easy to calculate density of population. These studies

not just adds complimentary information to the written records, they give a lot of

information by themselves that no old chronicles can give.

 

Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

 

 The travesty comes in the adaptation of original premises to the political jargon of

the current day. Hence, "sustainable exploitation" becomes an ecological argument for the

maintaining of economic marginalization. If you do not understand what that means, it simply

stands for a rationalization envisioning the maintenace of "reservations" as ydillic edens 

[economic stasis] under the guise of ecological harmony suitable for the preservation of

European life-styles at the expense of Amerind development (e.g. let's keep our carbon imprint

and life-style by limiting the "other"). Face it, Char, the globalists are the new imperialists engaged

in a bitter intervention onto the socio-political affairs of the Americas. I wonder if you would have

supported the old South African rationalizations for the Bantustans? After all, they were developed

so as to preserve the "identity" of the hapless Blacks!

 

Now it happens to be so that the indigenous peoples both in  the Xingu valley and other places

like the Raposa Serra del Sol has asked the international opinion to help them in their fight for their

 own land and their right to live in the way they themselves choose. In the latter case some of them have

even traveled to several countries in Europe for support in their case. They even visited the Pope

in Rome.

 

 

Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

 With respect to the Amerinds, Brazilian law and efforts at assistance have a far longer history

and go back more than half a century. Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with FUNAI

after all the "activism" displayed by the Amerinds is not a product of European do-gooders, who now

wish to hog the stage.

 

Since the Amerind are seeking support abroad, FUNAI obviously doesn´t do enough for

them.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-May-2009 at 19:02
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Jesus!
So Heckenberg is just another gringo patenting ideas of locals in his name!
This has going on before for too long.
With respect to gringo idealists, why don't they fix Europe first.
Stop killing our wales (Norway)
Stop sending us ships loaded with radioactive material (France)
Stop demanding drugs that create so many problems here!
 
It seems that you are out of substantial arguments. Instead you are using simple political rethorics.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-May-2009 at 19:04
Originally posted by Styrbiorn Styrbiorn wrote:

Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:


For instance, in my country we consider Sweeden a country whose main source of income is the explotation of women with the porn industry.
 

So maybe you should address your own ridiculous prejudice before spitting on those of others? Especially in this case; Latin America is quite corrupt. And so is many European states, eg Italy, most of the Balkan, and especially the prime example, Russia. I don't take a position in this case, but you are constantly attacking people's origin instead of their arguments. If a European says something slightly negative about anything Latin American, he is automatically a prejudiced racist scumbag no matter whether he is right or wrong.
 
Well said Styrbjörn.
 
Tack för de orden.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-May-2009 at 22:57
Some information about the situation of indigenous peoples:
 

Indigenous Genocide in the Amazon Region

(Acknowlegements to Survival International)

Brazil
Dramatic Video Shows Attack on Indian Village (June 2008)

"Bishop warns of genocide of uncontacted Indians"

Survival International on the threats facing the uncontacted Indians of Rio Pardo, Mato Grosso State, Brazil:

Rio Pardo: "Top officials accused of genocide of Indians"

The Tupi-kawahyb people:
"Brazil Fears an Isolated Indian Tribe Has Been Victim of Genocide," by V.A., Brazzil Mag, 1 December 2005

Piripkura people of Colniza district, Mato Grosso:
"Real Risk of Genocide for Uncontacted Tribe" (Nov. 20, 2008)

Rondônia: The Uru Eu Wau Wau people
"Massive Invasion of Isolated Indians' Land"

Akuntsu people:
"Tribe's Last Six Survivors Speak of Genocide"

"The Akuntsu's Last Dance" (narrated by Julie Christie)

Tanaru Indigenous Territory:
"Land for Last Survivor of Unknown Amazon Tribe"

Ukarangma people:
"Arara Indians under 'threat of extinction'"

"Arara Indians Fight Bullets and Bulldozers"

"Our land is now an island and we are surrounded"

Colombia
"Nukak Tribe: 'We are being wiped out'"

Peru
15 isolated or uncontacted tribes 
News stories

Ecuador
Waorani people:

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2009 at 04:31
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

Originally posted by Styrbiorn Styrbiorn wrote:

Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:


For instance, in my country we consider Sweeden a country whose main source of income is the explotation of women with the porn industry.
 

So maybe you should address your own ridiculous prejudice before spitting on those of others? Especially in this case; Latin America is quite corrupt. And so is many European states, eg Italy, most of the Balkan, and especially the prime example, Russia. I don't take a position in this case, but you are constantly attacking people's origin instead of their arguments. If a European says something slightly negative about anything Latin American, he is automatically a prejudiced racist scumbag no matter whether he is right or wrong.
 
Well said Styrbjörn.
 
Tack för de orden.
 
 
So, you are trying to say your country isn't?
 
What I don't like is Europeans put theirs noses in the internal affairs of our countries. During five centuries we have suffered first the invasion of European states, and then attacks of pirates and adventurers. Even in the middle of the 19th century European countries bombarded our ports, tried to pick Mexico under its control, and tried to made independent countries in native territories!
 
Whitout the Monroe doctrine, your countries would still fooling around here. In fact, we still have problems with Norwegian whale hunters, with British claiming the Antartida from Falklands, and with the French transporting nuclear waste in large ships!
 
 It is time Europe worries abouts its internal affairs and we worry about ours. Either corrupt or not, we don't need Europe to solve our problems.
 
And If you guys want to fool around with countries, go to Asia or Africa, to those countries were Europeans can intervine without anyone to stop them.
 
 
 
 
 


Edited by pinguin - 19-May-2009 at 04:36
"He who attempts to count the stars, not even knowing how to count the knots of the 'quipus'(counting string), ought to be held in derision."

Inca Pachacutec (1438-1471)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2009 at 08:23
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

So, you are trying to say your country isn't?

Corruption exists everywhere, but Sweden is quite free from it nowadays. We have our problems, but corruption isn't one of them. This is a fact, but it isn't related to the topic very much.
 
Quote
What I don't like is Europeans put theirs noses in the internal affairs of our countries. During five centuries we have suffered first the invasion of European states, and then attacks of pirates and adventurers. Even in the middle of the 19th century European countries bombarded our ports, tried to pick Mexico under its control, and tried to made independent countries in native territories!
This is an internet fora. Where people discuss. Stop putting your nose in Brazil's business! Wink
Quote
Whitout the Monroe doctrine, your countries would still fooling around here. In fact, we still have problems with Norwegian whale hunters, with British claiming the Antartida from Falklands, and with the French transporting nuclear waste in large ships!
 

Sweden didn't fool around in SA as far as I know. Norwegian whale hunters hunt on international waters. The whales doesn't belong to you. Antarctica doesn't belong to you anymore than it belongs to the British. The French, or any other nuclear transports, has permission of the respective governments whose territorial waters they enter.


Edit: Just for the record, I'm more on your side than on Cacharodon's on this issue. You just trigger me every time you bring up the historical "bad Europeans" card.




Edited by Styrbiorn - 19-May-2009 at 08:37
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2009 at 11:29
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

What I don't like is Europeans put theirs noses in the internal affairs of our countries. During five centuries we have suffered first the invasion of European states, and then attacks of pirates and adventurers. Even in the middle of the 19th century European countries bombarded our ports, tried to pick Mexico under its control, and tried to made independent countries in native territories!
 
Actually most of the Latino states are the results of European invasions of native peoples countries. Unfortunately many traits of European middle ages thinking has survived in Latin America which for example influences their treatment of their indigenous peoples.
 
 
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

 It is time Europe worries abouts its internal affairs and we worry about ours. Either corrupt or not, we don't need Europe to solve our problems. 
 
We live in a global world where international solidarity exists. Those countries that commits crimes against human rights must accept to be criticized. 
 
And as I said a couple of times already, it is actually the indigenous peoples themselves who asked the international community (not only Europe) for support in their fight for their right to their own land and the right to live as they themselves choose. 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2009 at 13:37
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

What I don't like is Europeans put theirs noses in the internal affairs of our countries. During five centuries we have suffered first the invasion of European states, and then attacks of pirates and adventurers. Even in the middle of the 19th century European countries bombarded our ports, tried to pick Mexico under its control, and tried to made independent countries in native territories!
 
Actually most of the Latino states are the results of European invasions of native peoples countries. Unfortunately many traits of European middle ages thinking has survived in Latin America which for example influences their treatment of their indigenous peoples.
  
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

 It is time Europe worries abouts its internal affairs and we worry about ours. Either corrupt or not, we don't need Europe to solve our problems. 
 
We live in a global world where international solidarity exists. Those countries that commits crimes against human rights must accept to be criticized. 
 
And as I said a couple of times already, it is actually the indigenous peoples themselves who asked the international community (not only Europe) for support in their fight for their right to their own land and the right to live as they themselves choose. 
 
Ignorance is bliss, Carcharodon, but blaming the Middle Ages is sheer folderol! During the colonial period, the Amerindian populations had "protected" status and the Archivo General de Indias in Sevilla has reems of manuscript folios defending the political autonomy of the Amerind cabildos. I guess Evo Morales of Bolivia must be called a Medievalist as he seeks to restore the judicial authority of community elders on the Altiplano. To be blunt, the loss of autonomy and the raping of Amerind lands was a phenomenon of the 19th century under the influence of European liberalism! If you are not familiar with the actual history, admit to such, but please do not elaborate fictions illustrating your short-sightedness so as to justify some rather outlandish claims. Did you know that under the Leyes de las Indias, Europeans were forbidden residence in Amerind pueblos? Or that current political boundaries in the Americas reflect the boundaries of the old colonial judiciary, the Audiencias. A very strong argument can be made that the destruction of Amerind autonomy and land ownership in the Americas is the direct result of Europanized politicians reflecting the prejudices of 19th century Liberalism. For example, in Mexico the disapperance of Amerind pueblos and village lands marched hand-in-hand with the Constitution of 1857 and the advent of Mexican Positivism!
 
In effect, you are simply repeating the usual bullshit propagated by the ahistorical. After all, the major decimator of Amerind populations after European contact was disease. This pandemic was ameliorated during the course of the late 16th century and reversed by the middle of the 17th, when Amerind numbers in the colonial population began to increase [colonial bureaucrats were under royal orders to conduct censuses and descriptive narratives, after all]. Think what you might, the Catholic Church within Spanish America did its utmost to preserve Amerind autonomy against rapacious peninsulares and criollos. It is only in tandem with the disestablishment of the Church during the course of the 19th and early 20th century that Amerind lands and political divisions disappear from the body polity of the Americas.
 
Now, within a contemporary context, the situation is not as simplistic as you would have it. Stasis and regression does play a part and your supposed Amerindian "leadership" is just as interested in maintaining their own authority as any greedy capitalist nationalist. The thrust for education under the impetus of FUNAI does represent a challenge to the traditionalists and their own version of paternalism. They certainly do not want to give up their "leisure" time to work the fields, after all that's woman's work! So, in a sense, your concern is more advocacy of Medieval thought than that of any contemporary politician in the Americas.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2009 at 13:50

Carch wrote: Since the Amerind are seeking support abroad, FUNAI obviously doesn´t do enough for

them.

 

Don't you read in detail the links you yourself post?

 

"FUNAI, the government’s Indian affairs department, will increase the size of the Tanaru Indigenous Territory where he lives,

after discovering he has made small gardens and hunting camps outside the area legally set aside to protect him. This move

will help ensure that 'the man in the hole' will remain isolated, as is his clear wish, and is in line with FUNAI’s policy of not

making contact with uncontacted Indians unless their lives are under threat."

 

 Land for Last Survivor of Unknown Amazon Tribe

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2009 at 13:57
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

In effect, you are simply repeating the usual bullshit propagated by the ahistorical. After all, the major decimator of Amerind populations after European contact was disease. This pandemic was ameliorated during the course of the late 16th century and reversed by the middle of the 17th, when Amerind numbers in the colonial population began to increase [colonial bureaucrats were under royal orders to conduct censuses and descriptive narratives, after all]. Think what you might, the Catholic Church within Spanish America did its utmost to preserve Amerind autonomy against rapacious peninsulares and criollos. It is only in tandem with the disestablishment of the Church during the course of the 19th and early 20th century that Amerind lands and political divisions disappear from the body polity of the Americas. 
 
 
Unfortunately those who really try to defend the indigenous people are a minority in many Latin American. To many people have strong prejudice against them and just think they are a hindrance for development.
And many times the church and it´s missionaires had as it´s only goal to christianize the natives before they became extinct or to assimilate them and extinguish their culture.
And disese, land robbery, war and enslavement where all factors that contributed to the extermination of many indigenous peoples.
 
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

  Stasis and regression does play a part and your supposed Amerindian "leadership" is just as interested in maintaining their own authority as any greedy capitalist nationalist. The thrust for education under the impetus of FUNAI does represent a challenge to the traditionalists and their own version of paternalism. They certainly do not want to give up their "leisure" time to work the fields, after all that's woman's work! So, in a sense, your concern is more advocacy of Medieval thought than that of any contemporary politician in the Americas.
 
It seems that you show the same prejudice against the indigenous peoples that are usual in Latin America. Some of the leaders and spokespersons of indigenous peoples are actually themselves women who defend their people against greedy capitalists and landrobbers. One of these women leaders can be seen here:
 
 
 
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Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

"FUNAI, the government’s Indian affairs department, will increase the size of the Tanaru Indigenous Territory where he lives,

after discovering he has made small gardens and hunting camps outside the area legally set aside to protect him. This move

will help ensure that 'the man in the hole' will remain isolated, as is his clear wish, and is in line with FUNAI’s policy of not

making contact with uncontacted Indians unless their lives are under threat."

 

Many times FUNAI and other authorities in Brazil act first after international pressure

and opinion.

And still they don´t do enough in all cases since indigenous peolples still have to go on seeking

international support, as in the case of the Xingu river dam.

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Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

Carch wrote: Since the Amerind are seeking support abroad, FUNAI obviously doesn´t do enough for

them.

 

Don't you read in detail the links you yourself post?

 

"FUNAI, the government’s Indian affairs department, will increase the size of the Tanaru Indigenous Territory where he lives,

after discovering he has made small gardens and hunting camps outside the area legally set aside to protect him. This move

will help ensure that 'the man in the hole' will remain isolated, as is his clear wish, and is in line with FUNAI’s policy of not

making contact with uncontacted Indians unless their lives are under threat."

 

 Land for Last Survivor of Unknown Amazon Tribe

 

 

I have notice it. It seems this guy simply ignores your posts.

You know, it is the idea that Brazil is a wild land without a country. They forget these events happens in Brazilian territories and also forget that Brazilians are working on it already.

 

 

"He who attempts to count the stars, not even knowing how to count the knots of the 'quipus'(counting string), ought to be held in derision."

Inca Pachacutec (1438-1471)
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Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

 You know, it is the idea that Brazil is a wild land without a country.

They forget these events happens in Brazilian territories and also forget that Brazilians

are working on it already. 

Maybe they are working on it but still they need som input and encouragement from

international opinion.

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Carch wrote: Many times FUNAI and other authorities in Brazil act first after international pressure

and opinion.And still they don´t do enough in all cases since indigenous peolples still have to go on seeking

international support, as in the case of the Xingu river dam.

 

Familiarize yourself with the works of the Villas Boas brothers in the early 20th century and the actual history of

FUNAI before making such unsubstantiated statements. Long before any European ever gave thought to the

Amazonian Amerind and the pressures of modernization, Brazilian protective legislation was "on the books

so to speak.

 

Or perhaps you are interested in protecting infanticide as a cultural right among the "indigenous peoples"?

http://vozpelavida-midia.blogspot.com/

 

Ecology polemicists are "using" the Amerind for their own debates, an abuse no less egregious than any you

yourself impose onto the past of the Americas. In a way, you seek to perpetuate the myth of "helpless

aborigines" and contradict this very valid statement by Professor Hahner on Brazil:

 

Today we have not just histories of Indians, but Indian histories, as some Indian groups

have gradually overcome their longstanding marginalization from Portuguese literacy.

Certainly the supposition that modern indigenous South Americans embody archetypes

of changeless culture--an idea still found in popular and semi-scholarly literature--should

no longer be accepted. Brazil's indigenes cannot be considered people outside of time,

or people without history.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2009 at 15:00
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

Familiarize yourself with the works of the Villas Boas brothers in the early 20th century and the actual history of

FUNAI before making such unsubstantiated statements. Long before any European ever gave thought to the

Amazonian Amerind and the pressures of modernization, Brazilian protective legislation was "on the books

so to speak.

 

Unfortunately not all Brasilians follow in the footsteps of the Villas Boas Brothers. Thats why the Indigenous peoples

need support from the international community.

Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

Or perhaps you are interested in protecting infanticide as a cultural right among the "indigenous peoples"?

http://vozpelavida-midia.blogspot.com/ 

 

Noone defends infanticide. It´s a typical argument defending exploitation of the indigenous peoples by

refering to such things.

Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

 

Today we have not just histories of Indians, but Indian histories, as some Indian groups

have gradually overcome their longstanding marginalization from Portuguese literacy.

Certainly the supposition that modern indigenous South Americans embody archetypes

of changeless culture--an idea still found in popular and semi-scholarly literature--should

no longer be accepted. Brazil's indigenes cannot be considered people outside of time,

or people without history.

 

Yes literacy is becoming more common in indigenous peoples, that is why they can make their voices heard

and reach out for international support. The exploitation and land robbery cannot be kept a

secret anymore.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2009 at 15:08
Many times the talk of "assimilating" indigenous peoles is just a smoke screen in order to rob them of their land and send them away to some slum somewhere.
 
Maybe this is the things that the indigenous peoples are supposed to be assimilated to:
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2009 at 15:50
Spare us the rhetorical subterfuge, Carcharodon. It was the Brazilian government itself that established the community land titles for the Amazonian Amerinds and there is quite a difference between integration and your "assimilation". Brazilian realities are much more complex than you would have it, and the agenda of the internationalists you so espouse are premised not only on their own financial interests but squarely also on a chauvinism that denies the complexity. Brazil is not deep space and "non-intervention is the prime directive for a science fiction fantasy! The provision of health care, education, and yes, the eradication of traditional practices inimical to the principles of human rights is one of the charges held dear by FUNAI. Have you ever heard of Napoleon Chagnon and his socio-biological constructs premised upon the Yanomamo? In a sense you are displaying his hubris and perpetuating the creation of wild preserves where time stands still and "primitivism" is a laboratory for anthropological fancies.
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Baron
Baron


Joined: 04-May-2007
Location: Sweden
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Points: 479
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2009 at 16:55
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

Spare us the rhetorical subterfuge, Carcharodon. It was the Brazilian government itself that established the community land titles for the Amazonian Amerinds and there is quite a difference between integration and your "assimilation". Brazilian realities are much more complex than you would have it, and the agenda of the internationalists you so espouse are premised not only on their own financial interests but squarely also on a chauvinism that denies the complexity.
 
The problem is that Brazils authorities have difficulties stemming the interests of capitalist exploiters and greedy landrobbers. On top of that there are deeply rooted problems with corruption inside those authorities themselves.
International attention are many times a good way of creating the incentive for improvements.
 
 
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

Brazil is not deep space and "non-intervention is the prime directive for a science fiction fantasy! The provision of health care, education, and yes, the eradication of traditional practices inimical to the principles of human rights is one of the charges held dear by FUNAI. Have you ever heard of Napoleon Chagnon and his socio-biological constructs premised upon the Yanomamo? In a sense you are displaying his hubris and perpetuating the creation of wild preserves where time stands still and "primitivism" is a laboratory for anthropological fancies.
 
FUNAIs intention is good but they have to fight against a lot of prejudice and greed in Brazil, so a bit of international support is always needed. If everything was 100% than the indigenous communities wouldn´t have to ask for international support.
 
Noone says that the indigenous peoples shall not have education or health care. Read for examples the writings of Pierlângela Nascimento da Cunha, representant of the Wapichana  people, and also representative of Organizzazione dei Professori indigeni di Roraima, who strongly stresses the importance of education among her people and other Indigenous groups.
 
And today not many anthropologists support the ideas or actions of Chagnon. Especially not after the publishing of Patrick Tierney's book "Darkness in El Dorado".
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